 Poster: A snowHead
|
I think the focus of this recent discussion is on the "diet industry" which does try to sell people all kinds of (often mutually exclusive) "get thin quick" solutions which obscure the basic truth that you will put on weight if you eat too many calories. Replacing that truth with a whole lot of justificatory myths really doesn't help. I don't find it helpful to call the propensity to eat too much an "addiction" in the sense that people can become addicted to alcohol, tobacco or crack cocaine. Certainly it might sometimes be a symptom of mental illness, just like pushing people off platforms under trains, or the sexual abuse of kids, or excessive hoarding can be. And in the same way I'm not convinced by predatory men who claim to have a "sex addiction". I'm agnostic about gambling.
But a lot of people who spend their time beating themselves up about their last meal or fretting about the next are not mentally ill in that sense. And neither are they obese. Just maybe a bit obsessed and always hopeful of finding that magic bullet which will enable them to eat and drink whatever they want without getting fat. The folk who peddle the latest theories are rubbing their hands at such a lucrative market.
I'm often self-indulgent (an old-fashioned weakness which the myth-makers would have you believe has nothing to do with overweight...) and if I make myself some chips (which I do rather often now I have an air-fryer) I enjoy them and don't beat myself up about it. They are certainly "healthier" than my home-made ice cream but I don't beat myself up about that, either. If I have a bad few days of eating, I try to have a better few days to redress the balance. That doesn't equate to being a paragon - have commonsense and moderation one completely out of fashion as everyday virtues??????
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@pam w, well, I know that I quite often lack both common sense and moderation. Luckily I've not been written off as completely pathetic and useless because of that. I agree with you, however, that the commercial exploitation of normal human weaknesses is deplorable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
There's a range of views between "if anybody is overweight it's entirely the result of their uselessness" and "if anybody is overweight it's all somebody else's fault".
Unfortunately that range of views between free will and determinism seems to be rather out of fashion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
If you eat less of the same, then the weight loss is slower, as your body will try to reserve energy and metabolic rate slows to wait for next sugar or carb hit. This is what makes you lethargic on a diet, as you struggle to produce a constant flow of energy to your muscles.
By cutting carbs & sugar energy, you are switching your body to burn fat. Your body has a constant supply of accumulated fat, so it chugs away quite happily at a more normal metabolic rate. Even if calorie intake is lower, it is not waiting for more fuel, as it already burning the fuel from your intake of protein + fat & stored fat - so you are not losing lean mass (muscle) so does not slow down your metabolic rate.
|
Complete pseudoscience. Every isocaloric study shows it makes zero difference what macronutrient ratio you lose, total kcal intake and expenditure dictates fat loss. The idea that you can easily change metabolic rate through altering carb consumption is silly, in fact there are studies showing carb consumption and glycemic index don't change metabolic rate https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oby.21268
When people stop eating carbs they usually see a quick initial drop in weight, this is mostly due to loss of muscle glycogen (each gram of glycogen binds to 3-4g water) so more "water weight" than fat loss. Unfortunately lack of muscle glycogen is terrible for exercise/sports performance. Long term very low carb leads to higher resting blood sugar levels, decreased metabolic flexibility (i.e. ability to process carbs), increased SHBG levels etc.
I guess all the science is wrong and we need to start shunning terrible high carb foods like fruit  |
I’m trying out a Keto diet in a bid to shift some ski season overindulgence. Can certainly attest to the negative impact on bike performance - 20% slower up my local hill when I tried last week! 8 days in it does seem to be having some effect as am down from 87kg to 83.8kg on the scales although half of this is probably water retention. Plan is to try and see it through to the end of the month before gorging on carbs before the Tour du Lac
Here was the article I read that seemed logical. I’m finding eating more meat, fish, eggs, avocados, nuts, cheese, olives etc is certainly more satiating than bread, pasta, rice and potatoes!
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-weight/diet-reviews/ketogenic-diet/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
When my OH (a type 1 diabetes since his early 20s) was unwell we had to test for ketones in his urine and it was seen as a major warning marker. It didn't happen often because he generally controlled his diabetes well, but it was sometimes a response to a severe infection and one time, when it persisted, he ended up in hospital on a drip. I could sometimes tell he was ketosed before he did the test - it makes your breath smell bad!
