 Poster: A snowHead
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holidayloverxx, I guess 'sorry' because there are lot of SH's whom I respect and like to think of as friends who I don't agree with in this situation, I guess I am reserving the right to form my opinion, but it just might not win me any friends - the sheer vehemence of the anti-nixmap lobby is rather disconcerting.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, not that this thread is (supposed to be) about that, but the bartering arrangement is seen by some to be suspect because it doesn't offer the 'non-employee' any protection or insurance if something goes wrong eg a domestic accident, and also because it risks falling foul of local tax and other laws (and that could be difficult, not only for nixmap - who can obviously take care of himself - but possibly also for the non-employee, who could risks charges of complicity or collusion.)
As to the holiday, I think you've hit the nail on the head with 'no such thing as a free lunch' and also, given the earlier history, people might simply be suspicious of nixmap, especially as he doesn't even disclose where the chalet is. Personally I'd find it difficult to summon up enthusiasm and gratitude for an offer by someone I've never met, whose character and modus operandi I know nothing about, whom nobody else on here seems to have met, and who discloses no detail whatsoever, not even the location, of the fun event which he's suggesting. As Masque has implied, compare and contrast how both Michelle and holidayloverxx organise any snowHead-related event - you know exactly what's on offer and that it is going to be meticulously organised.
That said, I agree that there does seem to be some undue vehemence but, as somebody has already noted, Masque's actual experience in an analogous situation (I don't know the details or rights and wrongs of that, but gather it was some sort of informal arrangement which went badly awry) is likely to have engendered strong feelings on his part.
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Megamum, When I'm not sitting on the fence, I think I'd be in your field 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hurtle, Well at least your response is considered and provides a legitimate reason for distrust in the arrangement. I don't understand the legalities of the situation, but I guess you do. So when does 'barter' become an employee/employer relationship that would fall under the auspices of such laws?
However, w.r.t. the party aspect it happens in this country, we've often provided free accommodation for guests at a party so it is not beyond comprehension that the offer could be genuine its just that the location is slightly more desirable.
Alan R I'm sure you would be most welcome as are all the other people that have enjoyed our hospitally after one of our parties.
Now I wonder what would happen if I offered a summer SH's party next year, would an offer from me with free accommodation be viewed with similar distrust?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum,
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So when does 'barter' become an employee/employer relationship that would fall under the auspices of such laws?
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The detail of the legalities will vary case by case and country by country but, in general terms, employment laws are in place to protect employees, so there is a risk to 'non-employees' when employers seek to get round those laws in order to save money - let alone to evade tax.
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it is not beyond comprehension that the offer could be genuine
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Absolutely, I'm not saying it isn't, just that I don't blame anybody for erring on the side of caution.
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Now I wonder what would happen if I offered a summer SH's party next year, would an offer from me with free accommodation be viewed with similar distrust?
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The huge difference is that lots of people know you in person, could vouch for you to those who haven't met you, and everybody could make up their minds on that basis. And they know lots about your place, because you've described it in some detail.
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Hurtle, I can see the sense in your arguments. I would hope that nixmap could also view them in the same way. Clearly what he needs to do to quiet the malcontents would be to provide some reasonable response to these sorts of issues. Perhaps he keeps things too close to his chest. nixmap do you have a reasonable response to, what appear to be the very valid issues that have arisen here? Is there a reason why you do not fall foul of things like employment laws and tax issues in your situation? Do people have to provide their own insurance or do you have public indemnity policies that cover the people that live with you? Also, it is perhaps fair to let people know in what resort your ski weekend would be held.
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Megamum, why are you so bothered now? Were you bothered when those "staff" threads were active? Sorry, but seems to me like you're only interested because you've got a sniff of a freebie.
Nixmap gets round employment laws and employment taxes by not employing the person. Simple. Would take a court of law to decide whether he is actually an employer who has not provided a contract. In all fairness - there are two sides to this coin and the "staff" will be a fully grown adult who has chosen to be in that situation. Employment laws are there to protect an EMPLOYEE.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Shimmy Alcott, please re-visit those old threads I was active on those too. I wouldn't be in a position to take up nixmap's offer of a freebie which mean I CAN actually contribute on this thread without being accused of a biased view. As so often when I chip into things like this I'm just concerned about fair play and I don't like to see relatively new poster hauled over the coals without just cause. In the other threads it was very difficult to glean the arguments that Hurtle has addressed for me so succinctly above.
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Shimmy Alcott,
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the "staff" will be a fully grown adult
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Some of the candidates are likely to be very young adults, I'd have thought, and thus not that knowledgeable. But you're right in the sense that many people take similar risks, entering into 'informal' arrangements of one sort or another, paying builders in cash is an obvious example which springs to mind.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, I apologise then
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle, Brilliantly explained. Nice one. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Megamum wrote: |
Also, it is perhaps fair to let people know in what resort your ski weekend would be held.
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Location details have been made available on private request.
Privacy is not a crime, nor is it sinister, I see no reason to publsh a private address in an open forum.
