 Poster: A snowHead
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Snowheads help me understand where's our data gone?
The law in the UK demands a data processor - Reynard - registers that he & his business handle, keep and process data. He nor SE are listed on the ICO public site.
So help me out, on a normal trip, who gets my son's data file or booking form. 
1. Reynard - definite
2. Ski hire shop - do they get a summary or the full information for skis?
3. Hotel - I guess they must have it?
4. Rep? [we have established that at least they will be CRB or background checked in the thread earlier]
5. who else?
I was a bit annoyed about Reynard but realising the depth of information about children - email, address, date of birth, weight, height that is now "out there" I would like to explore this more.
This appears to be far more black and white than the other legal discussions on fraud etc, so I think its worth pursuing further.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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noskitrip, more black and white but he'd only get a little rap on the knuckles I suspect
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shimmy Alcott, new laws are cleaner and less easier to wriggle out of. This is beautifully fresh and has a nasty sting. Data is big news, data of schoolchildren a bit bigger I guess.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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noskitrip, I certainly hope you are right
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowjoe, There are 2 listed, all settled to a value of circa £6K
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The following message is now on the website:
"The Skiing Europe website is undergoing a major overhaul and will be back up soon. Please contact us as below
Phone: 01404 871500
Email: headoffice@skiing-europe.com
Post: Skiing Europe Idehill Lodge Ball Lane Farway Colyton Devon EX24 6DL"
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| noskitrip wrote: |
[b]
So help me out, on a normal trip, who gets my son's data file or booking form.
1. Reynard - definite
2. Ski hire shop - do they get a summary or the full information for skis?
3. Hotel - I guess they must have it?
4. Rep? [we have established that at least they will be CRB or background checked in the thread earlier]
5. who else?
....
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So what is different here to anything you would need to provide if booking yourself? You want ski's, you provide height, weight and shoe size! Not sure SE do anything different here to any TO ?
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Rightio guys, with regards to my previous statement with regards to SE and my partner being on Radio 4, it has already been on but there is more about CR on this link with also what my partner said.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b0112gv5
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Now that is one damning programme - I'll be surprised if that does not shake up things a wee bit more. Sadly though it is all to reminiscent of the programme I heard in 1995, so I'm not holding my breath.
My LEA and PE adviser warned people off using this guy or any of the companies he was associated with in the late 80s and early 90s. What I cannot understand is why is he still trading?
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| Quote: |
My LEA and PE adviser warned people off using this guy or any of the companies he was associated with in the late 80s and early 90s. What I cannot understand is why is he still trading?
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because (and i know i sound like a broken record) there is no effect national alert system within education, also the lure of the freebie, the reluctance of the 'duped' to go public and face the attention, shame and flak that would come their way (justified or not) ----oh yes MrR understands his market very well.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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leedsunited, yeh i know, but its the elephant in the room 
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snowjoe, My point is that a proper TO works within the requirements of the Data Protection Law.
Search SE or Reynards postcode EX24 at http://www.ico.gov.uk/ESDWebPages/Search.asp Reynard is not registered and lets be nice and say he does comply in the process I am still keen to understand who has all this data as I have no reason at this point to believe our data is protected correctly?
On the booking form that gets sent it has email and contact info of most of the family; this is classified by the legislation as "sensitive data" and is subject to more stringent rules than standard name and address stuff. Add the extra piece that we paid by cheque and all my data and bank information [account now shut] sits out there somewhere, but where?
Passing data files to overseas and what SE should do...the ICO quote follows http://www.ico.gov.uk/
"The Data Protection Act prohibits the transfer of personal information from the UK to other countries unless those countries can ensure the same level of protection. Organisations can also set up contracts with overseas organisations receiving personal information. This ensures that a higher standard of protection is in place than there might have been in the receiving country.
Organisations in the UK which have personal information processed on their behalf overseas are responsible for the security of your information. The UK organisation is required to make sure the company overseas complies fully with the UK Data Protection Act."
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You know it makes sense.
