 Poster: A snowHead
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I guess this thread serves a purpose for trivial tedious time-wasting, but given its legal context (where anonymity is impossible) it just becomes a cloud of pointlessness.
For those who can stomach real names (not all BASI members, given the 'public group' definition) being put to accountable real points of view (since 28 April): https://www.facebook.com/groups/BASIMembers/permalink/10152710693755826/
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
The legislation is seen as anti competitive but despite protests from the ESI has never been overturned.
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A useful reminder. TTT talks about "the French" as though they were some kind of monolithic bloc, standing four-square behind the ESF. There are a good many French laws which a good many French people/politicians/economists would like to see overturned (on various grounds, including anti-competition and over-regulation), as there are in any country.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I just find it mind boggling that what i a minority leisure/sports activity in this country can become so charged with politics and poison.
Just look at the interminable threads on here with BASI, SCGB and other things.
Staggering that the governing body of the minority interest part of a minority interest should fall out with one or more participants to the extent where lawyers are going to get a few lunches out of it.
The only upside is that the vast majority of those participating in our minority leisure interest will never know nor care about it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@emwmarine, I agree. Ski instruction is a matter of trifling importance. It's really weird that, of all things, it's become the focus of the application (or not) of the EU free movement of labour principle.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| TTT wrote: |
| @speed098, SB is the new Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela??? This is just getting bizarre now. |
Again twist words I did not say he was the same as them I used them as general examples as most will have heard of the names.
SB may yet be found guilty even at EU level so def would not be the same but equally he may win all points. NM and MLK where not the first for each of those movements they are just the names people recognise, just as I could have said Rosa Parks or before her Rev Brown.
There are people who challenge the law every nyear around the world many while challenging the law are branded criminals till they eventually win their case. SB has been branded a criminal multiple times on here by yourself how will you feel if he wins his case and has French law or at least ESF policy's overturned?
I did not say so much one common training etc set of rules just the full recognition that a BASI training school could and should be allowed to open in France just as if they so desired an ESF could open in Scotland or any other ski resort in the UK, ( the real grey area would be venues like fridges/dryslopes both here and on the continent, which may need a special separate ruling from the EU).
Another potential grey area is a mix of qualified instructors lets say 5 ESF and 5 BASI just to keep it simple should they be allowed to train both ESF and BASI or do you say no you only have 5 for each organisation not ten.
I do not dispute the French ruling of ten qualified but do dispute that they have to be qualified via the ESF system not any other European system.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@laundryman, May be of little importance but as a trial case for implementation of EC 2013/55 is a very good profession to utilise and one of the pilot professions being reviewed (primarily due to selection by the previous commissioner M Barnier). Regulated in some countries not others, safety derogation in some, multi tiered in some, the potential to invoke a Delegated Act using either common tests and/or common framework... I can say that the UK government are taking it seriously because there are a raft of other professions that will be reviewed and they want to get the procedures right and not institute unnecessary additional regulation.
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@skimottaret, I agree with all that; maybe a good idea to try ideas out in areas that are not part of the fabric of society (e.g. plumbing!). The stakes are small, relatively speaking (though important to a small minority).
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Well, I'm sorry to say it @TTT, but you are coming across as a complete moron. You spout nonsense that either you cannot or you choose not to back up, you duck and dive, change your story upon every question put to you, you remind me of the current BASI chair, I wonder if you too find coolness in walking around with your polo shirt collar turned up, harping back to the eighties!
What exactly is YOUR agenda, beyond obfuscation and trolling. You have mentioned law and how people should adhere to it a few times in various posts, and yet you chose to completely ignore the ruling of last Wednesday in this SB thing of which YOU are obsessed.
Who is this SB fellow? What exactly has he done that will affect you? From my reading on the matter it appears to me that a member of your association is being persecuted, and he has been left out to dry without any kind of support. It also appears that your association has made bad choice after bad choice.
Someone here has commented on legal advice? Did you instruct legal advisers before taking your apparently inadvisable action? I've had a look on the "faceplant" pages which I can view and all I can see is a whole bunch of back stabbing, and talk of external advice without any further substantiation; one guy has asked time and again to see said instructions and response and none has been forthcoming ... if this BASI is a members association, then all of that information is within the purview of said membership, and to withhold is clear demonstration of shenanigans.
It does look like there are "just a few" people griping about this SB fellow, but read between the lines what I see is that this is solely about the inadequacies of the Board of Directors of BASI and the ineptitude of the executive, and it just so happens that SB is the one with the "balls" to pick it up and get the ball rolling.
I too am based in Austria, and I am curious to know whom you are since out of all the decent people whom I know and ski with, none is as full of cr*p as you yourself.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@TTT
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It is only once you are qualified that people are able to work in different countries.
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What does this mean? I've gone back to the BASI website, and it talks about being qualified at L1, L2, L3, and L4; if your quote above were true and you really believed it then surely the holders of each and every level of BASI qualification should be able to work in different countries. You either believe what you say, or you do not. If you do not, you really ought to stop spouting off.
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Does anyone on here know whats happened to the instructors that were employed by Simon Butler?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Teacher, yes
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Criminal proceedings have been dropped as they submitted their paperwork in accordance with French law.
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They were incarcerated and thrown into a police cell . . . still there I think!
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You know it makes sense.
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@Dunk, Well for once some good news in this debate, Just seems very unprofessional of all these upstanding BASI ski instructors not to be looking out for these guys, maybe they should be a bit more vocal about their situation and how it's affected them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Poleplant, three were, locked overnight in a cell. One had to endure a hair raising journey at full speed to St Gervais because Megeve police station was full with very naughty ski instructors.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Poleplant, If you are a BASI member thats a truly disgusting thing to say, do you really believe that someone should be thrown in jail just for teaching skiing? defiantly something wrong with your personality if you do, personally i have nothing but full sympathy for these guys.
