 Poster: A snowHead
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@Beltedgalloway2015, Really I have no idea why you have been so patient with them.
I have time for companies who have tried to do their best, and will give them a fair chance to put it right, but if they treat you badly, then send them a warning before enforcement notice, then begin recovery proceedings.
https://www.gov.uk/make-money-claim
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Snowfinders wrote: |
| Beltedgalloway2015 wrote: |
"Still no refund from Alpine Elements. They're fighting very hard to avoid their legal obligations. Anyone would be mad to risk a deposit with these thieves and liars."
I CONCUR!
I and doubtless MANY OTHERS find ourselves still unauthorised creditors for Alpine Elements and hanging on in hope for a refund nearly a year after paying up fully for a March 20 trip.
Irony of irony is their "Covid refund guarantee" for "new" customers for 20/21 season.
Not even the lift pass cost refunded:-absolutely nothing bar a not asked for "Credit Note".
No intention of ever using this company again nor recommending anyone use to use them.
CRYSTALSKI/TUI have been EXCELLENT! |
Curiously AE are no longer ABTA members and if you search on the CAA website it no longer displays them as ATOL holders yet their website displays both and they still claim to be ATOL bonded. Maybe a mistake by the CAA? |
A search of ATOL and ABTA members on their websites draw blanks too !!! So in theory any new bookings are not ATOL and/or ABTA bonded
Wonder if they jumped or were they pushed ????
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yep, definitely do NOT appear to be a member of ABTA any longer. However this has not stopped them from using the ABTA logo beside the word "Protected" on their home page.
Deception and misleading as ever. Generally cute enough to not actually state "We are ABTA/ATOL members/protected" but they do quote their former ABTA number way down amongst some T&Cs.
So I don't think it's a theory that new bookings are in any way protected and their refund cancellation T&Cs probably mean anyone has actually no chance of a refund???? Too much jargon for me to absorb....
On another forum one person has been "generous" enough to suggest that non membership means technically they could still take you to resort against FCO guidelines..... A bit of a stretch methinks?? Who is flying against FCO guidelines? The only other options semi realistically being self travel self catering.
Regardless absolutely no updates given by Alpine Elements regarding awaited refunds and the ramifications of their now non ABTA membership.
I have e-mailed and await their latest BS if indeed they reply.
Also awaiting an update from someone who has gone down the Small Claims Court route.
Basically I had sent them all the warnings of this and they are still unmoved. Unfortunately my ski partner did not want to lay out yet more money and said she was prepared to await a refund 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Looking deeper into the CAA/ATOL website I've found this:
https://www.caa.co.uk/ATOL-protection/Trade/Maintain-and-renew-your-ATOL/Companies-that-have-not-renewed-their-ATOL/
List 1 suggests that AE, "Ski 4 Less Ltd" and "Ski Club Winter Arrangements Ltd" had applied to renew their ATOLs by 30 September but the renewals had not yet been granted.
The wesite goes on to say:
"This document contains a list of firms who have applied to renew their licences, but have failed to do so as at midnight 30 September 2020. In some cases the CAA has yet to reach a decision on their application, in others the CAA has decided to grant the application from the date on which the firm provides the items required to grant the renewal. Inclusion on this list does not necessarily mean that the CAA has doubts as to the firm’s financial resources."
Watch this space!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am no authority on the different levels of "protection" afforded by ATOL compared to ABTA. But it was to ABTA that the Citizens' Advice Bureau guided, me in order to raise a complaint against Alpine Elements.
ABTA proved to be a toothless tiger and a waste of time and effort...........
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Nemisis wrote: |
Looking deeper into the CAA/ATOL website I've found this:
https://www.caa.co.uk/ATOL-protection/Trade/Maintain-and-renew-your-ATOL/Companies-that-have-not-renewed-their-ATOL/
List 1 suggests that AE, "Ski 4 Less Ltd" and "Ski Club Winter Arrangements Ltd" had applied to renew their ATOLs by 30 September but the renewals had not yet been granted.
