 Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, I've got my money on who powderslut is and it is not sps89 that's for sure. Somebody with more spare time than even I can care to imagine.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, I don't think so, seems to be avoiding me. I would have thought I would have been prime target. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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arv, speculate away...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DaveC wrote: |
I've been on my RX9s for a couple of weeks solid in preperation for my CSIA2. They definitely make short, high energy turns easier and generate a lot more response in that type of turn. Other than that, I really don't feel much benefit anywhere else groomed over my Prophet 90s. Off-piste has been way more challenging, and markedly slower/less aggressive, and my turn shapes in pow are so limited. Tried to slash a windlip in knee deep pow and ended up putting my skis straight through it and sitting down in a classy fashion instead  |
Unfortunately I've had to spend the last 3 days skiing on piste due to warm snow conditions. I did the first on-piste day on my Prophet 100s and they were ok carving long radius turns on soft heavy snow. Next day I went out on my Head iM82s and they were night and day better. Much quicker edge to edge and so much stronger carving medium and long radius turns. And it's not like they're even a proper dedicated piste ski. Another day on the iM82s and I'm now lusting after a pair of Supershape Magnums for on piste. Now I love my Prophets in deep fresh snow, but I'm seriously unconvinced about fat skis for on piste blasting. Sure they get by, but I don't find them energetic enough to make the experience fun. If I'm skiing on piste I want to be charging and carving short, medium and long turns at will. My Head iM82s are pretty good on piste actually, except for short radius turns, but they're decidedly skinny by the standards of this thread 
As an afterthought, my Prophets are miles better than my iM82s on a full blown powder day 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, if you're getting a pair of dedicated pair of piste skis why not go the whole hog and get a pair of race department slalom skis. If you thought your iM82s were fun imagine what a pair of slalom skis would be like...
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, if you're getting a pair of dedicated pair of piste skis why not go the whole hog and get a pair of race department slalom skis. If you thought your iM82s were fun imagine what a pair of slalom skis would be like... |
Have just finished fitting bindings to my new Stockli Laser SLs for this very purpose. Fat they ain't, fun they will be....
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, if you're getting a pair of dedicated pair of piste skis why not go the whole hog and get a pair of race department slalom skis. If you thought your iM82s were fun imagine what a pair of slalom skis would be like... |
Yeah, I've been imagining for the last couple of days! But I thought something like the Head Magnums might be better suited to the soft on-piste snow conditions we usually see out in BC. It certainly seems to be the weapon of choice for the more serious piste carvers out here. iM82s are a great all-round ski, but even with a 'relatively' skinny 83 mm underfoot, they feel a bit ponderous on piste. My Prophet 100s are a non-starter in these conditions. I honestly wouldn't bother going out on them. It was interesting to see a few skiers out today on fat powder skis. None of them looked like they were having much fun. People can rave as much as they like about how awesome fat skis are on piste, but I'd much rather be on a proper pair of piste skis.
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Brrr...we have 8 pages of this circular logic. I prefer my carvers for making short radius high energy turns too, and I can't imagine many people wouldn't. That's not the argument anyone is making, so any chance people can stop disagreeing with it yet?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DaveC, I'm not sure about that. Quite a few people argue that fat skis are simply awesome at everything and skinny skis are history, when it's pretty clear to me that they're not.
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| rungsp wrote: |
Ummm....86 is the thinest I ski these days.
Faction 3-zeros are 113 underfoot and are my general purpose go-to ski. They hold a fantastic edge, carve a treat, terrific for short turns and a blast in powder or crud.
84....skiiny! |
I mean listen to this load of cack from page 1. Now I haven't skied Faction 3-zeros, but I'd put money on it they're pretty shite on piste compared to any half decent piste carver. Sorry rungsp, just picked your post at random!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And a lot of people argue that fat skis are pointless and skinny skis do everything perfectly well, which is the flipside of the same pointless argument.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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DaveC, Yeah that's very true. I'm more of a horses for courses realist and wouldn't by any means consider a dedicated piste carver as my only skis. Especially since I don't even own a pair at the moment! It's just the conditions in the last few days have reminded me that fat skis are really not the messiah.
