 Poster: A snowHead
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Noskitrip
As some have already pointed out SE were specifically excluded from some local authorities lists - so some can get things right.
Daveyladboy
Who said lightining cannot strike 3 times
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Gillian, oh, what a shame.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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They "do not have the time to verify listings" ![/quote] Incompetance of the highest order I rest my case M'lord 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| leedsunited wrote: |
| ... a job where training days are at the expense of the children you teach |
The five days allocated for training were introduced in the 1980s by then Secretary of State Kenneth Baker (which is why they are sometimes called 'Baker Days'). In order to find those days he didn't reduce the number of term-time days when kids were in school by five, he reduced teachers' holidays by five days. So I'm sure you'll be delighted to learn that teachers do this training in their holidays with the time directed as part of their professional development.
As you are so critical of teaching standards I assume you are pleased to see teachers giving up this time to improve their practice...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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leedsunited, If you think teachers have it easy and that some are incompetent, why don't you offer your services for a few days to a Leeds comprehensive and show them how it's done. Then come back here and tell us what a doddle it is. BTW, they don't get 20 weeks holiday, it's about 13 including bank holidays. Most have a fair amount of work to do in their holidays.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| leedsunited wrote: |
| ... a job where training days are at the expense of the children you teach |
The five days allocated for training were introduced in the 1980s by then Secretary of State Kenneth Baker (which is why they are sometimes called 'Baker Days'). In order to find those days he didn't reduce the number of term-time days when kids were in school by five, he reduced teachers' holidays by five days. So I'm sure you'll be delighted to learn that teachers do this training in their holidays with the time directed as part of their professional development.
As you are so critical of teaching standards I assume you are pleased to see teachers giving up this time to improve their practice... |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12717061 Say's it all really in the first sentence, but as this thread would appear to be populated by a majority of people from the teaching fraternity then i assume it will be just brushed under the carpet as Tory bull
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leedsunited, Of course it's Tory bull. Any teacher who's been around a few years probably has what it takes or the reprobates he/she has to deal with would have reduced him/her to a nervous wreck and he/she would have left to get a proper job like yours. It doesn't need Gove to devise a multi bullet-point directive to tell a teacher how to teach. Maybe he needs a directive to tell him how to be a minister. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Billb - I do not disagree whith anything you say but i do firmly beleive that people should not just put their heads in the sand and ignore the fact that their own house needs to be put back in order, I had some fantastic teachers, one of whom introduced me to skiing and i believe that there a still lots of them out there now but the system at present does not appear to be working - as the report says - is it a way of sorting the wheat from the chaff possibily, lots of people i would assume are nervous as they may be picked up as chaff.
Anyway back to school ski hols , sorry to see that Gillians school is also at risk of losing their trip, Reynards wants stringing up 
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Yes, it's a great shame for Gillian's, school 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I won't even ask what you think the "all" is that is supposedly said in that article. What it precisely states is the claim that we need better ways of dealing with incompetent teachers, nothing more, nothing less. Ask hard-working competent teachers who have to cope with the side issues of working alongside the incompetent what they think. You might just find that many would quite like the incompetent to be dealt with more effectively.
But to what is far more important. Is Gilian's post a first indication of an Easter debacle? I hope not, but fear so. Any more info Gillian? If I followed through correctly and you are talking of Mount Grace School, the link on its website to the school ski trip is inactive. Ominous or accidental I wonder?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm more than happy to see the small minority of irredeemably incompetent teachers 'weeded out'. Also happy to see typical teachers who are already working hard to deliver a good service provided with the necessary support to do the best job as they can (including them doing training during their holidays). Don't think there is anything controversial in either of those points. But what I'm really happy to see the most is the changes that Michael Gove is going to make to the teaching profession so that ever more able people apply to become teachers, to meet his ever more exacting standards that he's going to set to enter the profession...