Of course cutting out alcohol, as well as all the processed, easily digested carbs, like sugar and white bread and pasta makes eminent sense for anyone wanting to lose weight sustainably. But buggering up your metabolism to the extent of depriving your body of glucose doesn't convince me as sustainable (and it's no wonder it takes longer to get up a hill on a bike).
My brother in law did Atkins, years ago - it suited his natural eating tendencies well, masses of steak, bacon, sausages and cheese sandwiches without the bread..... He did lose weight, quite quickly, but he was a mess and he put it back on pretty fast.
The old sayings about the benefits of a "balanced diet" still make sense to me. Any "diet" which tells me not to eat mangoes, bananas and grapes and my home-made sourdough seeded bread can go right out the window.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| ... I don't find it helpful to call the propensity to eat too much an "addiction" in the sense that people can become addicted to alcohol, tobacco or crack cocaine. .. |
I differ on that.
Don't you think it ought to be possible to industrially produce some edible substance which is "addictive"? It seems likely, to me.
If someone did synthesize something like that, would their business (and ingredients lists) not look a lot like McDonalds, or Coca Cola?
If that did happen, everyone addicted would quite rapidly become obese for reasons already discussed.
| pam w wrote: |
| There's a range of views between "if anybody is overweight it's entirely the result of their uselessness" and "if anybody is overweight it's all somebody else's fault". |
As with other addictions, I think one needs a more nuanced approach. I'd look at it from another angle: we, and the junk food industry, know how this works, we just need to sort it out.
2000AD's "fatties" was not meant to be rude; when it ran, the UK didn't have people remotely close to those sizes, it was just a joke.
That was then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| phil_w wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| ... I don't find it helpful to call the propensity to eat too much an "addiction" in the sense that people can become addicted to alcohol, tobacco or crack cocaine. .. |
I differ on that.
|
Agreed, I find refined sugar incredibly addictive. I’ve quit and fallen off the wagon many times now, despite the fact that when I quit, I feel (and am physiologically measurably) better within days. I’m as addicted to sugar as some people are to other substances, it’s just that my addiction is socially acceptable, possibly even encouraged, and doesn’t have the same societal negatives as some of the others.
In contrast, I don’t find alcohol addictive - I can go a month or two without drinking and not even notice, but dry January seems to be a huge challenge for some people.
Maybe it’s all about willpower. I’ll think about that on my next 400k bike ride.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| phil_w wrote: |
2000AD's "fatties" was not meant to be rude; when it ran, the UK didn't have people remotely close to those sizes, it was just a joke.
That was then. |
Yes, and not complete without the accompanying belly-wheel accessory. It could become a real thing with the size of some these days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I think claiming to be "addicted" to sugar (or in my case to Tyrrell's Furrows crisps) is doing a disservice to heroin addicts or alcoholics or smokers. Sure, one can really, really, want to eat some, but I don't think it's the same. @snowdave stops eating sugar he feels better within days. Instant reward. If a junkie doesn't get her fix, it doesn't make her feel better.......
There is a huge range of excuses for eating too much (or exercising too little). And most of us do both at times, if not all the time. In my case, whether eating too much of the wrong things, or not getting enough exercise, it's lack of will. Old fashioned, I know. And we all lack will particularly at times when life is hard in some way - no doubt about that.
I'm not addicted to alcohol. But I would do better to consume less. Maybe a few exceptionally obese people could be said to be "addicted" to food, just as some people with the disease of alcoholism are addicted to alcohol. But most of us who could do with drinking less are not addicted. We just enjoy it.
I don't think the language of "addiction" helps anybody, because treatment of addiction needs very drastic measures. Like never having another drink. And going through the hell of withdrawal. Nobody who hasn't smoked heavily knows how hard it is to give up. To compare that to giving up crisps, or too many pies, is absurd. We use language carelessly - we claim a development of cheap houses is "stunning" or say that "we're addicted to Love Island". A ski instructor (an American one....) told me my falling life side-slipping was "awesome". 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| ... Nobody who hasn't smoked heavily knows how hard it is to give up. ... |
I disagree. I have watched patients dying with COPD trying to gasp through their tobacco hit, despite knowing it will kill them. I've run projects with "rescue kits" for COPD patients, most of whom still smoke despite the massively debilitating effects of it. I've failed to persuade work friends to give up tobacco, only to watch them die with throat cancer. I saw my parents spend decades trying to kick the tobacco addiction. I know how hard those people found kicking their habit.
