Helmets - compulsory from next season?

A snowHead

Why do people follow the Blind & then become Bind?

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I wear one, not for protection though. First reason, the indoor slope near me has a rule of wearing one. Although thats not even my main reason. I wear a beanie, my head sweats, it ends up sliding up and leaving me with the burn line. A helmet, i open the vents when i feel hot and go fast. Sorted. If i wear nothing, i get frost bite on my baldy noggin Laughing

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@Pruman,

Can you point me towards the stats on that? Googled and can't find any data showing that any of those three things are true

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At the risk of re-igniting this thread, if you are interested in the studies which have been conducted regarding (1) the efficacy of ski (or bike) helmets; (2) whether wearing ski helmets is associated with increased risk-taking and/or (3) whether ski helmets impact peripheral vision/other senses, you can read extracts of peer-reviewed medical journal articles on these topics by searching the following site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

***ducks for cover***

EDIT: URL to the Pubmed site corrected.

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chivdog, I tried your link but it wouldn't work for me. It might be because I'm using a tablet not a PC but it does look like it is incomplete

Thanks

@jedster, I don't know, it was a bit of a guess for dramatic effect. But, for example, in 2010 in London alone there were 58 pedestrian fatalities caused by collisions with vehicles/bikes and a whole magnitude higher of seriously injured. If that were happening to holiday skiers in collisions questions would be asked.

This is the kind of thing you find on Google:

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My daughter stumbled off a button lift whilst learning to ski on a dry slope, I was coming down the slope when I saw guy a few lifts behind let go of he's button which swung out in a arc and smacked my daughter clean in the head! Buying her a hemet that morning was the best thing I've done in terms of her skiing, (next is a transceiver) I wouldn't like to think what would have happened if she wasn't wearing a helmet, at best lots of stitches & blood and It show it doesn't need to be a hard packed icy piste, a tree , a rock or some idiot taking you out to get a head injury.
Both myself & my wife also wear helmets because quite simply they could save our life, People will always argue about wearing helmets but if there is the smallest percentage that it will help, to me its a simple choice.

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Putting the cat among the pigeons..

http://www.220triathlon.com/news/wearing-helmets-increases-risk-taking/10741.html

quote
Replicated in real-life settings, this could mean that people using protective equipment might take risks against which that protective equipment cannot reasonably be expected to help.
end quote

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@ansta1, It's called Risk Compensation and has largely been discredited in relation to helmets across sports. Most current studies into peoples risk adaption show either no long term change in behaviour patterns or a slight reduction in risk taking or risky behaviours in people who choose to wear a helmet. Citation

What does seem to be missing is a lack of good data newer than about 10 years ago when helmet prevalence was still relatively low compared to what we see today.

i'm fairly confident that people who wear helmets that constantly look to convince others that there decision (to not) is wrong, is done so out a need to re-enforce there own decision and low self-esteem rather out of a sense of actually caring for the well being of others.

You know it makes sense.

@eddiethebus, so not those who choose not to wear constantly try to discredit the reasoning behind those who choose to wear them out of need to justify their personal beliefs in the face of an overwhelming tide of popular opinion and fear that one day they'll just be overruled by some authority outside their control?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Richard_Sideways, i know what it is and that its either used or discredited depending on the view you have. I dont really give a fudge either way but was just linking to the recent study.

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A snowHead

@eddiethebus,
Have you met DG Smile

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Wow, and they say that people who wear helmets lack peripheral vision...

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=123188&start=160#2836826

The inference is pretty clear.

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@Pruman,

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'm just off to Whistler, so I checked the website and it seems to say that children must wear helmets and now anyone working on the mountain must wear helmets. i.e. lift operators, ski instructors, etc.. But it is not compulsary for adults yet....

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ok I know this is about helmets, which I don't give a tosh about, however in the last two ski trips I saw butt protectors, I kid you not. One in Madonna this year, and one in Ischgl last year. Ok perhaps they weren't butt protectors but they looked like butt protectors. They were the funniest looking things attached to the back bottom, and clipped around the waist and legs. Now if they become a piece of kit that folks consider important, then we will have a good thread. ( if they aren't butt protectors what in hell are they?)

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ok just looked them up, yes they are butt protectors. rolling eyes

http://www.amazon.com/Bohn-ButtSaver-Butt-Tailbone-Protector/dp/B001TLTUVE?tag=amz07b-21

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This is the kind of thing you find on Google:

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

In my part of London are numbers of nippers now wearing helmets. They are not skiing, some on scooters, some just walking about. Bizarre but lucrative trend.

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Wearing helmets is the same as the followng debates.

Mac v PC
Drink Driving V Not Drink driving
Snowboarding V Skiing

All are pointless as the are argued again and again and again.

End of the day those that wear them will always argie for it and those that don't wont.

