Interested in some collective views around boot flex in touring boots.
Probably want an all round boot with downhill performance as important as up, as I plan on using my touring skis/boots for lift served powder as well as touring. Especially as the big 121 underfoot Volkls will most likely be mainly lift served skiing when the conditions allow.
Would you go for the same flex as a normal downhill boot? In my instance a 130 flex.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@swskier, these are what you need, probably the 130's
I ski GS Race skis with mine and then tour with them the next day.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kitenski wrote:
Just looking at ski pack weigh, as off to Norway in April for a 7 day tour, my Patrol E2 is 2720g empty, something like the Atomic Backland 30+ is 990g empty! That's quite a difference (obv lighter one doesn't have an airbag!)
So for "stable" days do regular tourers take out a lighter pack, or always take the airbag, "just in case"?
A couple of things on Lofoten / arctic:
1) Touring at sea level is a whole lot easier than touring in the alps so if you do take the heavier bag, it ain't the end of the world if you're fit. I lug a 40 litre airbag with camera kit / spare lenses / crampons / axe et al no worries. One day I'll discover dropping a couple of kgs will be a good idea. I'd say take what you feel most comfortable with.
2) Lofoten in April isn't like the alps in April: we've discovered very hairy avi conditions and weak layers that can catch you out and it can easily be full-on winter conditions...that can turn on very rapidly. Other times it can be very much spring but the whole 'don't worry about avalanches cos it's a smashing corn fest of glee' doesn't necessarily hold true Simon will keep you out of trouble but again, take what you're comfortable with.
I would keep an eye on the snowpack - Northern Alpine Guides on the insta and Norwegian avi service between them give a good idea of what things will be like. A week or two out you'll have a good idea.
Annoyingly in some ways, I can get these on the pro deal, but only delivered to the UK as the pro deal isn't available through Amersports when you live in Austria (from what I can tell!)
I had looked at them though. I need to try a pair on before I go ahead and order any online (hope CEM doesn't read this )
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@swskier, I also have a one ski boot for all that is the Hawk Prime 130 XTD (supplied and fitted by CEM despite amersports deal!). I've not done any gates with them but seem to be fine hooning around on cheater Volkl stiff GS piste skis
@Sharkymark, cheers for that, any other Lofoten tips greatly received via PM if you don't want to post in here! Is this the link/app for the avi service? https://www.varsom.no/
Just out of interest where do you carry your crampons, which as you don't actually ski but board, I know are quite substantial and for most AirBags they would probably take up most of the room?
I know you asked Boarder2020 this not me... but.... I have room in my 32 avi pack for my *ski* crampons and all other day touring kit. I don't think I could take my boot crampons as well as everything else I usually take. To take ski and boot crampons I would have to make some compromises - poles on the outside, couple of bars not a pack lunch, half the water in a soft flask clipped onto the waist belt or similar.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@kat.ryb, confused thought you were a boarder?
Just that Splitboard crampons are obviously a fair bit larger than ski crampons unless of course you're riding 148 DPS
@swskier, I also have a one ski boot for all that is the Hawk Prime 130 XTD (supplied and fitted by CEM despite amersports deal!). I've not done any gates with them but seem to be fine hooning around on cheater Volkl stiff GS piste skis
@Sharkymark, cheers for that, any other Lofoten tips greatly received via PM if you don't want to post in here! Is this the link/app for the avi service? https://www.varsom.no/
Yes, Varsom's the one. Yr.no used to have excellent avi info too but it doesn't anymore AFAIK. The app is excellent though and fairly accurate given how variable and localised the weather can be. Happy to share here too - a Wally's guide to the arctic perhaps haha
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@BobinCH, Svalbard's been on the list for a while: do you need HARA cover for it? I guess you do. Who are you going with?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
Just that Splitboard crampons are obviously a fair bit larger than ski crampons
A bit. My snowboard crampons are around 13/14cm wide. I'm guessing most skiers are using around 10cm? Not such a big deal imo. But I spend the summers carrying a big backpack for multi day hiking so maybe my outlook is different.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Sharkymark wrote:
@BobinCH, Svalbard's been on the list for a while: do you need HARA cover for it? I guess you do. Who are you going with?
What is HARA cover? A local Swiss guide has organized our trip, staying on the S/V Linden
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:
Just that Splitboard crampons are obviously a fair bit larger than ski crampons
A bit. My snowboard crampons are around 13/14cm wide. I'm guessing most skiers are using around 10cm? Not such a big deal imo. But I spend the summers carrying a big backpack for multi day hiking so maybe my outlook is different.
I'm confused, on the previous page you said you always use an AirBag, that's why I asked the crampon question?
As I know they're huge and my mate has to use a big 48lt pack for all the associated bits n'pices that come with splitboard touring, though you can just about get away with a day-pack.
Off out on the E-Mtb shortly with the skis and mutt to take a look at another valley.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Touring towards the Italian border paying dividends at the moment
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@BobinCH, oh nice, I figured you’d be on a yacht.