Not all addictive things are equally addictive of course, if that's the assumption.
Nutt got into hot water by trying to explain that to politicians.
If you don't like "addictive", you could maybe substitute something like "preternaturally moreish".
It absolutely isn't "natural", or "food", because we evolved to eat natural food without getting obese.
I'll go see if I can find anyone who's studied which manufactured stuff makes people obese quickest, unless anyone already knows?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| pam w wrote: |
But buggering up your metabolism to the extent of depriving your body of glucose doesn't convince me as sustainable (and it's no wonder it takes longer to get up a hill on a bike).
|
I’m only planning on doing it for the month of May, which is a bit of a “dead” month for me. Not missing out on April après or Summer sessions
And my body is well used to glycogen deprivation on long bike rides!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
But don't athletes practise "carb loading"? Even on the little sponsored bike ride I did in France a few years ago we kept being plied with bananas and Haribos.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| But don't athletes practise "carb loading"? Even on the little sponsored bike ride I did in France a few years ago we kept being plied with bananas and Haribos. |
Some of the pros are taking in 120g per hour (about 40 teaspoons!). Not that I'm suggesting that for "normal" people, but you certainly want to avoid glycogen depletion, which is the classic "bonk". There is also the suggestion that better fueled workouts lead to less hunger later on in the day i.e. while you think you are losing more weight while not taking on carbs during exercise, you may eat more and make worse food choices later on in the day putting yourself in a worse position than if you'd just fueled the exercise.
As for keto or any other low carb diets. Yes, you most likely will lose weight. Some water due to glycogen depletion, but the rest is just due to eating less kcal. When you cut carbs you get rid of a lot of "bad" foods. Funnily enough you get similar results cutting fat out and going high carb. The most palatable ultra processed foods are all high in fat and carbs. Cut one or the other and you will probably lose weight. (There's actually plenty of studies showing if protein is the same you lose/gain the same amount of weight regardless of the ratio of fat:carb in the rest of your kcal).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Most of us would have no problem with weight if we adopted sensible "portion control" with calorific foods. It's particularly important to adapt portions as we get older and/or less active. I often find that "portions" in meals out, especially in pubs, are huge. One local chain hotel is notorious for gigantic portions of cake - easily enough for two people. And these days, although I like good chips, I can rarely finish what's on my plate. I have a friend who has always been overweight and has convinced herself that a failure to eat everything on your plate is somehow morally reprehensible because it is "wasting food". She's normally quite a rational person but I've failed to persuade her that stuffing half a plate of calories she doesn't need is no "better" than leaving them. She's probably not the only one with this approach, probably instilled in childhood. We sail together, both cook competently and make nice meals, and if food is left in serving dishes I try to clear it away before she can mop it all up whilst feeling terribly virtuous because she's avoiding its being "wasted". Which really annoys me!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
I believe, that as we get older, we should eat less than we did, as we don't have the same muscle mass to use up the calories...or something like that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I try not to order, say, chips in a restaurant (to the extent of asking specifically for them not to be brought if they are included in the price) and I certainly don't make chips. (I'm a reasonable cook and have literally never deep-fried anything in my life.) However, if for some reason a plate of delicious chips is put in front of me, I'll go on eating them until they're finished. You can call that addiction, uncontrollable desire, greed or a pathetic and inexcusable lack of self-control, depending on your choice of semantics. Somebody else getting really annoyed is unlikely to stop me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I rarely find the mass produced chips "delicious". I make delicious home made chips, rather carefully, in my little air fryer, and they take remarkably little oil. The portion that will cook nicely is FAR smaller than the typical pub portion and I have them at least once a week (the air fryer also makes fantastic croutons for soup, again with little oil). I'd only get annoyed, @Hurtle, if whilst finishing your big portion of chips you were glancing disapprovingly at the ones I'd left with your "I hope you're not going to waste those" look on your face.  And I wouldn't leave delicious chips unless I was stuffed - they just so rarely are, and the portions so invariably obscene.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
As for keto or any other low carb diets. Yes, you most likely will lose weight. Some water due to glycogen depletion, but the rest is just due to eating less kcal. When you cut carbs you get rid of a lot of "bad" foods. Funnily enough you get similar results cutting fat out and going high carb. The most palatable ultra processed foods are all high in fat and carbs. Cut one or the other and you will probably lose weight. (There's actually plenty of studies showing if protein is the same you lose/gain the same amount of weight regardless of the ratio of fat:carb in the rest of your kcal). |
On day 9 and interestingly bike performance at lunchtime was much better today despite being under 25g of carbs last couple of days and being fasted this morning. Body getting used to it?