The wesite goes on to say:
"This document contains a list of firms who have applied to renew their licences, but have failed to do so as at midnight 30 September 2020. In some cases the CAA has yet to reach a decision on their application, in others the CAA has decided to grant the application from the date on which the firm provides the items required to grant the renewal. Inclusion on this list does not necessarily mean that the CAA has doubts as to the firm’s financial resources."
Watch this space! |
Ski Club Winter Arrangements Ltd is the ski holiday subsidiary of SCGB !
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Praise for Village Montana from me, we had consecutive weeks booked for late Jan/early Feb 2021 at one of their apartment blocks in Val d'Isere and another in Val Thorens which I reluctantly cancelled last weekend, and within 5 working days they refunded me my deposit on both. We had an excellent stay with them last season too. Hopefully they'll come out the other side of the pandemic unscathed and I'll certainly stay with them again as soon as we are able to.
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from the ABTA website - familiar name at the bottom
ABTA Member search
Look for an ABTA Member before booking your holiday
When you book with one of our Members, you can relax and travel with confidence. You can be safe in the knowledge that you’ve booked with a reputable company and, you can access our comprehensive range of support, protection and expertise should you need it.
Remember that not all travel companies are ABTA Members so check before you book and read our top tips on how to avoid being caught out.
Financial protection
Package holidays sold to you in the European Economic Area (EEA) by ABTA Members are financially protected so that if your travel company fails, you’ll be able to continue your holiday as planned or get your money back. Package holidays that are for less than 24 hours, or are for business travel, may not be protected.
When booking your holiday you should always check what type of protection is in place. For more information, see our guide to financial protection.
Unauthorised use of the ABTA Logo
Use of the ABTA logo is a benefit of ABTA membership and can only be used with ABTA’s express permission.
ABTA has been informed that the companies below are currently showing the ABTA logo on their website or marketing material and emails. These companies are not ABTA Members and have no right to use the ABTA logo or to claim that they are a member of ABTA. The relevant authorities have been informed.
If you have booked with one of these companies and have a complaint you should contact your local Trading Standards and Citizens Advice Bureau for further advice.
Joy Travel UK Ltd
Luxe Travels
Jamaal Travels Ltd Logo displayed on advertising
Rockers Cruises Logo displayed on advertising
Cheapflightuks Logo displayed on advertising
CheapsFlight.co.uk Logo displayed on advertising
UK Cheap Tickets Logo displayed on email signatures
cheaptravelsgroup.co.uk Logo displayed on emails
Ultimate Travels ultimatetravels.co.uk
Mega Festivals Ltd T/A Spring Break Amsterdam springbreakamsterdam.co.uk
Lyne Barlow Independent Travel Ltd Reference to ABTA on paperwork
Albatross Events Advertising material and social media
MA Travel matravel.co.uk
Hotel Man instagram.com/hotel_man/
Flamingo Holidays flamingoholidays.co.uk
Alpine Elements Ltd alpineelements.co.uk
You can check whether a company is an ABTA Member at the top of this page using the company name, address or ABTA number.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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also ATOL - thanks Nemisis for the link
Consumer and Markets Group
Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing
1 October 2020 Page 1 of 3
September 2020 – Renewal of Air Travel Organisers’ Licences
1 List of late renewing ATOL holders who no longer hold an ATOL at 1 October 2020
1.1 This document contains a list of firms who have applied to renew their licences, but have failed to do so as at midnight 30 September 2020. In some cases the CAA has yet to reach a decision on their application, in others the CAA has decided to grant the application from the date on which the firm provides the items required to grant the renewal. Inclusion on this list does not necessarily mean that the CAA has doubts as to the firm’s financial resources.
1.2 Until the firms appearing on this list have renewed their licence, they are not permitted to advertise or accept bookings or payments unless they are acting as an agent on behalf, and with the authority, of a disclosed ATOL holder or are acting as an airline ticket agent.