High altitude remote access for insurance. Depends on the insurance company: I’m through the BMC and they have additional cover for this. It’s worth checking whoever you have insurance with. Greenland needs HARA for example and I’d imagine Svalbard is considered similarly remote but I maybe wrong! Your guide would’ve mentioned it if you needed it though.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Sharkymark wrote:
@BobinCH, oh nice, I figured you’d be on a yacht.
High altitude remote access for insurance. Depends on the insurance company: I’m through the BMC and they have additional cover for this. It’s worth checking whoever you have insurance with. Greenland needs HARA for example and I’d imagine Svalbard is considered similarly remote but I maybe wrong! Your guide would’ve mentioned it if you needed it though.
Thanks will check. We are patrons of REGA in CH which covers rescue and repatriation worldwide but I haven’t checked the fine print.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@BobinCH, you may well be covered but deffo worth a check. I would imagine Swiss insurance cover is very comprehensive.
Touring up the Grand St Bernard?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sharkymark wrote:
@BobinCH, you may well be covered but deffo worth a check. I would imagine Swiss insurance cover is very comprehensive.
Alas yes and my wife has gone today and just sent me this
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Weathercam wrote:
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:
Just that Splitboard crampons are obviously a fair bit larger than ski crampons
A bit. My snowboard crampons are around 13/14cm wide. I'm guessing most skiers are using around 10cm? Not such a big deal imo. But I spend the summers carrying a big backpack for multi day hiking so maybe my outlook is different.
I'm confused, on the previous page you said you always use an AirBag, that's why I asked the crampon question?
As I know they're huge and my mate has to use a big 48lt pack for all the associated bits n'pices that come with splitboard touring, though you can just about get away with a day-pack.
Off out on the E-Mtb shortly with the skis and mutt to take a look at another valley.
I'd say your mate is packing too much
My snowboard crampons take up less space than my boot crampons. I usually just take one or the other depending on route. I can get snowboard crampons, water, light down jacket, shell jacket, and mini multi tool in my 22l bag quite easily. Helmet on outside. Tend to carry snacks in pockets (more so because I know I'm more likely to eat them if I don't have to take the bag off to access them). When I transition I put on at least the shell jacket which makes space for the skins. I tend to ride with my poles as they are quite handy, but if I don't want them can attach them to the outside of my bag.
Just that Splitboard crampons are obviously a fair bit larger than ski crampons
A bit. My snowboard crampons are around 13/14cm wide. I'm guessing most skiers are using around 10cm? Not such a big deal imo. But I spend the summers carrying a big backpack for multi day hiking so maybe my outlook is different.
I'm confused, on the previous page you said you always use an AirBag, that's why I asked the crampon question?
As I know they're huge and my mate has to use a big 48lt pack for all the associated bits n'pices that come with splitboard touring, though you can just about get away with a day-pack.
Off out on the E-Mtb shortly with the skis and mutt to take a look at another valley.
I'd say your mate is packing too much
My snowboard crampons take up less space than my boot crampons. I usually just take one or the other depending on route. I can get snowboard crampons, water, light down jacket, shell jacket, and mini multi tool in my 22l bag quite easily. Helmet on outside. Tend to carry snacks in pockets (more so because I know I'm more likely to eat them if I don't have to take the bag off to access them). When I transition I put on at least the shell jacket which makes space for the skins. I tend to ride with my poles as they are quite handy, but if I don't want them can attach them to the outside of my bag.
Reckon I could get by with 48l for an overnight camping trip
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Weathercam, ah yes I am a boarder but I would call the crampons that go on the split skis "ski crampons" as opposed to boot crampons! Sorry for confusion!
After all it is free
After all it is free
BobinCH wrote:
Sharkymark wrote:
@BobinCH, so you do do SOME work then
Alas yes and my wife has gone today and just sent me this
How vexing
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
boarder2020 wrote:
......My snowboard crampons take up less space than my boot crampons. I usually just take one or the other depending on route. I can get snowboard crampons, water, light down jacket, shell jacket, and mini multi tool in my 22l bag quite easily.........
Did you but the 22l by mistake
For someone who says they tour solo in far-off backcountry locations and all that entails, I'm amazed at you opting for a 22l ABS, most on here know that a 22l is really only good for in resort off-piste and would not consider that size for ski-touring, let alone snowboard touring?
Those who have bought 22l have quickly found that out!
We found some rather lush terrain yesterday
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
For someone who says they tour solo in far-off backcountry locations and all that entails, I'm amazed at you opting for a 22l ABS, most on here know that a 22l is really only good for in resort off-piste and would not consider that size for ski-touring, let alone snowboard touring?
I'm not really sure why you think snowboarders are carrying lots of extra gear in their bags compared to skiers?
I bought the backpack a long time ago, before I really even really considered the idea of multiday tours. If I was to buy today I probably would go slightly bigger, but like I say it is absolutely fine. You can see above what I pack for a normal day - there is nothing else I need and I even have some extra space left.