Just eaten some Gruyere, smoked salmon and Serrano ham for lunch washed down with some nuts and a soy latte 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@pam w, I'm not in the habit of eating mass-produced chips. That said, I've been known to buy a small bag of McDonalds ones on the way home from an over-indulgent evening of drinking, and found them quite tasty. I suppose I might have found anything tasty on one of those fortunately infrequent occasions.
I've already explained that I have no need of/space for another kitchen gadget like an air fryer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I like McDonalds chips, on the very odd occasions when I've had them, because they're crispy and they do come in very little packages, leaving you wanting more, which is always a good thing (as the Bishop said to the Actress). I know you don't want an air fryer, Hurtle, but I was responding to people who think "carbs", especially "fried carbs" are evil and that it's fine to eat a pile of high cholesterol fats instead. I just don't get it.
The purveyors of food must find that people demand those huge portions, or I guess they'd save money by making them smaller. The pub our old persons' cycling group had lunch in yesterday had a menu of "small lunch" choices for about £9 and most of us chose those, which were fine. We hadn't cycled far enough to justify a huge plate of pie and chips, though some of the blokes did have pints of beer. None of them was fat though and several were really very slim. There was a funny moment when one of the slim ones, who is rather a good cyclist fell off when trying to do a slow tight turn, of the kind I would never even attempt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| sibhusky wrote: |
Now 36 down, 44 to go.
Skiing regularly helps.
| sibhusky wrote: |
| Yes, I think writing down and measuring is the only thing that works for me. Plus, "simple" foods: beef, broccoli, whatever, not "recipes". Which is driving my husband nuts as he just likes to start cooking and throwing things in as the spirit moves him, 15 minutes after it's served he can't tell you how much of what is in the concoction. I'm 30# down, 50# to go, I need to know what's going in and I need a morning warning if it's going to have more than the usual calories so that I can plan it into the day. |
|
Ski Season is over, so now have to resort to walking. I live in a quite hilly area, where the end of the walk is uphill, unfortunately. I'm trying to walk 1 to 2 miles 3 times a week, but finding the incentive is low. We've gone from "mud season" straight to summer as well. I came back pretty dehydrated last time and paid the price (migraine). I would carry a water bottle, but I'm walking a dog, carrying a phone and bear spray, and an unknown quantity of mail already, and haven't wanted the extra weight for that last push (16% grade.) It's already too warm for a pocket vest. My problem to solve. Perhaps secreting the water bottle in the woods? My net carbs have been slightly high lately, 23-26, but my calories are down after ski season as I'm not as ravenous. I'm still weighing and measuring.
Anyway, April was tough, as I hit a 6 week long plateau. But, now down 42, 38 to go. I've scheduled a trip to Austria for a year from now and plan to eat any darn thing I want, and will resume when I return. I expect to just miss hitting my goal before I leave. I'm hoping the extra walking will cancel out the Esterhazytorte.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@sibhusky, congratulations, over half way!
How about getting a backpack for your dog to wear so it carries water etc. for you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| phil_w wrote: |
If you don't like "addictive", you could maybe substitute something like "preternaturally moreish".
