 Poster: A snowHead
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I did one euro ski trip where we went to 4 resorts in 4 weeks across Switzerland (engleberg), Austria (st anton) and then st foy and val (france). I think I spent the most money in St Anton, because it was more reasonably priced for apres-beers (the time before kids) and on mountain lunches. I resent paying too much so when prices are what I think are reasonable I'll end up spending more. Though it's not just the prices, it's what's available and in what atmosphere as well. I know st anton isn't the cheap in austrian terms but was still reasonable compared with val and engelberg.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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waynos, which is ironic as the bar makes more money if you buy 5 beers with a 3 euro profit on each rather than 3 beers with a 4 euro profit etc....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FRANCE SKI PRICES
Flights – very affordable / convenient
Transfers – reasonable
Accommodation – excellent range of budget apartment options unmatched elsewhere in Alps
Lift passes – expensive but no more expensive than elsewhere in Alps / Pyrenees / Balkans / North America when you consider quantity / quality of terrain, in fact North America is even more expensive.
Food and drink – Often an absolute rip off!!!
Rental – high but quality usually excellent (top of the range, well serviced). In Switzerland I paid the same in France but the skis were basic and badly maintained with blunt edges.
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| Quote: |
Food and drink – Often an absolute rip off!!!
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I found the basic food & drink on the mountain at Les Arcs actually quite reasonable this year, huge pizza, meal for 2, from 9euro
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Delicious plat du jour and a glass of wine - typically about €13/14 round our way.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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One good thing about going to France, everything seems so reasonable when I get home.
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I like France, all the tight wads have gone to Austria/Bulgaria etc.
I find the extra euro per pint not enough for me to put off.
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French minimum wage about £9.00 an hour
British minimum wage about £6.50 an hour.
Selling prices are relative......
imho if UK minimum wage was £9.00 an hour food and drink prices here would be higher than in France.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I went to Soelden in Austria in March and found it only a little bit more expensive than Les Arcs over Christmas. The variance within countries exceeds the variance between countries.
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The variance within countries exceeds the variance between countries.
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exactly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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£9/hr minimum wage. Wow, didn't know that.
I think also the location and no doubt cost of rent influences prices also. Likewise inner London I have paid £5 for a pint in ordinary looking pubs a couple times when passing through South Kensington. I was cross at the time, especially when the bar man slid a silver tray over the bar I was standing at, as if to expect a tip on top of that! Later I considered the cost of rent for the area, cost of living in the area plus the clientele of the area of course.
I guess I carry an expectation; on summer vacations I go to to countries with significantly weaker economies because my money goes further. With skiing I don't have that option, at least not in world class terrain. Turkey holds some potential for world class skiing on par with the Alps (google image Turkey heliski to get an idea of the potential of the terrain) but currently they haven't manifested any ski resorts worth the bother. Central Europe / Balkan region holds some promise for beginners / intermediates but not so much for advanced / experts. Furthermore ski resort development progress for these regions is very slow. I prefer ski areas with challenging big mountain terrain.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Win-win If Brit skiers who hate France stayed at home the French would be happy as well. Btw SMIG (min wage) is afaik euro 9.43 per hour so no problem to changeling a few million euros at £9
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 30-07-13 23:07; edited 1 time in total
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
French minimum wage about £9.00 an hour
British minimum wage about £6.50 an hour.
Selling prices are relative......
imho if UK minimum wage was £9.00 an hour food and drink prices here would be higher than in France. |
Just to be clear, £9 (equiv.) or €9?
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You know it makes sense.
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I guess I carry an expectation; on summer vacations I go to to countries with significantly weaker economies because my money goes further. With skiing I don't have that option, at least not in world class terrain.
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Various Himalayan countries, Russia, Afghanistan...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I should of said within an affordable short-hall flight (otherwise you lose your savings on travel cost) and within a "world class standard"ski area not back-country or basic / unreliable resort that just so happens to be in quality terrain.