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Given that in the corporate world ongoing reviews of performance standards are pretty much the norm, indeed I know some human relations (or personnel - to those of us who like to be thought of as persons) departments that seem to do little else, can I presume that leedsunited will take this as evidence of gross incompetence in the corporate world if we are to follow his logic.
Stangely enough I see no proposals from Gove that the standards should include the ability to do due diligence reviews so as to identify Reynard and his ilk!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Stephen101 wrote: |
Given that in the corporate world ongoing reviews of performance standards are pretty much the norm, indeed I know some human relations (or personnel - to those of us who like to be thought of as persons) departments that seem to do little else, can I presume that leedsunited will take this as evidence of gross incompetence in the corporate world if we are to follow his logic.
Stangely enough I see no proposals from Gove that the standards should include the ability to do due diligence reviews so as to identify Reynard and his ilk! |
Absolutely agree there is incompetence in all sectors, just that in some, primarily the commercial sector those that are incompetent get spotted a lot quicker and are either mentored and supported to overcome their issues or find another job, with regards to the public sector it is a well known fact that over the last 10 years it has become bloated and in many areas inadequet and incompetent.
I could say that the public opinion of social services is at rock bottom at the moment but that is not to say that all social workers are incompetent.
I will say it again for the record this is not a dig at teachers, there are many out there that do a fantastic job and i have many friends who are in the job, but i do feel as do many parents that the teaching standards in this country have dropped. I am sure all those teachers who are reading this will be able to name at least one or two that are not up to it.
My original comment re a jolly for the teachers is just passing on the way it has been described to to me by several teachers who i know, they do work in private schools if that makes a difference - now awaiting torrent of abuse from the socialist sector reading this thread!!!!!
To some on here it is, of course , much easier to accuse me of disliking teachers than to confront something that challenges ones own perceptions.
And again back to the original subject, i really do hope that nobody else loses their Easter School Ski trip to these cowboy operators.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As for teaching standards nowadays, teachers are no longer judged on how well they teach but how students learn and whether they are enjoying themselves during the process. How many students are likely to show enjoyment in grammar and literacy lessons? Teachers are encouraged to make lessons more enjoyable so that attendance improves in line with government guidelines. Secondly, students and parents are so full of their rights nowadays that the teachers have far less authority in the class and are frequently challenged by even the younger students.
Also, with so many electronic distractions available (both at school and at home) fewer students go home and do much in the way of meaningful homework or reading. Those doing homework on the computer often have facebook, msn etc up at the same time and spellcheck is relied upon to correct spellings, rather than students learning to spell properly in the first place. And if I'm going to be really cynical, I might add that there is a more political agenda to lessons which is replacing the 'traditional' curriculum. I've even heard of teachers being reluctant to correct poor grammar for fear of being accused of not recognising students' dialect and cultural background!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| But what I'm really happy to see the most is the changes that Michael Gove is going to make to the teaching profession so that ever more able people apply to become teachers, to meet his ever more exacting standards that he's going to set to enter the profession... |
Do I detect a thick slice of irony hiding behind those cheers? I know it's unlikely, but there's a faint chance he does actually mean to follow through.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, just a touch
I'm all in favour of getting the best possible people in to teaching, and setting high entry standards might well be one side of the equation (it's been tried before, so nothing new from Gove). But nobody seems to be very good at the other side of the equation, so I'm genuinely interested in what Gove thinks he should do to increase the supply of highly qualified, well motivated people who want to make a career in teaching. Is, for example, reducing terms and conditions such as fewer holidays, less generous pensions likely to improve the supply? It might well raise a cheer from some in this and similar threads, but I'm not persuaded that it will significantly improve the supply (which in some subjects and in some parts of the country has been a systematic problem for at least as long as the two decades I've been observing education). Will a more rigorous job evaluation and competency scheme mean hundreds of graduates with Firsts and Two-Ones suddenly flock to teacher training courses? Perhaps, perhaps not. Anyway, I'm waiting to see what Gove suggests...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| skigirl35 wrote: |
Secondly, students and parents are so full of their rights nowadays that the teachers have far less authority in the class and are frequently challenged by even the younger students.
