The annual "Annual Insurance" thread. This time with added Covid-19.

A snowHead

@thunderer, so you are visiting that country on 31st. A few days later you are still visiting so you were visiting on 31st

A snowHead

We will make sure we arrive on the 30th

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Haha all very witty aren’t we

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@thunderer, eh? You asked and we answered

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Just looking in case we are not recommended to travel by the FCO ..what about this ...anyone used them Puzzled

https://www.staysure.co.uk/fco-advice-travel-insurance/

After all it is free

@DaveD, a few people have said so in the other threads

Staysure annual insurance only covers up to 21 days for one only single trip for winter sports. Does not include off piste outside " authorised " areas so certainly no touring. Against FCO advice would not cover medical costs for covid. So if you are worried about potential high costs of ICU you would need to source separate health insurance.

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I just saw a mention of this medical policy on a motorhome forum and recalled that some on here were considering this type of cover. https://www.axa-schengen.com/en
No covid or existing conditions are covered but all else including medical expenses, emergency hospitalisation and repatriation.
FCO advice does not affect the policy and the op had a quote of £319 for 2 people for 180 days.

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@snowornever, Hence me saying "No covid or existing conditions are covered".
The point of posting was that most policies don't give any cover whatsoever whereas this one does.

You know it makes sense.

I think that there are three particular circumstances that most insurers don't want to cover 1.1.21 onwards , that is, expenses arising from

(a) voluntary cancellation due to a change in status of Arrivals from the UK to your destination country
(b) voluntary cancellation due to a change in status of Arrivals from a foreign country back into the UK
(c) a Covid infection

After the March débâcles, when everyone suddenly discovered what force majeure actually meant, I see the insurers trying, understandably, to limit their liability re (a-c) above in a way that's clear and simple. Unfortunately, the only definitive tool they have is the wholly ill-suited 'Against FCO Advice'. They're happy to cover you just like before in terms of 'standard' risks, like accidents, unexpected illness, existing declared conditions etc. But not (a-c). The trouble is that it's very hard indeed to phrase their exclusions clearly. Hence the confusion.

On top of this, I think some insurers are being deliberately obtuse. They're hoping to win new business by introducing ambiguity into the definitions and can drop the bombshell that you're not covered when you make a claim. And as we saw back in April onwards, as people made claims, this is then your problem, not theirs.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

We are travelling with Inghams. In terms of cancellation Inghams have a lot of eventualities covered regarding cancellation due to corona virus. But there are two areas that are not covered. The first is that you can’t go because you came up on track and trace within 14 days if your trip. This is definite as it clearly states this on their website. The second is what happens if you have to quarantine upon arrival. Crystal have this covered and state that they would cancel your trip if quarantine was required in either the country you are going to or when returning to the uk. I have messaged Inghams to see if they also offer this as I can’t find anything on their website.
I can’t find an insurance policy to cover these two possibilities. Does anyone know of an insurer that will cover this.
I’m surprised that Crystal offer a refund because of the need to self isolate when returning to the uk. Many people have lost trips over the last few months because they couldn’t self isolate when returning. This must be a big selling point for Crystal.
Trying to find decent winter sport travel insurance with Covid protection is very time consuming as you have to read the small print. So if anyone has a good suggestion please let me know.
The best I have come across so far is ‘Coverwise’ who are underwritten by Axa. Their silver winter sports + Coronavirus protection + multi trip is showing at £80. It covers a lot of thing but not the Cancellation points discussed above.
I have looked at Staysure but they had a few areas that didn’t really fit our needs.
So if you have any suggestions please let me know.

A snowHead

@Eggfried, Thanks for highlighting Coverwise. At first scan of the it looks to provide what I will need. Multi trip skiing up to 17 days per holiday with apparently no limit on the total number of ski days over multiple trips and pre existing conditions. Cancellation cover is not an issue for as everything we have booked is fully refundable/movable. Don't think I've seen any offering the 2 circumstances you need.

Damn, just checked age limits, Multi trip restricted to under 66

A snowHead

@Timc, Single trips limited to 31 days if aged 62 or over and my cheapest quote was £655 for a 60 and 62 year old couple. Which seems a lot, and there was still a warning about travelling against fco advice.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Just want to flag up for people to check their debit/credit card hasn’t expired. A couple of years ago we assumed the money for our renewal had been automatically collected as usual. We got back to a letter saying they had been unable to take payment so we had skied uninsured. So lucky we didn’t have to call on it.