2 The List
A K Travel Worldwide Ltd
10846
A Million Miles Ltd
T7606
A&D Holidays Ltd
7352
Abdullah Travels Ltd
11401
Active Consultancy Ltd
5277
Advanced Travel Partners UK Ltd
5017
Air Partner PLC
2424
Airline Business Ltd
6631
Akbar Travels Of India Limited
10951
Alpine Elements Ltd
6435
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Jet 2 just cancelled our BHX Grenoble flights for 16th Jan 21 week. Email saying automatic refund. Grateful for how simple they seem to have made it, wish them well and hope to be using their services for a ski trip sometime soon.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Now that ski amis have gone bust I'm having to fill in barclaycard forms to get back the credit from last March (which I'd hoped to use next spring). I've also just claimed for vipski for this coming season.
In each case it looked like my claim would fall to the CAA/ATOL, but they insist I go to the credit card provider.
Which incidentally makes me nervous of those ski holiday operators who won't take payment by credit card.
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On a positive note, had flights to Norway with KLM booked for Christmas. Obviously holiday not happening so applied for KLM voucher then changed it to refund. Refunds came through today. All in all about 6 weeks, all done online.
Another airline who will get my business again
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You know it makes sense.
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Failed trip for next week due to French lockdown, got immediate refund from Action Outdoors (UCPA). Had a few different flight bookings. Lufthansa refund was quite quick. Still waiting for easyJet and Brussels air refunds.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Easyjet, anyone here with experience of refunds or credits?
We have flights booked from Austria to Gatwick on 2nd Jan 2021, but that holiday is a non-starter if it's true that hotels are closed.
Anyone here had similar Easyjet circumstances this year, or coming up, please?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Timberwolf wrote: |
EJ cancelled my Christmas flight on Friday, removing what, to be fair, was only the faintest glimmer of hope of getting away in December. I don't want a voucher. I want a refund.......even selecting that option requires the most careful clicking !
Now, although their "policy" is eventually available on their website, it is, quite frankly, ridiculously protracted.
30th Oct - I receive an email informing me they have received my refund request
<>
They have given themselves 30 days to check the validity of any refund claims...........they cancelled the flight remember 
<>
29 Nov - i will receive a follow up email about my refund request, and if my claim is successful ( they cancelled the flight remember ! )
<>
They then give themselves a further 10 days to process the refund.
<>
09 Dec - I should get my refund........
This is a bit shonky is it not ? .......they cancelled the flight remember |
Quick update........
So, early November ( maybe 5th or 6th ) i decided to follow some advice given here and contact EasyJet using the email address esupport@easyjet.com. I quoted my booking ref, explained what had happened, and pressed send. After a fairly short rally of email tennis, my request for a refund was agreed to...... success, or so I thought....... after a couple of weeks of checking my credit card account online, and no refund appearing, i contact them again. I had a response within hours assuring me a refund had been processed on the 10th November. I waited 10 or so working days and still nothing on my account. On 29th November, i contacted them again, to be told the same information that a refund had been processed and that if it hadn’t appeared on my account, I should contact my bank for assistance. I did. Bank were ever so helpful, and began a dispute with EasyJet. Today, a credit has appeared on my account as a result of the dispute, and just now another credit has appeared in what appears to be the original refund. FFS........ these organisations don’t help themselves do they 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Alpine elements have gone into administration.
Good luck with anyone still trying to get money out of them.
Their email states that they will be looking to start up again......
.....once someone else has cleaned up their mess !!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What I regard as "phoenixing" is when someone:
1: walks away from all the debts
2: in not so few words tells the creditors to get stuffed
3: buys the important assets (mailing list and anything else worth having such as some furniture for the restart) from the administrator/liquidator for as few peanuts as possile (maybe even charging to take them away?)