And if I'm going to be really cynical, I might add that there is a more political agenda to lessons which is replacing the 'traditional' curriculum. I've even heard of teachers being reluctant to correct poor grammar for fear of being accused of not recognising students' dialect and cultural background! |
At last someone with a handle on the real world - Thank You
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There are some great forums on the TES website - perfect for this discussion.
If it's true that Mount Grace School in Hertfordshire have been forced to cancel their ski trip with skiing europe, I'd be interested to learn how many children were involved and how much they paid - just to get an idea of the sum of money involved that, presumably, Chris Reynard is hastily adding to his stash somewhere... Switzerland perhaps...?
I'm staggered that the Department of Timidity & Inaction haven't paid him a visit yet and I wonder how many councils will be forced into reimbursing parents because they accepted payments to approve skiing europe, but failed to make checks. With diminishing funds at their disposal I wonder if these councils will be forced into cutting services, or jobs, elsewhere in the knock on effect of this scandal.
Two more weeks until the Easter Hols...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Skigirl and leedsunited
I am sure you will find plenty more with "a handle on the real world" at the Daily Mail forums.
Daveyladboy
Since Reyanrd is acting as a sole trader it is Devon Trading Standards that should be paying him a visit as they are repsonsible for looking into fraudulent trading and compliance with the Package Holiday regulations - I am sure others can write/email to let them know of their concerns. The DTI or whatever they call themselves this week could of course look into whether they wish to have Reynard (and possibly Mrs Reynard) disqualified again as a director.
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[quote="Stephen101"]Skigirl and leedsunited
I am sure you will find plenty more with "a handle on the real world" at the Daily Mail forums.
Stephen 101 is that the site that is next to the one called the Independant, the paper that when you use it to wipe your ar** more shi** comes of the paper 
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leedsunited
I love crosswords!
Was 'fu******g' 'furzeling' (a type of bird)?
I'm guessing 'ar**' is arms, and 'sh***' is 'shine'...
Is there a prize?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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daveyladboy, Don't know the whole up to date news regarding our school's ski trip as we're not directly involved but know enough that around 125 kids booked onto the trip are heartbroken and the organisers are understandably devastated at the situation having used this company in previous years without problems! They were supposed to be heading to Switzerland by air but have been offered Austria by coach now? It really is unbelievable! I wonder if anymore schools will be targets this easter?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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So sorry to hear that. A lot of disappointed children and their families. As has been said before they may well have spent a lot of time and money on lessons and gear - and in other schools affected at Feb half term, some parents had to cancel their holidays when the shool's ski trip was pulled.
The sum of money involved must be substantial - I sincerely hope they get it back and that skiing europe don't pull the "but our small print says..." routine, or suggest that as the school had no option but to cancel they should claim on insurance...
As a school ski-trip organiser I sympathise with the staff, who booked in good faith, often assured by the local authority 'approving' the travel company.
The Lyme Bay Tragedy, The Howglen case and the Devon and Dorset Adventure Holidays case - a litany of recklessness and dishonesty, the last going bust owing £2million - and that was 10 years ago...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Under the Package Holiday Regulations - SE have to offer a full refund if they substantially change the holiday (i.e change of country and means of travel as reported and it is decided not to accept the alternative. If Reynard cannot pay then he will have to go bankrupt and then the Insurance Bond should be triggered. Given that Reynard is ignoring other demands for repayment I wouldn't be surprised if declares bankruptcy pretty soon - I suspect that he will prefer this route to his creditors doing it for him. My guess is that we are now moving into the end game - and not before time.
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If anyone else is being offered alternative holidays with SE then my advice would to be take legal advice - which will probably be to refuse to do so.
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You know it makes sense.
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Chris Reynard is a problem but works within the legal framework of the land. Just.