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Just had a read of the new Monzo Premium account cover (provided by AXA). Good news: it only excludes travel where FCO advises against “all travel” - at the moment it’s against “all but essential travel” (important distinction). Bad news: skiing off piste only covered “with a guide”. Weird news: Ski Touring is covered (excludes personal accident and liability cover). Assume they think ski touring is cross-country.

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Coverwise gives me what i need apart from they specifically exclude travel where FCO advises against “all or all buit essential” travel. So if by December the FCO have replaced their advice with some kind of testing regime that looks good.

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It's all looking pretty unlikely for this season but I've just seen another possible insurance option covering covid caught in europe whilst travelling against FCDO advice. It also covers off-piste between the piste without a guide; 6 weeks for a couple in early 60s starts at £244 (without cancellation option).

Is this the one? have a look: https://www.skicover.com/

After all it is free

I've got my insurance through my Halifax bank account, seems to cover everything I need. Don't do much off piste and if I did I'd use a guide to no probs there

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It sounds like a good company to use for covid cover, but does anyone have any experience of Skicover.com when needing to make a claim?

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It appears that skicover allow the combination of winter sport, age 70+, and travel within Europe despite FCDO advice against all but essential travel.
I'm therefore inclined to use them next month or as soon as the lockdown law in England, and in France or Austria etc, allows it.
Needless to say, I too would be very interested to hear anyone's experience of actually claiming.

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I've got medical cover if I get zapped whilst away from rescue to medevac home as well as £7k cancellation insurance. Without any excess to pay it's cost me £560 for a season. Minging.

Could do with a snowheads view on my insurance I get via my companies flex benefits for next year (https://www.penunderwriting.co.uk/) which is up for renewal. Searching the T&Cs for Pandemic gets me 3 hits, which I think means they won't cover any losses ie I'd assume lift pass, ski hire costs etc but will cover accom and travel costs to get me home??

Insured Persons are not covered for:

any losses arising from an epidemic or pandemic, or Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC).as categorised as such by any Government and/or the World Health Organzation, in respect of cancellation or Curtailment claims; Except in the event of cancellation costs under Sub-Sections C & D of Section 8

Insured Persons are covered for:

Return Journey Delay If during a Trip the departure of the aircraft, sea vessel or train in which the Insured Person has pre-booked to travel for their return journey Home is delayed for at least one Full Day as a result of fire, lightning, explosion, volcanic eruption, tsunami, avalanche, storm, tempest, earthquake, hurricane, flood, medical epidemic, pandemic, Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC) or Government directive Insurers will pay up to the amount shown under Sub-Section E in Section 9 in the Schedule of Benefits for

The Insurer will pay up to the amount shown in the Schedule of Benefits for irrecoverable travel or accommodation costs necessarily incurred to continue with the Trip or, if the Trip cannot be continued, for the Insured Person’s return Home if the Insured Person is forced to move from their pre-booked accommodation as the result of fire, lightning, explosion, earthquake, avalanche, storm, tempest, hurricane, flood, medical pandemic or epidemic or Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC), volcanic eruption or local Government directive which is confirmed in writing by local or national authority.

Insured Persons are covered for both Cancellation and Curtailment but may claim in respect of only one of the
following in respect of any one Trip:

The Insurer will pay up to the amount shown under Section 8 in the Schedule of Benefits for an Insured Person’s
loss of irrecoverable deposits or payments for unused travel and accommodation paid in advance or contracted to be
paid that cannot be recovered from any other source, as a result of the necessary and unavoidable cancellation of
that Insured Person’s Trip due to:

C. the Insured Person being required to Self Isolate within 14 days of the Trip subject to an official positive test
result.
D. the Insured Person has been identified to follow Government Shielding Measures as long as the Trip was
booked prior to such identification.

You know it makes sense.

I understand, via a very reliable source, that Fogg Insurance have ceased trading and have "called it a day" as it was put to me. There is a notice on their home page https://www.foggtravelinsurance.com/ which would indicate something's up although it doesn't spell it out fully. Perhaps if you are insured by Fogg, it's worth contacting them to see what your situation is. Almost certainly you'd still be insured assuming their underwriter keeps you on cover but best to get confirmation.

It can't be easy for brokers like Fogg. They have to keep admin staff on board (which means they can't be furloughed) to administer customer queries and date changes etc, while not making hardly any new sales. I imagine they process more refunds than they do sales right now.