4: starts again saying that "we have been organising quality ski holidays for so many years" meaning it's not the company but the members of the team.
And says that is what the plan is!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IMPORTANT NEWS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF ALPINE ELEMENTS
I would like to let you all know that we placed Alpine Elements into Administration this afternoon (December 8th) and have appointed Administrators. I am deeply sorry for this outcome, but it has been without question one of the hardest decisions I have had to make in 23 years of running my Company.
We have tried so hard, (for so long), to try and find a way through this, but the devastating effects of COVID with its continued travel restrictions, lockdowns and - crucially for us - the lack of UK Government support and guidance, have left us in an impossible situation.
To this day, we are yet to receive refunds from the many suppliers to whom we have paid money for your holiday: like flights, accommodation, catering and other services. Without those refunds we have not had the available cash to refund you. With President Macron’s announcement that the ski season is now unable to start, we will not be able to meet our Jan 30th deadline for refunds, set by ABTA. Like many other travel businesses, I am therefore forced into making this very difficult decision; one that my team and I have fought against for so long.
We would like to reassure you that your holiday is protected by ATOL or ABTA. Therefore, you will receive a full cash refund for all monies paid to Alpine Elements Ltd in due course. Our Administrators will write to you within 24 hours to advise you of how to make your refund claim. Whilst we will no longer be able to help you directly with these claims, my remaining team and I will continue to work with our Administrators to ensure you are handled courteously and that you get a full refund.
What happens with Alpine Elements? In accordance with the UK legal system we engaged an Insolvency Practitioner to help us try to find a buyer for Alpine Elements Ltd. We had serious interest from some very large organisations, but no substantial offers. I was then faced with the awful reality of ‘no deal’ and the discontinuation of Alpine. In short, the complete loss of 23 years of work.
We have since been working tirelessly to find investment and a buyer for the Alpine Elements brand. I can announce that very recently we succeeded in finding a backer which allows the brand to restart.
Together with our investors, I am confident that with your support and understanding, we can bring the ‘Alpine Elements’ brand and our unique and much-loved style back to you – to make our Company stronger than before.
I do understand that this process has been difficult and protracted for many of you, and I am so deeply sorry that it has come to this. I have put a lifetime of work into Alpine Elements and since starting in 1997 - with a one-chalet operation in Morzine - we have grown to become one of the largest Independent Ski Tour Operators in the UK.
It is thanks to you and thousands of other loyal customers - The Alpine Elements Family - that has made our Company great. You have all helped me create such an exciting and well-loved brand; and your devotion, friendliness and spirit has helped me turn my passion for snow sports and sailing into a company where I can share my adventure.
I know of no other way of life; and so, with a little time, I hope to bring Alpine Elements back to you, stronger than before.
James
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Another EasyJet cracker. Nice of Eazyjet to welcome us onboard next week for a flight to Innsbruck. Refusing a refund or voucher but happy to allow us to move the flight to another date at our cost.
Any advice?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Matrix wrote: |
Another EasyJet cracker. Nice of Eazyjet to welcome us onboard next week for a flight to Innsbruck. Refusing a refund or voucher but happy to allow us to move the flight to another date at our cost.
Any advice? |
Identical boat as yours, but for a Salzburg to Gatwick flight on 2nd Jan.
Easyjet have stubbornly (preserving all of our cash) not cancelled the flight as such. Instead they’ve seemingly shifted all Salzburg travellers that day onto one flight, knowing full well it will likely be mainly no shows .... due to no hotels open etc. Carefully making sure that all their flight changes are within the x hours in which they won’t issue refunds.
Guessing this was their game, yesterday I went into manage my bookings and switched to a random unpopular flight in April. At it was unpopular, their was no extra charge. I’ll then do this once or twice more in the future as Easyjet release flights, until I get one we’ll really want.
As an aside, I wonder if they’ve consolidated many more people onto that one remaining Salzburg flight, than it has seats, knowing they can get away with that with ease.