Russian Caucasus will be just as pricy as the Alps (potentially more) thanks to the Russian elite. Furthermore the area is mostly a sketchy conflict zone, Krasnaya Polyana likely in the safest region within the Caucasus however they still have metal detectors on the lifts and armed guards! Georgia holds potential for affordable skiing but Georgia is the other side of the conflict of the Caucasus plus civil un-rests within.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Just to be clear, £9 (equiv.) or €9?
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Its Euro 9.43 as Agenterre said which translates to £8.21 on todays rates, thats £1.71/hr more than the minimum wage in UK but with a very similar strength of economy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That will have an effect on prices however generally France isn't expensive in commodities (from a like to like comparison), just in "exclusive" areas and for specific products and services it can be significantly more than what most of us are used to back home. Like I said, I think France is better than the other main countries of the Alps for offering basic affordable accommodation options for those on a budget in many of the domains, so I am grateful for that. Plus the calibre of the skiing in France is second to none with only Switzerland offering equal quantities of quality advanced / expert skiing. But of course at even higher prices (excluding food / drink which is generally on par).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Plus the calibre of the skiing in France is second to none with only Switzerland offering equal quantities of quality advanced / expert skiing.
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I can't agree with that (if you mean directly lift-accessed, then maybe). But the best 'hard' skiing is always in the places you haven't heard of, anyway.
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SMIC is currently 9,43€ an hour or 1430,22€ per month, giving a net monthly minimum wage of 1101€. You can expect to spend around just under half of that on rent.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard, and I'm told that French employers taxes can be as much as twice the employee's take home pay - is that about right?
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| atraherne wrote: |
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Just to be clear, £9 (equiv.) or €9?
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Its Euro 9.43 as Agenterre said which translates to £8.21 on todays rates, thats £1.71/hr more than the minimum wage in UK but with a very similar strength of economy. |
Yep sorry for the vagary the UK rate is lower than I posted it's actually £6.19 not £6.50
so £2.02 per hour more in France. £68.68 more for their 34 hour week.
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boredsurfin, not according to my payslips, no - nowhere near that. Both employer and employee contributions are detailed on the paysip each month.
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boredsurfin, but the charges are surprisingly high compared to the UK...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| atraherne wrote: |
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Just to be clear, £9 (equiv.) or €9?
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Its Euro 9.43 as Agenterre said which translates to £8.21 on todays rates, thats £1.71/hr more than the minimum wage in UK but with a very similar strength of economy. |
" a very similar strength of economy" ....Hmm .. French unemployment rate : 10.8% UK unemployment rate 7.8%
about the same ratio SMIG vs Min Wage !!!
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And bizarrely, they are higher if you are in "management" or not. i.e. not just linked to the actual salary amount.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Go to Norway on a ski trip and you will never complain about the price of a spag bog and a pint in a French mountain restaurant again
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or go to Kyryzstan on a ski trip and muse over how you could have bought 5 bottles of Kygyz vodka for the price of your French spag bog... and conclude you're better off with the spag bog
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You know it makes sense.
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a very similar strength of economy" ....Hmm .. French unemployment rate : 10.8% UK unemployment rate 7.8%
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I should have said very similar GDP per capita. Furthermore the UK and French population is almost identical and so GDP of the two countries are also very similar. My favorite measure of a countries economic strength is GDP per capita. That said, it doesn't directly take into account unemployment and debt.
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If snow and skiing was just the reason for a holiday I can understand the higher french resorts but for a family holiday where the skiing might not be so important I know where I'd spend my money!!
The fact that I can walk round the beds in Austrian resorts also helps!!!!