|
This. And that's what they're designed to be: it's obvious, really, that the particular formula for breakfast cereal (already a very weird product) that makes it onto the supermarket shelf will be the one that test subjects eat most of (whether by going back for multiple helpings or by taking the largest portions in the first place). And a huge amount of research goes into designing the products that are most difficult to stop eating.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 18-05-23 12:54; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@JayRo, exactly
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well yes, but blaming the deliberately-attractive products for your not being able to resist eating the bloody things is like blaming a scantily dressed and well endowed girl for getting raped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Well yes, but blaming the deliberately-attractive products for your not being able to resist eating the bloody things is like blaming a scantily dressed and well endowed girl for getting raped. |
That's a remarkably stupid (not to mention unhelpfully inflammatory) comparison (a more appropriate one, if you really want to go down that road, would be blaming the person who hit on you for your failure to be faithful to your spouse). But no one's talking about blame, except the people who shout BUT WILLPOWER whenever anyone mentions the social and economic contexts in which these things take place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| I have a friend who has always been overweight and has convinced herself that a failure to eat everything on your plate is somehow morally reprehensible because it is "wasting food". She's normally quite a rational person but I've failed to persuade her that stuffing half a plate of calories she doesn't need is no "better" than leaving them. She's probably not the only one with this approach, probably instilled in childhood. We sail together, both cook competently and make nice meals, and if food is left in serving dishes I try to clear it away before she can mop it all up whilst feeling terribly virtuous because she's avoiding its being "wasted". Which really annoys me! |
Yes, I'm sure I'm not alone in being told to finish up. there's kids starving in Africa, dontcha know, and all this sort of thing. Which when we were kids, with a very limited food busget was not a bad thing, cos we were never served huge portions of anything and it was actually more about making sure we got enough nutrition. I recall a seminal moment when I first went to work in Brussels consciously deciding that I would not eat everything on my plate in a restaurant. It was quite a liberating experience.
As for your friend, yes, it's difficult, and of course if they're used to this then they're also used to feeling overfull and therefore not feeling like it's a struggle to do so. You could try ensuring that you have a specific plan for leftovers - creative cooking on a boat takes some imagination, but we often make up a meal from doggie bags when sailing in the Med, so you might encourage this idea instead of just throwing it all away.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| JayRo wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Well yes, but blaming the deliberately-attractive products for your not being able to resist eating the bloody things is like blaming a scantily dressed and well endowed girl for getting raped. |
That's a remarkably stupid (not to mention unhelpfully inflammatory) comparison (a more appropriate one, if you really want to go down that road, would be blaming the person who hit on you for your failure to be faithful to your spouse). But no one's talking about blame, except the people who shout BUT WILLPOWER whenever anyone mentions the social and economic contexts in which these things take place. |
I think it's a remarkably insightful comparison actually. Yes, it's obviously and intentionally taking it to an absurd extreme but it illustrates the concept very well IMO. Blaming overeating (and yes, you are) on social and economic context is no more valid, conceptually.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
you might encourage this idea instead of just throwing it all away
|
we do keep whatever we can sensibly use, and without easy access to shops that makes sense (we have a brilliant fridge, which helps) but actually we throw very little away because we are very accustomed to catering on the boat, and what we all like, and we generally eat what have on our plates! We do eat extremely well, with loads of fruit and veg. The statistics of "wasted food" (because of overbuying it in the first place) are distressing in environmental terms, but buying less wouldn't actually help the starving children in Africa we all got fingers wagged at us about. Persuading my overweight friend that "finishing up" things "rather than wasting them" is self-destructive and does no good at all to anybody, or the planet, is a waste of breath but I don't let her disapproving glances persuade me to finish up the too-many chips on my plate at a pub ashore! She doesn't quite have the bare-faced greed to eat them for me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Blaming overeating (and yes, you are) on social and economic context is no more valid, conceptually. |
The idea that 'overeating' is some kind of moral failure, or for that matter something that has to be 'blamed' on anything, let alone something akin to rape, is ludicrous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
you might encourage this idea instead of just throwing it all away
|
we do keep whatever we can sensibly use, and without easy access to shops that makes sense (we have a brilliant fridge, which helps) but actually we throw very little away because we are very accustomed to catering on the boat, and what we all like, and we generally eat what have on our plates! We do eat extremely well, with loads of fruit and veg. The statistics of "wasted food" (because of overbuying it in the first place) are distressing in environmental terms, but buying less wouldn't actually help the starving children in Africa we all got fingers wagged at us about. Persuading my overweight friend that "finishing up" things "rather than wasting them" is self-destructive and does no good at all to anybody, or the planet, is a waste of breath but I don't let her disapproving glances persuade me to finish up the too-many chips on my plate at a pub ashore! She doesn't quite have the bare-faced greed to eat them for me. |
For what it's worth, the thing I found most helpful in getting over the drive to 'eat up' food so that it wouldn't 'go to waste', was when someone pointed out that putting through my digestive system and into the sewers is no better an outcome for anything that feeding it to the worms in the compost. Probably a less helpful argument on a boat, though, where I imagine composting facilities are limited!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
no one's talking about blame
|
Actually, @JayRo, your post at 0857 is doing exactly that - blaming the the food industry for making stuff people "can't stop eating". Of course they do - they are in business to make money, just like manufacturers who make luxury cars, designer handbags, or expensive watches. I don't understand the relevance of your example of somebody hitting you because you were unfaithful to your spouse.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Revisiting this thread because daughter in law just recommended Tim Spector's book and approach to daughter. I wondered about reading one of his big-seller books but just reading comments and reviews I'm unsure. I think I do know a fair bit about nutrition. I don't have a weight problem (because whenever it creeps up, for the last half century, I eat better and exercise a bit more till it gets down a bit). But I would certainly have a weight problem if I ate everything I wanted, even though most of what I want (e.g. my home made sourdough bread, toasted, probably with Marmite) is perfectly healthy in itself.