Personally I am a helmet wearing, PC using, sober driver that snowboards Laughing

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@KernowRed, you forgot Conservatives v Muppets, In EU v Out EU, lager v ale.

A snowHead

Personally I am a helmet wearing, PC using, sober driver, muppet supporter that drinks larger in the EU and that snowboards

A snowHead

I have always avoided entering into the helmet debate - I take the view that this is a decision for people to make for themselves. However, there are far too many people on this thread, as ever, who are insisting that not wearing a helmet is stupid (or not common sense), or indeed seem to be arguing that it would be a good thing if it were compulsory. This is simply not backed up by the facts, and it is a perfectly rational decision not to wear a helmet if you do not wish to. I certainly do not say that people should not wear one if they wish to, but I choose not to because:

1 The risk of a serious head injury is actually very low and well within the level of risk I am happy to take. This is backed up by many studies - I suggest that people read Dr Mike Lanran's excellent and balanced website www.ski-injury.com, and specifically http://www.ski-injury.com/prevention/helmet. Note that Dr Mike does wear a helmet, but also clearly states that the evidence does not support making it compulsory. Contrary to common belief, skiing is actually a relatively safe sport - injury rates are approximately 2/1000 days skiing and fatalities around 0.71 deaths per million skier days. Not all of these are due to head injury. He states, for Scotland (where he was based):

Potentially Serious Head Injuries (PSHI) have fortunately been pretty rare in Scotland, probably because we don't have trees on or near our pistes to collide with or long wide slopes that maybe associated with high speed person to person collisions. Nevertheless, its no reason for complacency. Our ongoing study shows that from 1999-2008, head/face injuries accounted for just under 15% of all injuries in skiers and snowboarders with an absolute rate of 0.32 per 1000 skier days. The vast majority of injuries were minor in nature and only a few people needed transfer to hospital. None had any serious neurological complications as a result of their injury. Despite rising rates of helmet use (about 40% of all slope users currently compared to 5% in 1999, we have not seen the % of head injuries - even minor/moderate ones - decrease yet in Scotland).

2 Whilst helmets do undoubtedly prevent minor head injuries, it is also clear that they are of little use in preventing serious injury. Again, not my words, but the result of real studies. To quote from ski-injury.com:

In the 1998/99 part of the study, Shealy and colleagues followed the deaths as they happened and found that, where the information was available, 35% of individuals who died were wearing a helmet. This is much higher than the rate of helmet use amongst the general population on the piste. Two of the deaths amongst snowboarders resulted from them being struck by young skiers wearing helmets who had jumped without being able to see where they would land.

Shealy et al conclude "...the findings are not particularly supportive of the notion that wearing helmets will significantly reduce the number of fatalities in winter snow sports". This was supported by a presentation at the last ISSS meeting by the Chief Medical Examiner for the state of Vermont, USA - Dr Paul L. Morrow. Dr Morrow was of the opinion that of 54 deaths at commercial ski areas in Vermont from 1979/80 to 1997/98, helmets would not have been of any particular value in saving any of the lives lost - as the degree of trauma simply overwhelmed any benefits that the helmet might convey in an impact. To quote Shealy et al again - a team of highly respected ski injury researchers - "On the basis of results to date, there is no clear evidence that helmets have been shown to be an effective means of reducing fatalities in alpine sports".

Its a sobering fact for example that more than half of the people involved in fatal accidents in 2008/09 at ski areas in the USA were wearing helmets at the time of the incident (Source - NSAA). As Shealy states "Even though the prevalence of helmet utilization is rising by 4 to 5 percent per year in the U.S., there has been no statistically significant observable effect on the incident of fatality."

In another recent scientific publication, Shealy and his colleagues found that the most common primary injury in ski and snowboarding fatalities is some sort of head injury – approximately 60 percent of ski fatalities involve a head injury. However, it is critical to place this into its proper context. “While some sort of head injury is usually the first listed cause of death, most of the fatalities also involve multiple, or secondary trauma sites; single causes of death are not common.” Most fatalities appear to occur under circumstances that are likely to exceed the protective capacity of current helmets designed for recreational snow sports. (Source - “Do Helmets Reduce Fatalities or merely Alter the Patterns of Death?” Shealy, J., Johnson, R., and Ettlinger, C., 2008)

The take home message is that the wearing of a helmet should not be viewed as a panacea against fatal injury and should not give the wearer a false sense of security. Carl Ettlinger - a world renowned expert in ski safety from Vermont, USA - sums up the situation when he says on his website...

"When you feel that rush of adrenalin while skiing (snowboarding), ask yourself if you would be doing what you are doing if you were not wearing a helmet. If the answer is NO, maybe you should reconsider the activity."

