 Poster: A snowHead
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Scissoring - When viewed from above the position a skier is in during a turn when they have their inner ski ahead of the outside ski with the ski tip diverging away from the outside ski.
Tip Lead - When one ski is leading the other whilst both skis are parallel to each other. Inner tip lead is when the Inner ski is forward of the Outer ski and visa versa.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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'Basic Swing' see 'Plough-Parallel'
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Waist Steering - A method used to turn the skis. By using the center core abdomenal muscles to tip the skis on edge and power the outside ski and outside half of our body through the turn, while simultaneously establishing an efficient and strong stance that serves as a perfect base for more advanced turns.
Any good?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, as a keen Pilates practitioner, I'm a great fan of abdominal muscles (which should preferably be engaged at all times) but surely you can't use just those to tip the skis, as your definition appears to imply? Isn't waist steering just twisting the upper body (that is the body above the waist, not the body above the hips) and, as such, A Bad Thing in skiing, at least as a means to getting the legs to do the right thing? 
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 22-04-08 14:33; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hurtle, if you twist more than the core abdominals which could lead to shoulder swinging it is a bad thing but if you twist just the core keeping the shoulders square it can be a good thing for carving. this is contentious in that some think waist steering is just a fancy name for countering but i think the difference is that if you use the oblique muscles you can tip the skis on edge as well as counter. im no expert on this topic and was just having ago at a definition.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Foot Steering - turning the skis primarily by twisting the feet and knee joints. Typically good for quick rotary movements of the skis when the ski bases are flat to the snow but can place too much strain on the knee joints if the skis are on edge or in when skiing difficult snow conditions.
Leg Steering - aka Thigh steering, aka Femur steering. Turning the skis by holding the hip joint still and moving the femur across the body. Usually used to get the skis tips to move to the inside of the turn adn increase edge angle on both skis.
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skimottaret, sorry, I slipped in an edit to clarify that, in effect, you couldn't use just your waist to turn your legs and that was the bit that specifically puzzled me. I certainly agree that engaging the abs will assist in engaging the rest of the core, as well being essential in countering/angulation. I suppose that, in fact, you will never achieve separation of upper and lower body (and keep the lower body working efficiently) unless you engage the abs. Sorry, I think we're on the same wavelength here, it's just that I found your wording a bit puzzling and I can't at the moment think how to improve on them.  Come in CEM!
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Hurtle, Waist steering is twisting the body below the waist, and it does just tip the skis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rjs,
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Waist steering is twisting the body below the waist
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Ah, important word! Maybe that's how the definition should read, reference to the abdominal muscles possibly just confuses the issue.
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Maybe that's how the definition should read
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have a go at a definition....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimottaret, bloody hell, that's a bit of challenge for someone who doesn't ski very well, let alone know or teach the theory thereof! But, using your template how about: a method used to turn the skis, by engaging core strength to twist the body below the waist so as to tip the skis on edge and power the outside ski and outside half of our body through the turn, while simultaneously establishing an efficient and strong stance that serves as a stable base and facilitates countering/angulation as necessary.
I'm sorry I can't say precisely which muscles you engage to do this, but I'm pretty sure it involves at least the glutes, and very likely the quads, as well as the abs.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle, excellent wording, i will amend accordingly
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skimottaret, omigod, hold the front page, I have contributed something to BzK. I need to go and have a lie down.
But, thinking more about it, I wonder whether - in the vernacular! - it isn't just: holding in your tummy and your bum so as to give you more stability to leg steer and to counter/angulate.
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, just be aware that waiststeering is not a universally accepted concept in ski teaching/coaching 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| veeeight wrote: |
| skimottaret, just be aware that waiststeering is not a universally accepted concept in ski teaching/coaching |
He is aware:
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this is contentious
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Why, in your estimation, is it not accepted? Is it because it is considered a meaningless concept, or is it because - having had a meaning attributed to it - some teachers/coachers don't think the technique should be used?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hurtle, haven't got time now to go into depth, but utilising the core muscles and pelvis rotation is not a new concept................ many nations (eg: Swiss) have been using this approach for a long time. Is it a new technique (unlikely), or a new methodology? At the end of the day skiing at the highest level is all about creative variation so what works for that guy, great.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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veeeight, I agree that waist steering is in some ways just a fancy name for what people have been doing for a while. I include it for completeness, in a similar vein to "arcing"....
THe glossary has shaped up well. I am debating whether or not to add typically used foreign words lke Graupel or Speiss turns etc. and perhaps some racing terminology may be in order... But terms like rise line may not be of much interest.... The other thing to add is named drills but without diagrams it is kinda hopeless...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think I know what a Charleston is but could someone enlighten me as to "powersideslip" and "royal(e)". Many thanks.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, I agree, a most worthy addition to the SHs capability. I would add words like Graupel - it's quite commonly seen without necessarily being commonly understood.
Re drills maybe a separate glossary - or the Wiki (lots more space for animations/pics and expansive text)
ianmacd, I would expect a powersideslip to be a bit like a racing sideslip...like any other one but at pace. A royale turn looks a bit like this...