And I know about fruit and veg though I could do with having more portions. People like Spector seem to think we are all deluded about food and nutrition but are we really? If I eat too many potato chips one day (and I quite frequently do, provided they are good ones) I don't need a book to tell me it would be better not to. I also know that although I am not an alcoholic, and would very rarely feel "drunk" (and don't like it when I do), it would be better for me to drink less alcohol. I've just decided it's part of a life style I enjoy and my life would be poorer without it.
Has anyone found great unexpected insight in Spector's books, or the Zoe app?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@pam w, It might help if you gave at least half a clue to the books and approaches you mention. A quick web search shows me someone referred to as a "food guru" which pretty much makes me stop reading right there, but I browsed enough to see that he's just spouting the same old stuff - more veg, fermented products, more fibre, etc. etc.
We cook from scratch at home 99% of the time (cost and local unavailability of takeaways have dictated this for the last 20-odd years) and I think we eat quite healthily. I do however eat meat at least once most days, average probably about two portions of fruit and veg per day and at least 30 units of alcohol a week, so I fail on so many counts according to modern thinking. I ain't gonna change anytime soon though.
As per the thread title, my advice for weight loss is simple: eat less, not different 
Always worked for me on the odd occasions I've crept up to the 90kg mark - once my 32in Levi 501s are too tight I know it's time to cut down a bit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
once my 32in Levi 501s are too tight I know it's time to cut down a bit.
|
yes, that's my kind of mark, too. Sorry, I thought there'd been discussion earlier about Spector and his book. He's into the individual "biome" and measuring the impact of different foods on us as individuals, all with our own population of bugs. I think I have a relatively robust "biome", and am generally not very sensitive to these things, as I have never noticed any problems with antibiotics. I had very strong antibiotics a few months ago for an attack of cellulitis and daughter gave me pro-biotics which I remembered to take a few times, for a few days......
Perhaps I should make an effort and get back into drinking my kefir, which has been sitting in fridge for two weeks (since my sister gave it to me) and plug full of bugs..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I would be amazed if anyone nowadays didn’t know about protein, carbohydrates & fats, the split your daily intake should be & your daily calorie allowance.
As I get older the more I see it as diet over exercise.
@Chaletbeauroc, You are spot on about your jeans getting tight, all to easy nowadays to just go buy a bigger size, perhaps if society took your approach we might all be a bit healthier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There's a lot of chat about Ultra Processed Food and how terribly bad they are. But.... "Frozen pizza" is often cited as a prime example.
This is the sort of thing that makes me cross. There's no reason why freezing something should make it more harmful. We had quite an expensive supermarket pizza last night, sourdough, with roasted veg and cheese. I don't believe it was more "harmful" than one I'd made from scratch (and I quite often do make pizza) and wouldn't have become less harmful if it had been frozen.
The potato crisps I like list "potatoes, sunflower oil, salt" on the ingredients. I simply don't believe they're harmful in any way. Yes, they're fattening if eaten to excess but so are lamb chops, or chestnuts..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Jonny996 wrote: |
As I get older the more I see it as diet over exercise. |
I'm lucky that I don't easily put on weight (but that is changing a little as I am now well over 60).....So I prioritise exercise over diet (to a sensible degree), in order to slow the natural decline in strength/balance/aerobic fitness and flexibility, that happens with age.
