Winter tyres are famously not very good in the wet. The EU now makes tyre manufacturers put efficiency ratings on tyres. The Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons that Haggis Trap is recommending actually are rated at E (i.e. rubbish - relatively speaking) in the wet.
This is certainly NOT what we have found, the vectors are far superior to summer tyres in the wet, even when new, the summer tyres can be felt to aquaplane in deepish puddles, the vectors appear to slice straight through standing water
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with any all season M&S rated tyre you sacrifice some grip in the wet for improved cold weather performance.
How do you come to this conclusion?, the greater number of cuts in the tread pattern allows the water to escape, allowing the tyre to make contact with the road surface surely?, the reason that tyres slip on ice is the film of water that forms between the tyre and the ice acting as a lubricant, the tread pattern of a winter tyre allows this water to escape more easily, the same is true on wet tarmac.
I have winter tyres on my Transit all year round, on wet greasy roads, the summer tyres would spin very easily, the winter tyres do not spin as easily at any time of year.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I too wonder about these official tyre ratings. For the past 10 years we have fitted winter tyres and in every case I am convinced that they have better braking in the wet than summer tyres and are no worse in the dry. I have to admit this is not backed up by any scientific testing apart from the fact the tyres, all from the same price sector (what I would call "low premium" such as Goodyear Eagle Ultra, Vredestiein Snowtrac 2 & 3, Kleber (Michelin) Krisalp, Yokohama W Drive0 all about £40 - £50 a tyre for 195-65-15) were all fitted to the same model of car and tested on the same road by the same people. At around 50 or 60 MPH we found it very difficult to hit the brakes hard enough to make the winter tyres lock / ABS start to react and you just stopped. With summer tyres, Uniroyals and Michelins, lock up came much earlier and overall stopping distance was greater. I appreciate these are only our experiences but generally we now run out the winter tyres in the summer and are quite happy to do so. The only time I think you feel a difference is on very "enthusiastic" cornering when at a certain point you almost feel as if the tyres have displaced laterally in one movement. We put this down increased flexibility in the sidewalls of winter tyres, but again it's only personal experience with a limited range of vehicle and tyres. It does give you a good indication you are probably going too fast though !
We also fitted winter tyres to our trucks and noticed that the spray pattern in the wet is very different with the winter tyres, the bulk of the water seems to be ejected sideways from the contact area of the tyre whereas with "ordinary" tyres the water seems to "cling" more to the tyre and be spun off.
Anyway that's my unscientific contribution, I hope it's helpful.
Deleted double post. Happens every time lately. My fault ?
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 6-10-13 10:37; edited 1 time in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I have all season Cargo Vector 2s on my van and they grip really well in the wet, much better than the G28s that were on it previously, and particularly on grass/muddy car parks. I haven't has a chance to drive on snow here with them yet.
The Nokians on my car were the higher speed rated version with stiffer sidewalls which do make a difference if you are going to be throwing it around the bends.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
YES........Forget the snow aspect, the breaking distance of standard tyres used in the uk is reduced by something like 30 to 40 metres when the temperature reaches 5 degress , never mind colder, winter tyres give you close to the breaking disatance that you get in summer, ...
After all it is free
After all it is free
Almost everyone accepts there is a massive difference in grip levels between 'summer' and winter tyres on snow, There are plenty of videos like
...and not many now doubt that winter tyres offer better grip levels in the cold, regardless of wet or dry conditions BUT some (even on here!) question the efficacy of winter tyres in mild but wet conditions. Here are a couple of videos (AutoExpress & AutoCar) showing winter tyres in very wet conditions AutoExpress (starting at about 3:15) and AutoCar
edit: trying to get linky wotsits to work
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
^ nice video.
but completely misses the point of the original post that "winter tyres" are not just for "snow"
despite what people think in the UK
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'd hazzard a guess that most folks think winter tyres have studs on them and consequently ignore them as totally irrelevant.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
mountainaddict, Studded tyres are illegal in some places, including the UK...they mash up the tarmac when it's not snowy.
I'm no scientist but I do know that our Citroen DS3 feels a much safer place to be when wearing its winter tyres. Some of our rural roads don't get any gritting. We can get out when our neighbours struggle, and our son doesn't miss school! Steering, traction, grip, cornering , just everything is better, noise levels are higher on dryer roads though. We have a set of additional additional steel wheels, got them with tyres from Germany by post (yes really) for barely more than buying tyres only here in UK, and swap them over once it starts getting cold..November? and this year took them off mid April. As we do a big mileage and are keeping the car we felt it was worth the investment.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
altis, yep - that's what everyone I speak to thinks!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Haggis_Trap wrote:
^ nice video.
but completely misses the point of the original post that "winter tyres" are not just for "snow"
despite what people think in the UK
Not sure what you mean. The first two videos were intended to show what people generally already accept - ie. winter tyres' far superior performance on snow. But the second two videos were intended to demonstrate what many still don't accept - the superior performance of winter tyres in wet conditions
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
^ the key point is that winter tyres also have far superior performance in the cold (even if there is no snow on the ground).
some stopping distances here.
good quality summer tyres will be marginally better when aqua planning but much worse in the cold & snow / ice.
this is partly because summer tyres tend to have lateral tread (around the tyre) whilst winters have horizontal tread (across the tyre).
winter tyre will perform well in most conditions, and excel in the cold, but may wear faster due to the different compound used.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Haggis_Trap,
You seem to be reinforcing my own points - for which I thank you
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Red Leon,
I can't quite get my head around the last, autocar, video. The winter tyres are improving the handling and cornering speed in the wet, presumably by clearing the water faster than the summer tyres and getting grip from the underlying surface but in straight line braking the opposite happens
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I've talked quite a few customers into fitting winter tyres. Nearly all were skeptical. None were disappointed.
Best was a taxi driver who took a lot of convincing that it would be worth his while. He turned up one Sat' morning with a case of beer for me after he'd made a fortune the Friday night before when it snowed and he was the only taxi still able to work.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
I can't quite get my head around the last, autocar, video. The winter tyres are improving the handling and cornering speed in the wet, presumably by clearing the water faster than the summer tyres and getting grip from the underlying surface but in straight line braking the opposite happens
I wonder if the more flexible tread pattern of the winter tyres, fools the ABS into thinking it's locked up?
I've talked quite a few customers into fitting winter tyres. Nearly all were skeptical. None were disappointed.
Best was a taxi driver who took a lot of convincing that it would be worth his while. He turned up one Sat' morning with a case of beer for me after he'd made a fortune the Friday night before when it snowed and he was the only taxi still able to work.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Flaine skier wrote:
... and once you get under 6mm of tread you might as well wear them down to 2mm in the summer before changing them.
That's my approach too.
Flaine skier wrote:
Re cost, it woks out cheaper, because a set of winter tyres (including steel rims) is less than the cost of a set of summer tyres. So there is some initial outlay, but from then on you are saving money because you are using cheaper tyres 6 months of the year.
Mmm, true for my first venture with a 'cheap' winter tyre but my Vredesteins were a bit more than my summer set. (Worth every penny when they get you up a dark mountain road in an inch of snow without faffing with chains). Completely agree with the general argument though, after the initial outlay it's not an added expense, because you're not wearing out your summer tyres while using the winters.
Seems to me all the people who claim them to be pointless in the UK are the people who've never actually tried, and those that do try don't look back.
My wife always makes out I'm wasting time swapping tyres when 'no one else does', but even she had to admit she felt much more in control on the road last winter as a result. Think it's having steel rims that gets to her
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