And that's probably an excellent illustration of how skis can now generate much higher edge angles than they could then...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Murdoch, okay summer is upon us. Teaching hours have dried up and time is plentiful..... (ps cool old guy, old school royale photo)
Lets get a missing elements list together.... As a first pass.. Any others spring to mind
A few terms:
harscheisen aka couteaux
Rise line
Graupel
skins
Outside hand blocking
Inside hand blocking
Gate combinations i Slalom courses
hairpin
flush/verticale
royal flush
banana
over/open
closed/under
DRILLS to add (that i can think of)
Royales
Swedish (or is it Swiss ) turns
Norweigian pole plants
Garlands
Hoppsving
thousand steps
J turns
Speiss turns
Chinese Ploughs (the stupidest drill since the invention of the jet turn)
cowboys aka john wayne turns
midgets and giants
falling leaf
pole outriggers
powerplough
hockey stop
Powerslide slip (no clue on that one  )
Hourglass (aka "Crazy Legs") carved turns alternating between simultaneously on both inside and then simultaneously on both outside edges, for lateral flexibility in legs and hips.
White Pass Turn
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 24-04-08 15:27; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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'strewth, these are seriously colourful names. I can't wait.
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skimottaret, more for your list:
Term: White Pass Turn
Drill: Hourglass (aka "Crazy Legs") - carved turns alternating betwen simultaneously on both inside and then simultaneously on both outside edges, for lateral flexibility in legs and hips.
I see you've already got harscheisen/couteaux. Could consider Dynafit binding system..
Gate combinations: hairpin, flush/verticale, royal flush, banana, over/open, closed/under gates.
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Thanks David Murdoch.
What is that drill (Royale) for?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ianmacd, it wasn't a drill, but a "ski ballet" move. This is more what I understand it to be than that other picture. Discussed here
skimottaret, another drill - Chinese Snowplough.
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GrahamN, i hate that drill as i dont see what it does is helpful at all. Also find it really difficult to get rid of that tendency especially in beginner kids so would hate to encourage it, rant over...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimottaret, thanks and sorry didn't think to use the search button.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, ah, good on you. Offhand, I can't think of a better drill to encourage A-framing, but thought it ought to be in the definitions (even if you wanted to add a rider of "DON'T DO IT").
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GrahamN, sorry should be thanking you. Back to lurk mode.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hoppsving Drill - Skier performs small two-footed hops, off centre of skis, around the entire arc of the turn, while maintaining a strong upper body position. Skier should remain balanced to the outside ski even though hops are performed off of both skis and that the skis are parallel to the snow surface during the hops.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Speiss Drill - aka Short swings - Skier performs small jump (with ankles) to turn the skis perpendicular to the line of travel while
keeping hips, shoulders facing down the fall line. Upper body is stabilized with a pole plant.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skimottaret,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, are those definitions any good or would you amend anything?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, no i think they're good. In fact i think you've explained hoppsving better than the cscf!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cloudburst Drill - A very high end drill to develop the ability to influence the radius of a carved turn. At the end of a carved turn the skier rotates the skis downhill at 90 degrees to the path of the turn, creating a side slip across the slope. The skis are then brought back approx. 60 degrees onto the new carving edge to start the next turn. When coming back 60 degrees skis should stay on the same edge and not revert to the previous turn. ISTD's should be able to do this drill on a red run.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hurtle, sorry for the late entry
there is a new strengthening exercise for the glutes and piriformis which i have aded to the exercise page on the web site ... http://www.solutions4feet.com/cp7.php this exercise is really really good at building those stabilizing muscles in the pelvis which also play a role in the knee being allowed to collase inwards.... follow the instructions carefully and enjoy
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| Quote: |
| I agree, a most worthy addition to the SHs capability. I would add words like Graupel - it's quite commonly seen without necessarily being commonly understood. |
I agree too, very useful. I think "whiteout" and "flat light" should also be defined, preferable qualitatively for the former, since they're often misused.
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peura, good ideas, have a go at some definitions
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, not getting the cloudburt idea. Diagram? And can you do it? 
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David Murdoch, if I understand skimottaret correctly, just after the transition while the skis are flattened pivot the skis into the new turn and overdo it so you are in a high speed sideslip, ski-tips pointing to the centre of the new turn, then straighten them back and gently engage the edges to carve the remainder of the turn. Done (ISTM) to get good fore-aft balance + edge control and the feel of drift'n'lock entry into a tight turn. The sideslip part is pretty scary, particularly if you're doing it at full speed as if you flatten the skis too much you can catch a downhill edge and SPLATTT!!!. That's not good, particularly on plastic (fortunately I've avoided that particular indignity so far, although I did take a big hit when messing about similarly on snow), but there it also bu%%ers up your nicely tuned edges in double quick time. One of our guys who recently passed his (old) 1 Tech got me to try a few of them a couple of weeks back. Didn't do too badly for a first attempt, but I probably didn't swing the skis into the turn far enough.
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FAQ