Where possible, I like "Practical Strength" using Callisthenic type exercises (eg. Press-ups; Pull Ups; Chin Ups; Dips; Lunges/Squats etc)
When I get the balance of my routine correct - my weight remains stable around the 10 stone mark. If I stop exercising, my weight starts to creep up towards 11 stone, which goes on mostly around the waist  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| pam w wrote: |
| There's a lot of chat about Ultra Processed Food and how terribly bad they are. But.... "Frozen pizza" is often cited as a prime example. This is the sort of thing that makes me cross. There's no reason why freezing something should make it more harmful. ... |
No one's claiming that the act of freezing stuff makes it ultra processed.
You can easily search for UK frozen pizzas. Of the 24 there, all except 3 are NOVA 4 - UPF. I tend to find frozen pizza too salty and sugary, which is a different thing, but I'd not want to eat them if there was real food available - I mean stuff not made in factories with ingredients I don't recognise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Has anyone found great unexpected insight in Spector's books, or the Zoe app? |
Quite the opposite: I think it’s snakeoil, founded on some potentially interesting science and a lot of what’s basically woo. I used it for about six weeks, and found it so unhelpful (& so contrary to their marketing guff) that I complained & they gave me a full refund (for membership, biome testing and all).
For those who don’t know, the programme involves some testing (you wear a blood glucose monitor for a week to measure how your sugar levels respond to different foods, food combinations and activities; there’s a finger-prick test to measure your blood fat response to a control food; and there’s a faecal biome test). On the basis of these results, they claim to produce a set of personalized scores for you (in fact these are scores for one of I think 9 archetypes based on the test results). These scores are given to foodstuffs, meals and days, and they supposedly tell you how freely or occasionally you should eat different things, and how well you’ve done that meal, and that day. So it’s basically a kind of gamification of diet, and the mechanics of the way it’s gamified are where I think the snakeoil is.
So each food is given a score, as follows:
75-100 enjoy freely
50-74 enjoy regularly
25-49 enjoy in moderation
0-24 eat once in a while
Then on the basis of the quantities of the different foods you eat at each meal, it’ll give you a score for the day. The aim is to score higher than a certain number on most days.
Now I had several issues with it. Even though I have a ‘poor’ blood fat response, nuts were given a very high score for me. But obviously, if you have a large appetite (I do: I find portion control and stopping eating something I enjoy quite difficult), being told to ‘enjoy’ nuts ‘freely’ can easily lead to eating a lot of nuts, which is a lot of fat, and a lot of energy. Not necessarily the best idea.
Worse was the way the meal and day scores were calculated. The thing that was the last straw for me was when I looked at what I could add to a dessert (a bowl of Greek yogurt with some walnuts and a teaspoon of honey) to improve it, and worked out that adding a certain quantity of toasted seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, sesame) increased the score for that meal by 7 points or so. So far so gamified. The problem was that doing that decreased my score for the day by a lot more than my score was increased for the meal. I understand that that was because of the total fat quantity I’d eaten that day. Which is fair enough, but if I shouldn’t be eating that much fat in a day, then the meal score also shouldn’t be rewarding me for doing so.
So in order to use it well, for my health goals, I actually had to keep track of calorie and fat levels—two things that all the Zoe marketing claims aren’t required in their ‘revolutionary’ approach to diet. And I wasn’t able to use the app/scores to work out how to eat well, without mentally adding a bunch of other stuff. At which point, why bother.
It wasn’t completely useless. Knowing how my blood glucose responds to carbs was helpful (if I eat an almond croissant and than walk for 25 minutes—coincidentally, the distance from the stunningly good bakery back to my home—then I avoid the spike and subsequent intense hunger that would come if I ate it and didn’t exercise). And some of the meal-hacking suggestions were helpful: one thing that works very well for me is replacing some of the meat in a meal with butter beans or similar. None of this is rocket science, and none of it needs an overpriced app and badly designed gamification mechanism to work, though.
Edited to add: I also found out that my gut biome is pretty good. And along with learning how to improve (and how not to ruin) it, mostly through feeding it with particular nutrients, I learned that no, I can’t blame it for the fact that I find it very easy to lose weight, but have to go through the rather harder task of limiting my intake. Pity that there isn’t a quick-fix solution, but better to know that there isn’t.
I’m happy to answer any more questions anyone has about my experience of the Zoe programme: ask away if interested!
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 26-11-23 18:04; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