With the current reception doubly so.
This has been the case with other threads.
More to the point, I havent posted exact details as I said in my original post I was only thinking half seriously about it. (e.g) I dont know all the details myself. It was an open suggestion.
Clearly Im thinking less seriously after the feedback I have had, which was a little disappointing
Thanks anyway for your kind comments.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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nixmap, wow, another Resort X! Obviously nobody expects you to vouchsafe the exact address, but you mean you're too nervous to publish even the name of the resort? Forgive me for suspecting that your motives are not altogether straightforward and therefore for not falling at your feet in gratitude and understanding.
Right, folks, shall we all now go and trash Michelle and Gray's place? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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 S a a n e n , 100 meters from nearest lift etc please google for more info.
I understand that nicknack knows the area very well so any body lucky enough to go will have a great time. Plenty of powder , then a bus home. I quote from previous entries.
I really hope this works out for someone, history is against you .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| lightningdan wrote: |
| S a a n e n , . |
????????????????
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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actually Im just looking at the MSB as an alternative. which is close to me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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nixmap, I'm not sure there is one this year. It's been replaced by the Steepish Off Piste thingy.
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Saanen , if you prefer.
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Not like you nick, only question marks?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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either is misleading.
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nixmap, I'm not sure there is one this year. It's been replaced by the Steepish Off Piste thingy
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well seems like people are signed up for it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Your best answer yet. But you are in Saanen, Gstaad?
No question marks?
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 22-11-10 16:21; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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nixmap, Where are you looking? Are you sure you're not looking at last year's MSB?
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No problem nick, take your time.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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OK! I'll give you an idea of what it can cost when informal arrangements go awry. It cost me in excess of 34K not to get paid the 6K owed. Now I'm not saying that Nick is an amoral, lying, front bottom but I do and did say that he is a clever man and the crafting of the offer is quite sublime . . . and that unnerves me, it is a red flag, he's looking to his best benefit and that puts the welfare of the other party low in his priorities. And let's face it, who amongst you would trawl the Swiss Gov web sites to find out where you stand in a 'quid pro quo' situation or even if Swiss law allows such an arrangement, or even how long you can stay legally stay in country whilst performing your 'duties'?
Most of this was thrashed out long ago and really should be left to rot in pieces. What pizzed me off here was his complete inability to see how things are accomplished on sHs events. Simple structure, community support and mutual trust . . . and Nick, you need to (l)earn that.
You should have gone with that first thought.
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Poster: A snowHead
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It cost me in excess of 34K not to get paid the 6K owed
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Dont think Ive ever said there was money involved, in fact quite the opposite.
There were over 10 pages discussing the value proposition from almost every angle in open forum and further detail discussions in private. I find it hard to believe that people were under any misconception that this was a paying job in any sense, or that people were ill informed.
Anyway Im sure you can all talk about this all over again for 2012 next summer (with admins kind permission)
WRT to this thread.
My posts were summarized as.
1 The proposal:
Im half seriously thinking about this.
Should be fun, Obviously I cant accomodate everyone I think, but I could find good value nearby alternatives out of high season from the neighbours.
Maybe its just a silly Idea.
No doubt youll let me know.
2 On the subject of cost:
I can't house everyone, but I could find good value nearby alternatives out of high season from the neighbours, theres plenty of unused chalets out of high season. Depends on the demand. Im also unsure if I should publish a cost in case the thread is terminated as a comercial post.
3: So how do I go about making a list then?
(like one of the lists on EOSB etc )
Not exactly sure where I went wrong.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| nixmap wrote: |
| Not exactly sure where I went wrong. |
Are you really not listening??? Several people have outlined above (perfectly politely) the reasons why you are distrusted. Why don't you start with giving us an idea of what resort you're talking about?
This is starting to feel like groundhog day 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Did we ever find out where Nicks chalet is? IFIRC all that was established is that it's at the cheap end of a village and a long walk or a drive in the car to the lifts? |
Meirengen-Hasliberg ish |
| nixmap wrote: |
| Its ski in ski out-- if you are a beginner, then you might prefer to walk 100m to the piste- |
I dont really believe this is secret.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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nixmap, If it was a serious offer then it was very kind of you. I have no particular opinion on the arrangements for someone living in your chalet in return for looking after it and your family - if you find a consenting adult to do it then on their heads be it.
You've put an idea out there and you have indicated that for further info then people need to pm you. Cant blame you for not wanting to put any further details on an open forum. TBH if you are going to have people stay at your place then it's a good idea to have one to one dialogue with them.
So - if people want to go, pm him!
(ps - for the record I haven't, I was out when he declined my request for a lift from the airport to resort in his helicopter )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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welll if anyone can be bothered to triangulate.....
"The chalet is in a well known resort in central Switzerland. Local Skiing (70 km sq) is literaly 50 yards from your door, although no ski resort will keep you fully entertained for an entire season. Other famous ski areas such as Engleberg, Wengen, Grindlewald, Murren , Gstaad, Andermatt,Adelboden are within easy reach."
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FAQ
