The Webasto is a diesel cab heater, very effective.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Harry Flashman, You can fit a second battery with a split charge, I went for 2 Numax 4x4 batteries and an X-Engineering split charge, mainly for winch duties, but it starts instantaneously no matter what the weather.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Winter tyres a must-we had a Nissan Navara Double cab diesel last season. Never failed to start despite the cold. As you know-it snowed, lots and regularly. I never put the snow chains on. Winter tyres just make driving easy. Don't kid yourself that anything else will do. It's true-you don't need a 4WD-but we had the car for its enormous luggage capacity. Just a bit of a pain to park!
Go to a local resort garage or petrol station and buy Wynns Diesel Additive. You chuck a few ml in your fuel tank each fill up and it stops the diesel freezing.
Other than buying snow tyres and replacing a crap battery I've never done anything else to one of my cars during a winter season so don't worry too much about 'winterising'.
Oh, re tyres; I've driven up a snowy piste with mud tyres, they're great. But driving down a road with hairpin bends is terrifying... Definitely get proper snow rated ones.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Spyderman wrote:
The Webasto is a diesel cab heater, very effective.
Talked to someone who had a Webasto diesel cab heater. They said it was great for warming up the car but it was a big drain on the battery as the internal ventilation fans run while the alternator is not charging the battery. If you use it for 30 mins you need to drive for approx the same time to recharge the battery - so only good if you are not doing a short journey every day. A second battery would help. Not sure but it may even help the diesel waxing problem if the Webasto heater can run on colder diesel and so pulls the warmer diesel from the tank and/or the diesel filter is close enough to the engine to be warmed by it.
Never made any winter modifications to my TDI200 disco I used to drive - even ran it on veg oil for all log distance stuff even in the dead of winter (2 tanks + heated fuel system on the veg)
Worked all the time..
Currently run a VWT4, again no winter mods - have run it at -25C on veg !
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Given the kind of cost involved in replacing a full set of winter tyres, additional heaters, and at the end of it you've got a fairly agricultural vehicle that isn't ideal for long distance driving to get there and get around the place in comfort, I'd just buy the petrol Subaru Legacy with winter tyres already fitted that you will find for about £1K, and sell it when you get back. Plus it won't be the easiest car on earth to steal (which a defender left unattended overnight on the road will be) and it will be comfortable for motorway driving there and back, getting around will be easy, and it might cost you total £100 for the additional wear and tear when you get back.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Never made any winter modifications to my TDI200 disco I used to drive - even ran it on veg oil for all log distance stuff even in the dead of winter (2 tanks + heated fuel system on the veg)
Worked all the time..
Currently run a VWT4, again no winter mods - have run it at -25C on veg !
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Perty wrote:
Winter tyres a must-we had a Nissan Navara Double cab diesel last season. Never failed to start despite the cold. As you know-it snowed, lots and regularly. I never put the snow chains on. Winter tyres just make driving easy. Don't kid yourself that anything else will do. It's true-you don't need a 4WD-but we had the car for its enormous luggage capacity. Just a bit of a pain to park!
He aint kidding himself . "All Terrain" tyres a la BF goodrich and others are semi off road chunky , deep threaded tyres that are rated for snow ice and mountain roads (to summarise), and are as good as any non-studded snow tyre out there, the have the added benefit of durability for both on and off road year round. There is a difference between these and "winter tyres".
For someone with a landy that currently runs mud tyres, (meaning does some off road stuff), an AT replacement for winter driving makes most sense
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Another 'disposable season car' option would be a Jap import 4x4 from the north of Japan. Was speaking to an importer once who explained that many of them come over on the boat with double batteries, heated windscreens and a full set of snow tyres on rims in the boot.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
barry, your post above is a little confusing. You seem to be agreeing with Perty that winter tyres are a must, then you suggest that the Goodrich AT tyres are good enough. AFAIK they are not winter tyres.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
albinomountainbadger, or take the opportunity to buy the Mazda Bongo that everybody on earth wants to own anyhow Petrol, 4 x 4, loads of room for everything you could ever need, Mazda reliability. And probably winter tyres if you buy carefully.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
barry, m+s and AT do not mean snow.