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Good example of building random statements into your own argument. He's saying that Factions are his "go-to" ski. You're implying he reaches for it for his icy groomer only days, when he chooses to ski 86mm waists and that's probably a park ski anyway. No-one is arguing that a SL ski is outperformed on icy hardpack if you just want to ski groomers all day. Soften those groomers up and I personally think up to 90mm doesnt sacrifice anywhere near the performance the old guard imply, especially with newer builds of ski.
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You know it makes sense.
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DaveC, I agree with you. It's just the superlatives that some people throw at fat skis or sometimes even floptastic park skis when talking about their groomer performance that makes me laugh. Now if rungsp's Factions really do hold a fantastic edge, carve a treat and are terrific for short turns, how is footsoldier supposed to describe those same qualities on his Stockli Lasers? You just know they're going to be in a totally different league, so perhaps you'd have to say they hold a fan-f*cking-mega-tastic edge etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yeah, I know what you're saying. I find this debate tough anyway since I just want to say "quiver"... but then we'd have people dicussing their 60mm, 65mm, and 70mm quivers
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Poster: A snowHead
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DaveC, Nevermind fat skis, the bloody snow is melting at an alarming rate over here in Big White. 6 days ago we were skiing in fresh light knee deep powder, now it's 11C and 2m of slush! How's it looking in Fernie?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sunburnt after the last two days of +15... really slushy at the moment. It was good 6 days ago here too... wondering if it'll last 'til closing weekend at the moment. Supposed to be getting a little colder again now luckily!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| DaveC wrote: |
| And a lot of people argue that fat skis are pointless and skinny skis do everything perfectly well, which is the flipside of the same pointless argument. |
I really don't want to go around this debate again, but I can think of precisely one person on snowHeads (DM) who has consistently said that and I don't think he has contributed to this thread. Everyone else who has opposed the "fat is great on piste" has said horses for courses as far as I can see.
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Me neither. I quite like skiing in general I did blag snowblades for our 80's throwback day today... did one run on them and got grown up skis back out. Holy... never been so scared in my life. I think they were something like 160-95-105 dims or something and 80cm long, they just didn't work... terrifying!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DaveC wrote: |
| Sunburnt after the last two days of +15... really slushy at the moment. It was good 6 days ago here too... wondering if it'll last 'til closing weekend at the moment. Supposed to be getting a little colder again now luckily! |
Yeah it was fun skiing in the sun for a couple of days, but the novelty has now completely worn off. Looks like it will cool down again in the next few days and a little snow on the way. Had to look up corn snow on the internet earlier
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| DaveC wrote: |
| And a lot of people argue that fat skis are pointless and skinny skis do everything perfectly well, which is the flipside of the same pointless argument. |
I really don't want to go around this debate again, but I can think of precisely one person on snowHeads (DM) who has consistently said that and I don't think he has contributed to this thread. Everyone else who has opposed the "fat is great on piste" has said horses for courses as far as I can see. |
`
DaveC, the only reason most of us bothered to post on this at all is because some people (I´m fairly sure you incld, but can´t be bothered to look back) were saying that piste skis were passe and morbidly obese skis were the be all. So actually what you´ve posted above is the diametric opposite of the truth.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think its healthy to keep this thread alive as a point of reference for bickering as people clearly fall into distinct camps largely dictated by what they take on holiday. Its important to note that the media view has changed over the last 5 years as I remember Fallline saying about 100mm waisted skis that "these are a specialised tool for big powder days only" when they are now lumping the same skis in the "more of an all-rounder" bucket.
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fatbob, ha ha ...yes, tragic isn't it...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob, I take 65mm (possibly x2, SL and GS) and 97mm. In which camp does that put me?
I think turn radius and stiffness have as much effect as under-foot width. My Legend Pros are stiff as and very straight and there were a few steep couloirs with heavy snow in Cham where I'd far rather have had a slightly softer ski with a tighter radius that would have been easier to get round the turns and slide the tails.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sideshow_Bob, i find the stiffness and straightness of the LPs quite reassuring in the steeps. agree that there are easier rides in heavy snow!
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Arno, I don't know... you seem to like jamming them pretty fast in the gloop as I recall
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You know it makes sense.