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I hear you there. For me my priority is easy access to challenging terrain and good lift connections. The Arlberg appeal to me however they are more costly than the typical Austrian ski area. Furthermore there is little in the way of very basic / very affordable apartment style accommodation. Monterosa in Italy offers challenging skiing and the prices are generally right, however again, limited in terms of very basic / very affordable apartment style accommodation.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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One of the good things about France is the enormous range to choose from, both in terms of resorts and in terms of accommodation. If you don't mind squashing in and struggling a bit to walk round the beds you can get super-cheap apartments, often right beside the piste and some great deals in low season offering accommodation and lift passes etc for not too much at all. If money is no object you can get any number of super luxury chalets with fine dining and every possible luxury, reserved exclusively for your party. Or superb value all-in with UCPA in some of the best ski resorts. Bargain basement dormitories in Chamonix. "Boutique hotels" in Megeve. Or simple accommodation in small resorts where you will rarely hear any English spoken. Or just about anything, really. But for those who cannot find what they want there are lots more great spots in Italy, Switzerland, Austria and a number of other Alpine countries. We live within a short, cheap, flight of the best skiing in the world but still some people are determined to quarrel and snipe about it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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atraherne, Arlberg ticks all the boxes AND there is plenty of very decent, clean and reasonably priced accommodation. I and my wife and pals ski there at least 3 weeks a year and we never go other than b&b/ budget, plenty about in 60-70€ pppn even in peak season, much less when we go! PM me if you want and I'll point you in their direction. Austria exudes welcome to its visitors, they have a name for it "Gemütlichkeit"!
I gave up skiing in France 5 years ago when I realised that the backcountry skiing was inferior, the food was overpriced and generally poor quality (EK/ 3V), and the restaurants I'd just spent a bunch of money on THEN frequently charge me for using their dirty loo's. I don't believe I'm in a minority, all my pals now ski outside France. I'm sure there are loads of super friendly cheap places in France but I've done many and the only one I'll be going back to is Chamonix, and it won't be for the warmth afforded to its guests!
Each to their own I guess but if you want the best lift served freeride imo you keep driving east and avoid the tolls and road queues, and get up into Arlberg/ Votarlberg. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w I think you are absolutely right here.
But I think it is healthy to look at prices / discuss them. Food and drink was the issue for me. But there are ways / tactics to keep the prices down. For me anyway, I like to be vigilant. It means I can make my money go further / do more for me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Markymark29, sounds good but in France I have got apartments for £35-£40 / night that can sleep 4 people. Very basic, but super cheap and right on the slopes in top places such as Val d'Isere, Val Thorens and Les Arcs. Would like to try Austria for sure. I guess another thing that keeps me going to France is I am learning the language and so like to practice it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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atraherne, I've had dirt cheap spacious appartments in easy driving distance of multiple Austrian resorts like Fiss/Landis, Ischgl and St Manton. Not ski in/out obviously but the valley trick can be worth playing if cost (or late booking) is an issue.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Markymark29, "the backcountry skiing was inferior" ?? I have never skied in Austria, but this seems an odd remark to make. In what way(s)?
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under a new name, surely he means "less suitable for my needs", otherwise the comment would clearly be nonsense 
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
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Food and drink – Often an absolute rip off!!!
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I found the basic food & drink on the mountain at Les Arcs actually quite reasonable this year, huge pizza, meal for 2, from 9euro |
You need to know where to look in Les Arcs. A hot choccy can be anything from 2 eur to 5! Similar differences with food too. We're booking again next month. I can't find anywhere else with the quality of terrain/excellent accommodation/slick, well linked lift system and ski in/out within a day's drive of home  Can't do Atlantic flights cos I suffer really badly from air rage.
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under a new name, Arno, more tracked out, busier, not as accessible via lift system. I have no problem with French skiing just have an opinion formed over many years. I skied France 30+ weeks in late 80's/ early noughties. Tried it again 5-6 years ago and felt ripped off from start to finish, and that lack of investment in lift system in recent years was beginning to show....and have no plans to return for the foreseeable.
My views are based on where I wish to spend my hard earned, I'm sure yourselves like many other fellow SH's are happy in France, so be it.....happy days for all. I just prefer elsewhere!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Can't do Atlantic flights cos I suffer really badly from air rage
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I think what it amounts to is that food and drink on the slopes in a handful of "big name" French resorts can be very expensive without a bit of local knowledge as to where to look.
For the rest - lift passes, hire of equipment, accommodation, it's much of a muchness in euroland.
I've been surprised (and pleased) at the amount of investment in lifts in our area - at least one new lift a year since the turn of the century!
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Can't do Atlantic flights cos I suffer really badly from air rage
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Plus you would spend at least 10X travel costs to North America than to Alps.
I like Les Arcs too, the terrain is very good and diverse.
I mostly didn't score good prices on food / drink but are see how I go next time I am there.
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