Mistress Panda, I've just flicked over the TV and discovered an adapted Peugeot 406 also makes an ideal season run-around http://youtube.com/v/rCwr45P5qtE (seems to be a ridiculous third edition of the Taxi series, with a scene in Tignes).
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Change the glow plug and fuel filter before you. The fuel filter removes condensation/moisture from the diesel. The filter will freeze ages before the diesel starts waxing. Fill the tank and run it to near empty before you change the filter. This will get any condensation out of the tank.
We were in the states once where it was -30 every night. All the locals just put a couple litres of unleaded in their pickups before topping up with diesel.
Take matches.....and a newspaper - if your diesel waxes you can unwax it by lighting sheets of newspaper under the tank
harrim51, Bet he has brown streaks on his underwear
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
foxtrotzulu wrote:
barry, your post above is a little confusing. You seem to be agreeing with Perty that winter tyres are a must, then you suggest that the Goodrich AT tyres are good enough. AFAIK they are not winter tyres.
Not as youd understand as winter tyres for normal cars but thet are extreme condition tyres and so bang up to the job - i live in a snowy, mountainous place in winter, have driven both extensively - ATs just as good and are/can be considered winter tyres based on their rating. I'm simply saying they are every bit as good as what you u derstand to be "winter tyres". Shouldnt be confusing - i aint saying whack them on your family saloon but i have a big 4x4 which benefits from ATs year round so they are the obvious choice.
^ so lets agree - either winter tyres or good ATs are essential!!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
barry, Sorry, but I totally disagree with you, A/T are not a substitute for winter tyres on a 4x4. The rubber compound is totally different, unless the tyre carries the "snowflake" symbol it is not a winter tyre. A/T are better than mud terrain in winter, but still a poor substitute for proper winter rubber. I run Pirelli Ice & Snow when things get icy & snowy, very effective, to the point that I towed a Police Shogun equipped with BFG A/T tyres up an ice and snow covered hill that he couldn't get up, plus rescuing 3 stranded vehicles on the same hill. Police commendation to prove it.
Winter Tyres. I drive a Disco around the Lake District and whilst it is very capable on other tyres, the difference with proper Winter tyres is noticeable. Make sure they have the 'snowflake' symbol on and are not just being sold as Winter tyres when really they aren't. I use Pirelli Scorpions, but proper Winter tyres are essential.
Apart from that, additive for diesel is good, also extra antifreeze (a greater concentration than for the UK) and screenwash antifreeze. Don't let the wipers freeze to the screen. I haven't come across silicone blades but will be checking them out.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Spyderman You can get them now with said snowflake symbol
Have i not been driving in the snow all these years? Recovering similar vehicles as yourself? All on ATs. It aint the rubber compound that make them good (which i accept make the difference on orthodox or "authentic" winters, its more the deepand agressive thread pattern - granted the extra ground clearence helps.
I dont want any more nerdy debates here - i know ATswork brilliantly in snow and winter conditions and would be a perfect for the OP car, especially given its non-winter use
After all it is free
After all it is free
albinomountainbadger, i know that but a snowflake in a mountain does
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All I can say is that when I was commuting daily from Pralognan to Méribel via La Tania (only mention that as those who know it will recognise two awful roads on that route), I changed from chunky M+S labelled General Grabber ATs to Continental WinterContact proper 'SUV' (ie road only, not chunky) snow tyres on a fairly competent 4x4 (Mitsubishi Shogun Sport). I wasn't expecting much difference but it was considerable in the corners. I'll always go with proper snow tyres now.
Must say I felt quite let down by the Pirelli Scorpion Snow + Ice tyres though, they don't have grooves on the tread as you'd expect and I seem to get better traction from a much cheaper set which does (BFG Winter Slalom KSI).
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 3-09-13 8:30; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
barry, Deep agressive tread pattern is as much use as a chocolate fireguard on hard compacted snow and ice, it's the rubber compound that gives the grip. The OP is going to spend much of the winter in the Alps, so where do you get the non-winter use from?
It's not a nerdy debate, it's a fact, winter tyres work better than A/T tyres n winter conditions.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
barry,
Without the snowflake = In snow they will be great but on ice they will struggle to keep grip / traction so braking & cornering will be a challenge. There's an exit from the West Autobahn here in Vienna where it is common for the cars tp carry too much speed - every year I see large SUV's and rear wheel drive cars at the side of the road smashed up. They take too much speed into the exit slip road which curves back on itself, then they can't take the speed out and keep the car on the road.