I note they have Interski as a customer and it's possible this coincides with Interski's announcement that they are not going to operate at al this season.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Apologies if this has been posted further up this thread but .....thought might be interesting to share. We are (still hoping) to go out to France in Dec and planning to stay till March so figured I would renew my EHIC just in case to cover up to 31 Dec. Have already got insurance to cover too (and does include covid) and plan to take out Carre Neige. When I went to renew this paragraph sprang out

. So if you are travelling out before end of year there will be some cover on EHIC for the duration of your trip. There are caveats though ......if you're visiting France and have a side trip (even for a day) to Switzerland for example the cover ends as soon as you enter Switzerland regardless of whether you go back to France or not.

(https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/apply-for-a-free-ehic-european-health-insurance-card/)

A snowHead

There's a bit more on it here too - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-residents-visiting-the-eueea-and-switzerland-healthcare

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I said Skicover appear to offer combination of winter sport, age 70+, & travel within Europe despite FCDO advice against all but essential travel.
However their small print is very offputting. It says, under general exclusions "loss, damage, expense or indemnity incurred as a result of travelling to an area that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (or its equivalent in other EEA countries) have advised against all or all but essential travel provided that such loss, damage, expense or indemnity is directly or indirectly related to any such circumstances that are the reason for the advice".
(and also) "claims in any way caused by or resulting from an infectious or contagious disease, an outbreak of which has been declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC) by the World Health Organization (WHO)……………. This general exclusion applies to all sections of cover with the exception of Section 2 – Emergency Medical Expenses as long as, prior to your trip commencing, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office had NOT advised against all (but essential) travel to your intended destination’".

Does anyone know what that last sentence means? Is it trying to say that emergency medical expenses are covered, whether caused by a skiing accident or covid, but no other type of claim is covered during the pandemic? Or is it saying that even emergency medical expenses after a skiing accident are NOT covered, in the event of FCO advice against all but essential travel?
Or is it trying to distinguish between all and 'all but essential'?.
The bracket round the words 'but essential' is theirs, it isn't my editing.

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I read it as meaning you're not covered for anything to do with COVID. And worse, if there's a COVID situation at your destination then you're not covered for anything at all, whether COVID-related or not. i.e. your entire cover is invalidated 'This general exclusion applies to all sections of cover'. So there.

A lot of people on here are posting they have COVID cover. But I suspect that not many have analysed the Ts+Cs as closely as you and are in for a shock if they ever end up making a claim.

The only way to resolve this, of course, is to ask them. Which I'd do as an email, not a telephone conversation. But then, I'm just a pessimistic non-legal person, so I could be wrong.

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I think @LaForet, is right, I've spent the past three or so weeks in contact with a Lead Player in the Ski Insurance business asking many Covid related questions, I'm still waiting on some further clarification, but basically don't expect to be covered whilst travelling against FCDO / FCO advice.

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Hmm I would read the quote as covering normal injuries, but not covering anything to do with COVID, either "directly or indirectly related".

However this doesn't really help you as if you get injured now, hospital and repatriation costs may be higher to comply with covid rules (indirectly related costs; probably not covered) and going to hospital makes getting covid (or being locked down due to exposure) much more likely.

At which point even if your skiing injuries are covered, if you are required to then isolate for 2 weeks because you were exposed during treatment (basically guaranteed at any hospital now given infection rates) so need 2+ weeks extra accomodation, new flights (possibly medical with special allowance for infection) etc, you won't be covered for that...

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@peerless ploughman, Isn't that standard terms and superceded by the information on their home page:

After all it is free

On checking : starting from skicover's start page saying new product launch: you have to put age of 64 or less in order to get options bronze/silver/gold. These appear to cover travel against fco advice, covid cancellation cover, covid denied boarding cover, all european countries.
But if you give an older age, you get a different menu of quote options: voyager standard, voyager prime, voyager black. These are more expensive but appear more restrictive, as follows. Travel against FCDO advice, yes. Covid cancellation cover, no. Covid denied boarding cover, no. Covid cover in europe, safe countries only. A box explains that 'safe' means not subject to an FCDO warning.
So it may possibly be that skicover are offering something for the under 65s, if anyone can decipher the detailed policy wordings. But for wrinklies like me over that age, it appears not.

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Have a look at Snowcard:

"Snowcard policies now cover cancellation if you become ill with coronavirus COVID-19 and include emergency medical expenses if you contract COVID-19 on holiday. Our European Single Trip Policies will even cover you if you are travelling against FCDO advice this winter. Full details of COVID-19 cover click here"

It DOES cover European countries where the FCDO advises against travel due to CV.
It ONLY works for Single Trip policies...so NOT for an annual policy.

Obviously there is a load of small print but it looks good enough for me.

Help!!

The annual "Annual Insurance" thread. This time with added Covid-19.

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