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Arno, they're fantastic in the open when you can let them rip. Great fun in the softer stuff in the afternoon where they'll plough through anything doing big wide turns at mach 3, just like skiing a GS/Super-G ski on piste. Ripping down the 35 degree bowls off the back of Col du Balme in the afternoon was great fun, and I left the majority of the group (mainly on B3s) in my wake. Possettes earlier that day was much harder work: quite narrow, quite steep, lumpy and very heavy snow that didn't want to give, so it was jump, jump, jump, knackering on the legs. The B3-toting skiers found it much easier. Sacrilege I know but I think were they a smidgen softer they'd have been a little more versatile and I can see why Dynastar did soften them for the following year's version.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In Europe I usually just take my regular pair without a deathpack back up though ideally I'd have some too. For N America usually pop a tele rig & slowboard in the bag so again a deathpack carver out of the mix.
If I lived in resort I'd no doubt have an SL, GS, 85-90 mm hard off piste, 105mm allrounder, 120mm funshape etc (& a bankruptcy order hanging over me )
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, I only took my 97mm LPs on my last trip leaving my race skis at home, and I'll be leaving my GS boards at home and only taking my SLs and my LPs to the EOSB.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sideshow_Bob, i ought to get on some proper race skis sometime to see the difference ... one of these days...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| I think its healthy to keep this thread alive as a point of reference for bickering as people clearly fall into distinct camps largely dictated by what they take on holiday. Its important to note that the media view has changed over the last 5 years as I remember Fallline saying about 100mm waisted skis that "these are a specialised tool for big powder days only" when they are now lumping the same skis in the "more of an all-rounder" bucket. |
Yup, I agree - those who will only ski on obese skis and those who'll ski on skinny or fat depending on conditions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| fatbob wrote: |
In Europe I usually just take my regular pair without a deathpack back up though ideally I'd have some too. For N America usually pop a tele rig & slowboard in the bag so again a deathpack carver out of the mix.
If I lived in resort I'd no doubt have an SL, GS, 85-90 mm hard off piste, 105mm allrounder, 120mm funshape etc (& a bankruptcy order hanging over me ) |
I'm trying to consolidate down to 15m~ sl/gs cross with a 75-80mm waist in a 175-180cm (does this exist?), picked up some symmetrical park skis (da'nollie ex-demos off Kiwi1) for teaching kids and jibby days - and potentially my NZ seasons, and my Lhasa Pows for deep days - with the idea that I put 60%+ of my time on the skis I'm going to take my CSIA3 (yep, Spyderman, actually take not hypothetically this time ) on. So that's a quiver to force me to ski my skinniest ski a lot...
If I gave up trying to turn instructing into my permanent career path, I'd probably have 90mm stiff twins, 90mm poppy park skis, 115mm charger pow skis, and a 130mm reverse/reverse ski
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DaveC, take a look at the Rossi 9X Oversize for your piste ski. Around a 17m radius and 80mm underfoot allowing you to be able to cope easier in softer/deeper stuff than a dedicated SL or GS race ski. There's a thread on them somewhere round here.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, Certainly grandad, would you like a gramophone for your old '78s too?
My definition of deathpack - very hard piste or refrozen offpiste, maybe after no snow for a few weeks but low temps or particularly when lots of manmade or I guess injected race course. The sort of thing where fall at speed = long slide.
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Not read the whole thread as it's HUGE... but... anything over 100mm (ish) is a waist of time IMO. So much versatility below and upto this level. Was in my garden shed yestereday and was looking at the skis that I qualified on and they wre 204cm tall and I thionk about 60mm waist (1992) ! lol.... then found some 1998/99 so called carving skis that were mega skinny at the waist but with loads of shape... skied powder all day long on these and loved them... then compared to my new Stockli's ! Massive... but amazingly useable and the key benefit being the speed you can go off piste that was never possible in mixed conditions before this type of ski. You can ski them on hard pack though and they give a reasonable rebound when ski's correctly. If you ski in the West Coast US then this would be an ideal daily ski now in the right hands. In Europe however I think that an 89mm waist ski as about as narrow as you need to go. Just my 2 pence worth. I'm not getting into the whole BASI garbage...been there done it, used it and moved away from it. I remember that thread about a min turn radius required now and was pisxxing my self laughing as they feel the need to limit people to a certain type of ski as there are so many people these days that rely on modern skis to actually be able to ski well when in fact they have very poor basic technique. Sad really...
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FAQ