Here's a 4x4 test (in German from the Austrian AA Equivalent) comparing proper 4x4 winter tyres against a typical SUV tyre with M&S markings (it gets one star and is way off the performance of the others)
The test echoes albinomountainbadger's experiences with SUV winter tyres.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Allright guys i'm out, my experience in winter conditions is more than the average bear, but if people dont want to listen I wont offer it. Good luck OP and happy motoring everyone
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
barry,
With all due respect we did listen, we and the Automobile Associations just disagree. Happy motoring
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
barry, I don't think anyone is saying M+S rated AT tyres aren't good, just disagreeing with your suggestion that they are as good as snow tyres.
I recall reading that German law requires appropriate tyres for the winter, and that an M+S tyre is adequate for the law. The German AA, however, strongly suggests people go for proper snow tyres with the mountain peak symbol, and they also more than double the minimum tread depth recommendation.
In the past I did two seasons in a 4x4 on ATs and I've even done two seasons in a Civic Type-R on Toyo slicks. I went off the road or into walls perhaps four or five times with these combos. Obviously the Toyo slicks were useless (they even spun inside the snowchains when fitted) but I actually had more accidents with the ATs on the 4x4. Worrying thing about the ATs was that although great at going forwards in deep snow, they lacked any grip sideways in thin snow (think recently ploughed road) or on ice, so the slightest tap of a kerb or vicious pothole with a rear wheel would send all two tonnes of the car into a spin.
Perhaps you have a clever car with computers monitoring traction and the like so it's less important, perhaps you only drive in deep snow or on flat surfaces. Horses for courses an all that. I'm pretty sure Land Rover never got round to putting computers in the Defender though, and I've no idea if the OP will live in the centre of town or down a goat track 15kms out, so the best general advice for avoiding walls and cliffs is to get proper snow tyres...
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 3-09-13 9:22; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Yes, just because an SUV can tow another vehicle out of deep snow in a straight line doesn't mean it's the ultimate vehicle for winter use. Once witnessed an SUV lose it very easily on a curved road and end up on it's side while other cars with proper winter tyres just held the road no problem.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
It all comes down to lack of knowledge and understanding. I was out in my Landy a couple of years ago during some seriously snowy weather rescuing people as normal. I had my winter tyres fitted, I was stopped by the roadside talking to a Megane driver who'd Imbedded his car into a hedge having skidded on the snow covered ice. Along came a Discovery, he stopped, looked at my tyres and said to me you won't tow him using those tyres you want some like mine pointing to his wheels, I looked at them and they were remould mud terrains. I laughed at him and said they were useless in these conditions unless he stuck to driving in soft snow only and that mine were proper winter tyres. He wouldn't have any of it, he'd never heard of winter tyres and his were best.
Don't die of ignorance was my parting remake.
barry, It's unfortunate that you're the one that doesn't want to listen and are relying on your own personal experiences only rather than the overwhelming factual truth.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I'd also note that the difference in performance between brands can be immense.
Our previous car sat on Dunlop Grantrek winter tyres and was nearly unshakeable. It had to be really unpleasant/odd for you to not think that it was just driving on nice dry surface (and our house is up a fairly steep gradient). I think I only noticed any loss of control once in 4 winters.
The current one (not quite the same model but no major difference that I'm aware of that would affect handling dynamics) is on similar spec'ed Bridgestones (admittedly slightly wider at 235/65/18 vs 225/65/1 and the difference in performance is extraordinary. The Bridgestones are rubbish, particularly in loose or fresh snow - situations which the Dunlops would have lapped up.
Worth mentioning here that Hampshire Police as of 2 years ago fit all their BMW's with winter tyres each Autumn as a matter of course.
Next time our village Bobby pops in I'll have a look at his X5 and see which tyre make they use.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
albinomountainbadger wrote:
barry, I don't think anyone is saying M+S rated AT tyres aren't good, just disagreeing with your suggestion that they are as good as snow tyres.
I Worrying thing about the ATs was that although great at going forwards in deep snow, they lacked any grip sideways in thin snow (think recently ploughed road) or on ice, so the slightest tap of a kerb or vicious pothole with a rear wheel would send all two tonnes of the car into a spin.