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| dibblette wrote: |
The following message is now on the website:
"The Skiing Europe website is undergoing a major overhaul and will be back up soon. Please contact us as below
Phone: 01404 871500
Email: headoffice@skiing-europe.com
Post: Skiing Europe Idehill Lodge Ball Lane Farway Colyton Devon EX24 6DL" |
That is not the sort of front end you put up when you're giving your website a makeover. That's a Duck and Cover front end.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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noskitrip, He has two addresses 1 trading & 1 registered.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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noskitrip, Having looked at his website it would be fair to say that technically in relation to the DPA it is illegal as he does not on the contact page or anywhere else show or offer a "privacy policy" which if you are taking peoples details should be displayed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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leedsunited, Speaking as someone responsible for the content of my company's web site, I think you are wrong. The Electronic Commerce Regulations 2002 and Companies Act 2006 drive what is required on a commercial web site (and so contact details must be shown). It is advisable to include terms and conditions of website use as well as a Data Protection Act statement - but AFIK that is not mandatory. Obviously if you are you are selling goods and services on line you must define terms and conditions for those.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, As somebody who is also responsible for a company website i can assure you that if you have a contact form and you are taking peoples details ie email addresses and telephone numbers then you must tell people what you are intending to do with the information collected, this will be all covered in your privacy policy which must be available on your site and if you do not have then you are acting illegaly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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leedsunited, mm? I have given the references that I use. rayscoops, has given you his. What reference are you using? I don't recall it when I last plodded through the Data Protection Act but I am very willing to be shown, since it is always hard ot keep on top of every possible angle. FWIW, our trade association has told us that a privacy statement is advisable - and we do have one. But AFIK, it is not a legal requirement.
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To be honest I don't think anyone who is happy to take money on such a scale without feeling that he has to provide at least an explanation in return will be over worried about complying with the DPA.
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tax evasion nailed Al Capone 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, What has the distance selling regulations got to do with the collecting of personal information on a website
Take a look here for what you need to conform to the DPA specifically realting to websites: http://www.amitywebsolutions.co.uk/blog/legal/259-legal-requirements-for-your-website-privacy-policy-tcs-data-protection-and-more/
but if you dont wish to here is the extract
" So What Does My Website Need to Conform?
To ensure your website is legal you must:
All Websites
* For a registered business, the website needs to display the following Company Information: the Business Name, place of registration, registered number, its registered office address and if it is being wound up.
* Adhere to Priority 1 of the Web Accessibility Guidelines set out at W3C
* If the website collects user data (i.e. via simple enquiry form, or shopping cart), display a Privacy Policy informing the user what the business does with the data and that it conforms to the The Data Protection Act "
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| leedsunited wrote: |
| achilles, What has the distance selling regulations got to do with the collecting of personal information on a website |
rayscoops point, not mine, really. Ask him.
I linked you to the Data Protection Act itself, not some site riding on the back of it. I have seen nothing in the DPA that says a web site must have a privacy policy - but if you have found something in it, please refer me to the clause concerned. I don't want to make a big point on this - OTOH if I have missed a trick, I'd like to know for my own reference at work.
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* Adhere to Priority 1 of the Web Accessibility Guidelines set out at W3C |
We are straying a bit off topic here - if you wish to have a thread on web site construction, perhaps you should start one in Apres. But briefly, the guidance for UK sites with respect to disability is either PAS78 or BS 8878 (which I think is still in draft form). Either way, these references are for guidance. The standard does indeed refer to WCAG - but in practice I imagine the EHRC would consider an individual site on its merits and discuss with the owner sensible ways to overcome specific difficulties. I am unaware of any UK site being prosecuted under the DDA. So, with respect to SE (which is what this thread is about) I don't think its degree of accessibility really reflects on the probity of the owner.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
Now that is one damning programme - I'll be surprised if that does not shake up things a wee bit more. Sadly though it is all to reminiscent of the programme I heard in 1995, so I'm not holding my breath.
My LEA and PE adviser warned people off using this guy or any of the companies he was associated with in the late 80s and early 90s. What I cannot understand is why is he still trading? |
Dont lose heart. There was LOTS of new activity this weekend! As rayscoops said Al Capone got tripped on the smaller law. Can ANYONE help with who and where data goes to as per the original Q?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
tax evasion nailed Al Capone
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Given he told AITO that he made a £400k profit on a £2m turnover last year, and given that this year he has taken rather a lot of inocme and offered precious little in return - HMRC might wish to check they Reynard has paid over all his taxes!
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web site looking better! interesting comment
"Our firm is, of course, financially bonded with one of the major insurance companies, IGI Insurance (an ABTA provider). This ensures complete financial security for all our clients."
like the abta link, thats not abta bonded, but well worded to confuse some
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You know it makes sense.
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Stephen101, interesting given what was said in the £Should school ski trips be banned thread" about margins, that's one hell of a high profit margin for a tour operator 20% ! It's almost double the 11% that was quoted.