As @Dunk, has just said that proceedings have been dropped they should all get some compensation from the French.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dunk, The Bastille is a lonely place!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Teacher, the case is not over yet.
I believe that the biggest compensation that they would enjoy would be able to carry on instructing, sharing their knowledge and love of the mountains with clients without fear of persecution. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dunk, To me it doesn't sound like they were "Naughty" which i'm sure was just tongue and cheek, just sounds like ski professionals trying to earn a living as a ski instructor.
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The French 'equivalence' under French law has been tested and is related to experience, not having the highest qualification, and is inline with EU Directive. Which is why SB's case has been taken out of the penal court. Why would the French court do this?
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I don't have access to that from here. However presumably it would be the work of a few moments to cross-reference the two streams.
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TTT's focus on a single individual makes me think that the interesting stuff is elsewhere.
There was a deal between the ESF and BASI which allows some people to continue in business whilst making their competitors "criminals". TTT would say the deal was done to rid the French mountains of the criminal element. It would be interesting to know which people made that deal, and if they had anything to gain from it.
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@philwig, From what i have researched on this matter, the person you are referring too is not only the new BASI CEO but also Director/Owner of BASS Megeve. go figure.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Teacher, yes truly disgusting that these people were arrested for ski teaching. I've heard that they were kept overnight in freezing cold cells, and questioned for over 12 hours. I've been told that SB was kept longer and told not to leave France, and had to sign in at the Gendarmerie every week, causing him to miss a friend's funeral. Were they criminals? terrorists? thieves?, or just doing their job? which by all accounts they have been doing (legally as it turns out) for the last 12 years and longer!
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| TTT wrote: |
| In my profession other nationals are not allowed to train people in the UK. |
Are you a spy?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Poleplant, I can't even begin to imagine how angry these guys must be, but being found innocent of these allegations must be a massive weight off their shoulders, just seems that the instructors in question are keeping very quiet on this matter, doesn't make sense to me, if it was me i would be shouting it from the roof tops being found innocent, maybe they are figuring out how much to sue the French.
Does anyone actually know who they are?
Are they on here?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lots of incorrect information on here! Simon B and 5 of his instructors were arrested. Simon was kept overnight in a police cell, forfeited his passport and had to sign in every week at the police station. Two of the other instructors were detained for between 8-12 hours then released, with no restrictions on travel. The other three instructors (all Basi 3/ISIA) were questioned, politely, then released with no further restrictions. Everyone of these instructors had filed complete and correct declarations, acknowledged by the French authorities and following legal advice. Despite this, they were given suspended fines. The latest court judgment has overturned this and dropped the case as the declarations were correctly submitted. The failure of the French administration to follow correct procedure meant that these instructors were within their rights to continue teaching, whatever the final decision the administrative court may make in future. they are undoubtedly keeping their heads down in order not to prejudice any further legal action.
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| Teacher wrote: |
| @Poleplant ... maybe they are figuring out how much to sue the French. |
It seems that one of them at least is suing BASI for half a mil!!
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You know it makes sense.
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@rsvpann, From what i gather, 3 instructors were kept over night, one of them was picked up the season before according to the media, truly disgusting behaviour, what would be happening if this had happened to a French national working in London?
I hope they all have great lawyers and sue them for the same amount that Simon is suing BASI for.
Do these guys have a case against BASI too?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rsvpann wrote: |
| Lots of incorrect information on here! ... |
Does this all mean then, do you think, that ALL of those instructors who were then prevented from working for the rest of that season, could in fact bring action against the French administration?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@rsvpann, the bit about the hair raising journey is true as well!
If I see any of them, I will post on here that one of the Megeve six has been spotted.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Teacher wrote: |
| @rsvpann, ... what would be happening if this had happened to a French national working in London? |
Just to be clear, we don't want to turn this discussion into anything resembling Xenophobia do we?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The media stories on this have been badly distorted. Truth is, this is a 'test case' and no one knows exactly what the outcome will be for Simon or BASI. I know all of the other instructors involved and of the 5 (Simons case is different) all they want to do is to teach skiing, which they all love and very single one does really well. Decisions about next steps or not are down to each of them as individuals.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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One has been seen out in Wimbledon today........
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@dunk Yes, the hair raising journey bit is correct!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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another was last seen Saturday night cobra in one hand nan bread in the other
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@Dunk, "Megeve 6" love that, makes it sound like a soap opera.
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Another is making coffee later, or so they promised
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@TTT, I'm just picking up on something you said a little earlier:
| TTT wrote: |
| I'd say SB is on a sticky wicket because he is betting that he knows the law better than the French, BASI and the EU |
Are you suggesting that BASI know the law? How can you claim this? They've done a pretty p*ss poor job of obeying it it seems in terms of all of the wranglings and mishandling of the Articles of Association and the Memorandum of Understanding. If you know someone on the Board of Directors, or in the Executive, perhaps you could suggest they do something with that knowledge they have.
You are a bit of a comedienne, providing lots of laughs around our dinner table here.
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| Teacher wrote: |
| @philwig, From what i have researched on this matter, the person you are referring too is not only the new BASI CEO but also Director/Owner of BASS Megeve. go figure. |
So when SB was ejected from BASI, one of those who made the decision is a commercial competitor operating a ski school, moreover one in the same resort. Is that correct?
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FAQ