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Mark Warner cancelled my ski holiday scheduled for 28th Feb as expected. This was a rescheduled trip which was cancelled from the previous year. I have requested a refund and they have refused. Appreciate that its not a good time for tour operators at the moment - but many of us have businesses that are being badly affected by the current restrictions. Mark Warner are in breach of Package holiday regulations and their own T's and C's. Anyone else in the same boat?
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I was in the same boat from my original holiday booked March 2020. Discussions with Mark Warner went nowhere, so I eventually raised a charge dispute with Amex. This briefly got the money credited to my account, but Mark Warner sent back their position citing the force majeur clause in their T&Cs, and so the money disappeared again.
Next step was to file a Section 75 (I actually thought I was doing that in the previous step, but turns out it wasn't). However, Amex (and I imagine many others) are so snowed under with claims that this hadn't moved anywhere after six months (there's no statutory time-limit to have S75 claims resolved).
So, I finally resorted to filing for a CCJ with money claims online - v. straightforward process - and paid my £110 fee. A few days before the judgement was due, Mark Warner contacted me, apologized, and arranged to reimburse me, including the fee.
I would advise going straight to this latter route if you're set on getting your money back - otherwise you'll waste a whole lot more time.
Edit: removed Abbreviations
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 27-01-21 18:09; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Pejuli that is super helpful. I paid cash so can't go down the chargeback route. Travel Weekly have picked up the story and are going to press on their appalling customer service. I'm just in the process of completing the CCJ on line form - I was wondering if you got awarded the fee back as it looks like they add it to the total claim.
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In the good category I want to put trailfinders! Holiday booked for April to go to Aus. We had paid the deposit but not the balance. They phoned us up a week ago said we are cancelling all packages to Australia as we think it wont be open. And offered us 4 options.
A) move to different dates
B) voucher no expiry date
C) full refund
D) wait and hope
We asked for a full refund and the money is already back on the card I paid with. Also when we picked the refund there was no haggling or anything.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Trailfinders have a policy of holding the travellers money in an eschew (i think thats how you spell it) account so its not in their pot and sits there until you have actually travelled. So unlike most travel firms they arent using future peoples money to pay for todays travel.
We used them to go to Australia is 2017 - service great from booking through to coming home.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Artois wrote: |
| @Pejuli that is super helpful. I paid cash so can't go down the chargeback route. Travel Weekly have picked up the story and are going to press on their appalling customer service. I'm just in the process of completing the CCJ on line form - I was wondering if you got awarded the fee back as it looks like they add it to the total claim. |
Yes, I got the fee as well from Mark Warner (but not the interest that the money claims process calculates - which I was fine with)
Edit: I just checked, and I think I got the whole lot back, interest and all.
Edit: removed abbreviations
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 27-01-21 18:10; edited 2 times in total
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@Pejoli ( spelt it right this time!!)
Thanks - they've had the money for 18 months now - but I'd let them off any interest just to get the rest of it back!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Just so folks know the subject of 'interest' in terms of the claims is a murky one, because technically it only becomes part of the calculation at the point of cancellation in a lot of situations.
As an example.
You booked and paid in full for a 2021 holiday in 2019. Due to covid, or other reasons it was cancelled in 2020. You can't claim for interest (on credit card or loss of savings) as a result of that unless it was known and can be proven that the provider knew that it was going to be cancelled. the assumption is you would have had plans to pay off any balance anyway, or accept any interest if you didn't from you cc issuer.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Pejoli wrote: |
..Yes, I got the fee as well from MW (but not the interest that the money claims process calculates - which I was fine with)
Edit: I just checked, and I think I got the whole lot back, interest and all. |
"MW" is also a ski company which did not try to steal customer funds, so perhaps the full Mark Warner is needed.
Well done for getting the courts to sort it.
I don't buy the "Amex are busy" line; they charge a lot of money and have massive infrastructure, that doesn't cut it.