Skiing Europe also seems to have learnt something from Ryanair about their destination descriptions, in the Bernese Oberland for example they say they go to Wengen, in fact both hotels listed are in Interlaken, one next to Interlaken west station, that possibly means a train journey (not on lift pass) to Interlaken ost (2 mins) then a change of trains to one going to Lauterbrunnen (20 mins) then another change to one going up the mountain (15 mins to Wengen a further 35 or so mins) the other hotel is even further away (on the edge of Lake Thun I think) which I suspect means a coach journey to Lauterbrunnen station each morning and one back at night of arround 30 mins
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Stephen101 wrote: |
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tax evasion nailed Al Capone
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Given he told AITO that he made a £400k profit on a £2m turnover last year, and given that this year he has taken rather a lot of inocme and offered precious little in return - HMRC might wish to check they Reynard has paid over all his taxes! |
I think that is meaningless without a definition of profit, pre-tax /post tax ? which company etc etc. Not really helpful for getting parents/schools money back imho
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
HMRC might wish to check
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Possibly better if they dont as if they do and CR owes then the parents slim chances of getting cash back will evaporate as my understanding is that HMRC takes priority over all other creditors if the buisness is wound up.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I think that is meaningless without a definition of profit, pre-tax /post tax ? which company etc etc. Not really helpful for getting parents/schools money back imho
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Au contraire - if it forces Reynard into bankruptcy and triggers the insurance, which I have always thought is likely to be the quickest and most likely form of recovery. HMRC are not known for acting with kid gloves when they get involved. AITO said it was a personal trading statement. The fact that AITO saw a profit last year is also a further piece of evidence that there is likley to be something else going on here other than difficult trading conditions.
kevindonkleywood, You can be pretty certain that however Reynard may be forced into bankruptcy that HMRC will want take their place in the queue.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As an altruist and outsider watching from the sidelones only, it seems to me that whether the parents get their money back is possibly not the main issue (although obviously it is for some of them).
More important , and I stress, IMHO, is
(a) making sure that such behaviour as is alleged by CR is not repeated or repeatable by him or his company.
(b) identifying and possibly developing a cost-effective due diligence system to prevent non-professional risk managers from being duped in the future
The latter obviously needs a wide base, but with social networking resources now ubiqitous, I would have thought an early warning system or shared data capability could be fairly cost-effective. LEAs are not in competition (yet... ) so pooling resrouce and disseminating info / providing lookup facility is something that could be set up relatively easily.
Of course nailing CR's hide to the wall is also a revenge dish that some might enjoy...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Stephen101, are you now relying and placing validity upon what CR says about his financial status in this instance when his entire business model seems to be supported by half truths Insurances have most likely been invalidated by CR's actions and ommissions as discussed a few pages ago.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Insurances have most likely been invalidated by CR's actions and ommissions as discussed a few pages ago.
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That is not the view of AITO who have now stated so twice on the BBC (and on earlier pages) - and I can assure you that they will have looked at this more closely than yourself.
No I am not placing any validity on what CR says - I am just pointing out that his accounts are contrary according to hIs audience - and that is further grounds for the authorities to continue their investigations. HMRC are also one of the more ruthless and effective authorities around and may have the power to accelerate things somewhat.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Arctic Roll,
You make some good points - re the LEAs - I have a horrible suspicion that the LEAs may not have approeciated the need to perform proper credit control doesn't just apply to their sales but also when payments are made in advance for purchases (as with school holidays). The fiasco with deposits in Icelandic banks demonstrated that local authorities are not particularly good when it comes to identifying and managing credit risk. Also need to bear in mind that schools are increasingly becoming more independent from LEAs.
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
More important , and I stress, IMHO, is
(a) making sure that such behaviour as is alleged by CR is not repeated or repeatable by him or his company.
(b) identifying and possibly developing a cost-effective due diligence system to prevent non-professional risk managers from being duped in the future
Of course nailing CR's hide to the wall is also a revenge dish that some might enjoy... |
2500 private schools and 3127 secondary schools, many of those are independent of the LEA. A big task but any comms to that rich list of schools, that is actually guaranteed a reader, would surely get swamped by advertising in a heartbeat?
Doesn't mean you shouldn't try - and I wonder what it would of said in this instance?
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 6-06-11 9:05; edited 1 time in total
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| leedsunited wrote: |
| snowjoe, There are 2 listed, all settled to a value of circa £6K |
Thanks. Missed this. So a couple of CCJs against SE Limited. Small values. Possibly for unpaid professional services bills or wages and settled when the CCJs got issued.
And not related to CR trading as SE business or the actual school holidays deposits at all?
I am assuming there is legal processes happening full swing by now. When do those make it public?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
and settled when the CCJs got issued
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If a CCJ is showing it means it is an unsatisfied County Court judgement. If you get a County Court judgement against you and you settle it, you don't get a CCJ against your address/company. In reality it should be called a UCCJ, but it isn't. I'm pretty sure that's the way it works. That's why winning in court is only half the battle - you can win and then you have the problem of actually getting the money.
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Bode Swiller, Good info, from the fact that it is sitting in the credit report then we can assume it is UCCJ.
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FAQ