He has 3 CCJs against him on the other firm but generally misses gettting caught up by dealing with staff at low incomes and bills that are small enough in increments that people get bored and wander off after a while.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 6-06-11 8:41; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Gillian wrote: |
| daveyladboy, Don't know the whole up to date news regarding our school's ski trip as we're not directly involved but know enough that around 125 kids booked onto the trip are heartbroken and the organisers are understandably devastated at the situation having used this company in previous years without problems! They were supposed to be heading to Switzerland by air but have been offered Austria by coach now? It really is unbelievable! I wonder if anymore schools will be targets this easter? |
Shame for them - at least they are safe and not subject to the poor process and unsafe practices of Mr Reynard's firm.
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Poster: A snowHead
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....Errr... not sure our school is sorted and safe just yet or if they will be? SE changed the trip from Switzerland by air to Austria in a coach. I believe the whole matter is being dealt with by school legal advisors. I guess a decision will be reached yay or nay by the end of the week.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've just been sent an e mail from Skiing Europe. Asking if I'm interested in using their company for a ski trip next year! Never used or heard of them before this forum. I think I will decline.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Noskitrip
What the barrister says may well be true - but doing both will be even stronger and they are not mutually exclusive. Trading Standards are the enforcing authority for breaches of regulations - and they can also commence actions for fraudulent trading.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Gillian wrote: |
....Errr... not sure our school is sorted and safe just yet or if they will be? SE changed the trip from Switzerland by air to Austria in a coach. I believe the whole matter is being dealt with by school legal advisors. I guess a decision will be reached yay or nay by the end of the week.
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I can't believe any school can meet the risk assessment or duty of care with the information in the media.
If in doubt ask - are the UK ski instructors Criminal Records Bureau checked?
- show me a copy of the travel bond
- as you hold information on children are you registered with the Information Commissioner's office for data handlers?
This is public domain information and should be readily available. Dealing with a one-man band and parting with over £100k to his personal account I guess you are wondering why it has got this far. We did too! I would not send my child on a trip with Chris Reynards people now and there is no actual proof of authenticity or proper conduct expected of a decent safe operator.
Dreadful shame... but don't be sold that a trip is OK. Check, check, check.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Schools should also remember that if they are mad enough to go on a holiday with SE that they have a legal obligation to provide parents of under 16s with a forwarding address before they leave.
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| Stephen101 wrote: |
| Schools should also remember that if they are mad enough to go on a holiday with SE...... |
One of the things about all of this is that schools have in the past enjoyed successful holidays with SE. Note that Meole Brace School has been going with SE for 6 years. That a school has felt confident in rebooking 6 times does suggest that the hindsighted sages accusing schools of "not taking due diligence" are a bit wide of the mark. Now just say, for the sake of argument that the Head of Tavistock knew the Head of Meole Brace. "What do you think of Skiing-Europe for our next ski trip?" she might have asked. And the reply? "Oh fine, we've been with them 6 times ......"
Obviously it is not hindsight to avoid booking SE for next year.
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ccl, Doesn't it just show that poor due dilligence has been in place for the previous 6 years and they've just been "lucky"? I saw enough in 1 minute of the "old" website to know that I wouldn't want my kid within a mile of that operation even without all the subsequent noise. Unfortunately the schools suffering for Easter trips are probably part of the tumbling house of cards precipitated by the original pull outs - what would be interesting to know is whether any schools have already committed cash for next winter, I bet some have!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi, just hoping for advice please my sons school is booked with SE for an Easter trip, they have have changed from Italy to Austria and now to another resort in Austria. They started out with a 3* hotel and now going to a B & B . I am really concerned but our school will not cancel. Does anyone know where we stand legally if we pull out as individuals. Thaanks
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Shelleandmark, welcome.
Star rating is a bit finger in the wind. Personally I'd prefer an Austrian B&B to most Italian "3 stars". What is the final resort chosen in Austria?
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FAQ