Well, try not paying your bill to them next month and see how long the "I'm busy" excuse lasts when the boot's on the other foot.
If people do have cash outstanding, and if the supplier is dicking them around, I'd be minded to get it legally whilst they still have it to give.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| philwig wrote: |
| Pejoli wrote: |
..Yes, I got the fee as well from MW (but not the interest that the money claims process calculates - which I was fine with)
Edit: I just checked, and I think I got the whole lot back, interest and all. |
"MW" is also a ski company which did not try to steal customer funds, so perhaps the full Mark Warner is needed.
Well done for getting the courts to sort it.
I don't buy the "Amex are busy" line; they charge a lot of money and have massive infrastructure, that doesn't cut it.
Well, try not paying your bill to them next month and see how long the "I'm busy" excuse lasts when the boot's on the other foot.
If people do have cash outstanding, and if the supplier is dicking them around, I'd be minded to get it legally whilst they still have it to give. |
Thanks for pointing that out - I had no idea there was another company with that name out there. Have updated my posts as I’d hate to tar someone - business is tough enough without google search throwing up historical misinformation to besmirch your name.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Tiddles wrote: |
Trailfinders have a policy of holding the travellers money in an eschew (i think thats how you spell it) account so its not in their pot and sits there until you have actually travelled. So unlike most travel firms they arent using future peoples money to pay for todays travel.
We used them to go to Australia is 2017 - service great from booking through to coming home. |
Good to know about Trailfinders. I’ll bear them in mind for future bookings.
Ps. The word you’re looking for is “escrow” (I’m a boring accountant, hence why I know these boring things).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ansta1 wrote: |
Just so folks know the subject of 'interest' in terms of the claims is a murky one, because technically it only becomes part of the calculation at the point of cancellation in a lot of situations.
As an example.
You booked and paid in full for a 2021 holiday in 2019. Due to covid, or other reasons it was cancelled in 2020. You can't claim for interest (on credit card or loss of savings) as a result of that unless it was known and can be proven that the provider knew that it was going to be cancelled. the assumption is you would have had plans to pay off any balance anyway, or accept any interest if you didn't from you cc issuer. |
I think in my case I would have been due the interest, as they cancelled a week before the holiday (which was going to have been 22nd March - they closed the French Alps that Saturday before).
The following week they actually said they were going to refund, and in fact sent me an invoice for the negative amount. So on that basis, when I filled in the claim form, I started the interest calculation from that invoice date + 14 days, which I thought sounded the most plausible.
Don’t know if the court would have made a different call on that, but it didn’t come to it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Pejoli, yes, you can start accruing interest at the point that they cancel and you are then due/owed a refund, but to be clear not at the point of booking or payment (unless they were the same date).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@pejoli out of interest - no pun intended...... how long after launching the CCJ did it take to get the settlement?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Checked my emails - They came back 13 days after the claim was issued (they asked for the 14 day extension, but didn’t use it). They then paid up 21 days after that.
I also covered myself by emailing them a letter of action seven days before I made the claim (google ‘letter of action’ to find a few examples you can adapt)
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Fab thank you - really helpful
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Finally got my refund on Sunday from Ryanair for a flight cancelled in May 2020 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Alastair Pink,
Actual refund processing can take up to 14 days, but will be dated the day it was processed initially.
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FAQ
Next up was BA who took 20 days, but the longest wait was with Easyjet. They cancelled my flight on 10th November, I applied online that same day for a refund and got acknowledgement of my refund request. They said it would take 30 days before starting the refund process. I got an email on 8th December saying I should receive the refund within a further 10days. I still hadn't received the refund by 19th December so phoned them and they told me the refund had been processed and to check with my credit card provider (Santander mastercard). I did so and they said they hadn't received the money. I asked them to send me the forms to start a refund claim with them, but before they arrived in the mail my credit card online balance a day or two later suddenly showed the refund with a date of 7th December, very strange. 