So, whilst helmets may help reduce the incidence of minor and moderate head injuries and lacerations they may be less able to protect the foolhardy skier who pushes his or her limits and who (inadvertently) ends up wrapping themselves around a tree at typical skiing speeds. To give a stark example, biomechanics have demonstrated that in order to protect the head against a direct impact blow at 30 mph, with currently available materials, a helmet would need to be at least 18cm thick, 50cm wide and weigh 5kg+. Hhhmm….stylish. Radar data collected from ski areas suggests most intermediate skiers regularly travel at much higher speeds than this.....

I would point out that Michael Schumacher was wearing a helmet, which did not help him much.

3 I believe that there are better ways to reduce the risk of head (or indeed other) injury. Whilst you can never reduce the risk to zero (and nor would I wish to), skiing within your capabilities, taking care around people and objects, not indulging in jumping, parks and the like and not skiing in trees, will substantially reduce my risk of injury, head or otherwise, than wearing a helmet.

So, please stop telling me that I am idiot or have no common sense when I choose not to wear a helmet.

That said, Dr Mike and many studies do point out that the incidence of head injuries seems to be greater for children and beginners. There are various theories for this, but I think it does make sense for children to wear helmets and I insist mine do, until they are old enough to make that decision for themselves. My kids do tend to ski at the edge of their ability, jump, play in the parks and ski through trees - all of which substantially raise the risk. Indeed, if I were doing those things, I would probably wear a helmet myself.

More controversially, I do believe there are some downsides to the increase in helmet wearing, and do think that they may have made the slopes (slightly) more dangerous. These are personal opinions, and I understand that many will disagree. Specifically:

1 I do think that the wearing of helmets makes SOME people take more risk. There do seem to be studies in both directions on this, so I know that it is not a provable assertion. However, I do have friends who seem to display this behaviour, in particular a couple of previously quite careful ladies who have expressly said that wearing the helmet makes them feel more confident (to the extent that in one case I now steer well clear of her on the slopes)

2 I know from my own experience of wearing a helmet that it has some impact on my awareness of what is around me. This is in part hearing, and in part reduction in peripheral vision. In fact the latter is not really a result of wearing the helmet, but the habit of wearing goggles with a helmet - this is backed up by studies. However, anecdotally, I think there are more collisions on the slopes, and I believe that the wearing of helmets (with goggles) does contribute to this. I hate wearing goggles, and this is a major factor in my decision not to wear a helmet

3 Less seriously, I think that having a thing on your head that makes your head bigger, makes some (usually minor) accidents more likely. Again anecdotally, but I have never hit my head with a chairlift bar - but I cannot count how many times helmet-wearing friends have clonked themselves and said "thank goodness for my helmet". I do not believe the idea that a helmet makes neck injuries more likely - I can find no evidence to that effect.

So, in summary - feel free to wear a helmet if you wish, but please stop trying to impose your choice on me or those who choose not to. Not wearing a helmet is perfectly rational, given the low risk and relatively low protection provided against serious head injuries. I have skied for 35 years without, and see no reason to change now. In the words of the expert, Dr Mike from ski-injury.com:

Personally, I wear a helmet myself and would always recommend (but not force) others do so too - in my opinion there is no good reason not to wear a helmet other than personal choice. However, I also agree with the AMA's conclusion that there is insufficient evidence to support mandatory wearing of helmets on the slopes. Yes, head injuries do occur and yes, helmets will help in the vast majority of head injury situations. The argument is stronger for children who are at higher generic risk of injury on the slopes. In my opinion though, the fact remains that the risk of such an injury remains too small to insist that everyone on the slopes must wear a helmet. It should remain your personal choice at the end of the day. Nevertheless, parents should think long and hard before sending their kids out on the slopes without a lid on......

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Why is that an idiotic comment? My point is that wearing a helmet, whilst protecting against less serious injuries, is of limited use against more serious injuries - not my view, but clearly stated by the experts/studies. It is common for people to use Schumacher's sad accident as a reason for wearing a helmet - whereas in fact it is no such thing, and is an example of how helmets do not provide much protection against serious accidents.

I am not saying that his accident is a reason for not wearing one if you want - it is up to you to assess the risks and benefits for youself.

Not sure of the relevance of the motorcycle point - I believe we are talking about recreational skiing. I have no knowledge of the risk or protection provided by helmets for motorcycles, so have no comment. In particular, I don't think you can apply the logic of wearing a helmet in Motorsport to recreational skiing (and I would and do wear a helmet when engaging in higher risk skiing activities such as racing).

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If you want to wear one, wear one, if you dont then dont. Lets stop bleating on about it.

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@ansta1, I agree, but the title of the thread is about compulsion.

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@tangowaggon, I take it you're not bald? Wouldn't overheat if you had my hairless bonce.

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Helmets - compulsory from next season?

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