I'm mostly doing single day trips from villages. If I want to do overnight I'll pack the airbag inside a bigger backpack, go up the valley and set up a base camp, and then do day tours from there. But even then, sometimes it's possible to use horses or snowmobiles for access and stay in yurts which makes things even easier.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@boarder2020, looking at your packing list, I'd need and extra 5 or 6l for my lunch
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Arno, are you sure? That's a lot of dried cod
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Some Jyrgalan photos for you:
You can spot some skiers further along the ridge and some of the group descending
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Sharkymark, in the Alps and the greater ranges it’s more about champagne, foie gras and fowl
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Arno wrote:
@Sharkymark, in the Alps and the greater ranges it’s more about champagne, foie gras and fowl
And don’t forget the portable Fondue set
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
I'm not really sure why you think snowboarders are carrying lots of extra gear in their bags compared to skiers?
I guess in the apls I always take my split ski crampons, and skiers don't always take those? Apart from that I can't think of anything additional a split boarder needs vs skiier?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I actually toured snowboarding for around ten years, before seeing the light and going back to skis.
I was using approach skis by the end whilst two mates were early adopters of Voile Split boards, and they use to have to carry a number of spares such was the fragility of the gear.
One mate still tours with us, but on far more up to date spec, Karakorum or something, not been back out since COVID etc
Still can't understand how you find a 22lt AirBag sufficient.
I know Spiltboard skins are wider/heavier than ski ones and couteaux again wider heavier.
I aways carry a spare puffa, first aid kit, bivvy and other paraphernalia, skin wax, scraper, tape, bike toe clip strap, cable ties and a multi-tool, then water bottle, sometimes two, and then obviously like more space to stuff layers in when climbing, luckily I don't use goggles or a helmet!
Oh and a baguette sandwich
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well i don't carry: spare jacket, first aid kit, bivvy, skin wax, scraper, bike toe clips strap.
I'm not sure snowboard skins are actually much more heavy. They are wider, but also shorter. I'd guess it's close to evening out.
For example G3 universal ski skins in small length weight = 249g - 308g depending on width of skin. Same skin splitboard version in small/medium length = 277g.
My ski crampons are a little under 14cm wide when nestled together. So yes in comparison to traditional ski crampons a fair bit wider, but we are probably talking 3-4cm which is the grand scheme of things I cant get too worked up over. Weight is 336g, I'm sure there are some much lighter ski ones, but again I'm not really bothered about 336g it's not a big deal to me. To be honest the ski crampons don't really get used very often anyway, it's rare I even take them out.
A little video of transitioning, taking skins off and putting them back on with a minimum amount of faff, without using cheat-sheets, especially good when it's windy and multiple transitions.
It does take practice to get it right, and an indelible marker halfway down the skin helps you know where to fold the skin back.
In Siberia I just put the skins in my jacket, which has skin pockets, and didn't even have to take back-pack off.
@kat.ryb, I have some Swedish mates who do the occasional skimo race and they can rip their's off quite quickly, but larger skis not as easy, though they do try
Some classic Serre Che slack country today, and I was going to have an easy day, and just go off the back to take a look thinking the snow would run out, but it just got better and better the lower down I went (cold wind up top), and snow all the way to the valley floor.
Vallon de Chambran
And then the climb back up was interesting (and needed ski crampons) as at the Col I go over there's normally a summer footpath sign that has the top part showing, but totally buried this year, and far more snow in the valley floor at 1750m than I was expecting too.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sharing a reply I got from ATK on the main differences between the RT and Raider models
The great difference between Raider EVO and the other models is the release adjustment in the toe pieces.
The "normal" toe pieces are made with the average value than the heel adjustment, while with the EVO Raider have the toe adjustment to fit on the user need.
With R11, R13 or R15 the users will experience a perfectly balanced retention between the toe and heel pieces (50%-50%).
In addition, Raider EVO have an automatic brake system, only turning the heel part you can lock or activing the brake.
Obviously between the RT model and the Raider model there is also a weight difference (the second is heavier).
In combitation with stiff boots and an use more freeride oriented you can choice RAIDER 11 EVO or RAIDER 10 AP (without release adjustment in the toe pieces).
Otherwise if you prefer a greater lightness and with touring boots you can evaluate RT 8 EVO or CREST 8 AP .
However, all listed models are compatible with AL13 - FREERIDE SPACER, to a best transfer of the loads directly on the ski.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I've had my eye on ATK for a while - when my MTNs need replacing, that maybe the way to go. They pack a lot in for their weight: 30g lighter per ski than the MTN Tour (the latest equivalent to the original MTN) with adjustable release at toe and heel and flex compensation - neither of which the MTN has. It's not worth replacing them straight up IMO though; the only feature that would make a significant different to the feel of the ski is the flex compensation. The MTNs ski superbly and transmit force well to the ski - the brake mechanism doubles up as a stomp pad a la the 'freeride spacer'. The brake mechanism feels more substantial on the MTNs too. I'll see how the brands' ranges are looking in a year or two!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Also, the MTNs are fairly low delta - how do the ATKs compare? I HATE large ramp angles - used to run 10mm of shims under my dynafits.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I have the ATK raider 13 evo which I like a lot. The delta is I think 8mm, which is too much for me. I stuck on a 4mm toe shim (from Atk). I need to experiment a bit, but might shim more.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Simon will keep you out of trouble but again, take what you're comfortable with.