Perhaps you have a clever car with computers monitoring traction and the like so it's less important, perhaps you only drive in deep snow or on flat surfaces. Horses for courses an all that. I'm pretty sure Land Rover never got round to putting computers in the Defender though, and I've no idea if the OP will live in the centre of town or down a goat track 15kms out, so the best general advice for avoiding walls and cliffs is to get proper snow tyres...
Chaps, thank you for interesting debate. It is true that in the Alps, most of the time I will be looking at thin/compacted snow or ice, midwinter - not deep snow.
I contacted a tyre specialist yesterday. They said that General Grabber AT tyre would be the best as a year-round compromise (in a thinner width, to cut down through the surface of said thin snow to get traction against tarmac), but said a snow tyre would be better due to the softer compound. He then stated as the Defender has no driver aids or ABS, a snow tyre would be better for midwinter in the Alps. More compromised when conditions were fine, but an order of magnitude safer when there was thin snow/ice about, especially when climbing, descending, or in corners. Which is pretty much 90% of Alpine roads.
Shame, as this is a pricey option, as I can't run them all year round. But I would rather spend a few hundred on tyres than a few thousand on new bodywork or worse, risk injuring someone else.
Suggestions earlier in the thread about buying a £1000 left hand drive Subaru Legacy or similar with ABS and decent tyres for the season are actually beginning to look like a good idea! Defender could remain a shooting/photography truck, not a snow mobile. By the time all the necessary mods are done (decent security as will be parked on the street, winter tyres, big battery) I'll be looking at £2k which I will never see on resale. That buys me lots of budget 4x4 and some snow chains...
This is very annoying. I want to take the Landy with me, because it is awesome.
I nearly lost my defender on a corner in snow , the semi off road tyres were great in a straight line, but woeful on compressed snow in a bend. I slowed down to a crawl there after, overconfidence and stupidity.
It was the slowest over steer correct I had ever done.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Harry Flashman wrote:
He then stated as the Defender has no driver aids or ABS,
Wrong, ABS and Traction Control were available on Defender from the TD5 model onwards.
Winter tyres aren't just for snow & ice, they're for when temperatures drop below 7C, they'll outperform an A/T all season tyre on dry cold tarmac. On a vehicle like a Defender they'll be fine for all year round use also, the loss in performance in the summer will be negligible.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 3-09-13 10:16; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
lots of budget 4x4
and, don't forget, you don't need 4 x 4. The money would go even further if you drop the 4 x 4 requirement. and on your own you don't need a car as big as a Legacy either. (It's not really relevant but I had a Legacy years ago and it was awful. Friday afternoon car. Had constant problems with occasional loss of power which no number of Subaru main dealers and new carburetors could ever solve).
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pam w, I have a Legacy Boxer Diesel estate and it's been perfect, great car, reliable, superb handling, comfortable, lots of toys, economical, can't fault it.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Another Subaru 4x4 fan here, petrol Impreza estate. Comfy and spacious on the drive down, impeccable once over there. Not found anything it won't go up yet, pulled other cars back onto the Meribel road several times last season and plenty of room in the back for picking up anyone whose car can't make it up. It has touched on the hump of ice buildup you get if you've got an off-road parking space due to the snowplough once or twice though, so maybe a Legacy or Forester would be better - bigger though.
A couple of things that haven't been discussed yet that I think are worth a mention - firstly some 4x4s have low ratio gearboxes. Not sure this is entirely necessary for normal driving, but very useful for manouvering in poorly cleared driveways and outdoor parking spots where you get all kinds of ice ridges and deep snow. Hardly extreme off-roading, but useful to have the control.
Secondly, not sure it applies to your defender, but air conditioning systems leak coolant - apparently at the rate of 10% per year. When they do, not only is the aircon less efficient, but the system also starts to put out wet air rather than dry. This causes fogging issues. Well worth getting it seen to before you head over.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Petrol, 4 x 4, loads of room for everything you could ever need, Mazda reliability. And probably winter tyres if you buy carefully.
and the difference in performance is extraordinary. The Bridgestones are rubbish, particularly in loose or fresh snow - situations which the Dunlops would have lapped up.