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Boot canting...


Have you (or your fitter) fiddled with your canting?
No (or don't know)
44%
 44%  [ 23 ]
Yes (+ve)
19%
 19%  [ 10 ]
Yes (-ve)
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Yes (don't know which way)
15%
 15%  [ 8 ]
I don't have canting (I can't cant)
7%
 7%  [ 4 ]
I've no Idea what this is about
7%
 7%  [ 4 ]
Voted : 46
Total Votes : 52

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So my boots have a canting adjustment - and, being male, if it adjusts then I want to adjust it Very Happy

How do I tell if I need to fiddle with it? And which way to turn it? And when to stop turning it?

I do have fairly flat arches so I kinda expect to need to play with it.

I bought the boots 3 years ago at a small ski shop up in suffolk - I didn't spend much time being fitted (certainly nowhere near as much as they spent with my wife at S+R last year!)

I'm going to Whistler for 2 weeks in Jan/feb so I was going to see a fitter out there anyway - I suppose I'm just being a bit interested in the meantime.

David
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
lbt, just an opinion here and I'm ready to be shot down by others if wrong. Now being a bloke of course you have to fiddle nobs and twiddles (if you get my drift). Being a bloke too I know what you mean, after all why put them there if you're not supposed to fiddle!

i reckon though, it would be more sensible to have footbeds sorted first for your flat arches before twiddling with the canting. That's the main thing and other adjustments should follow from that.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Canting has nothing really to do with your arches - for that you need good insoles. The way to check your canting is to take the inner out of the boot, and then stand in the shell. In a neutral stance the shell should be equidistant around your leg. (You need someone else to look, because if you bend down to check, your legs will move)
Then based on the gap, the canting should be adjusted accordingly.

A good bootfitter can do this in a few minutes.

What sort of insoles have you in the boots, and what sort of boots are they?
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Foxy, welcome back, you've been the subject of some speculation.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David@traxvax, the speculation is untrue, I was not burried in a 13ft dump in Chatel
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
No, the 13' dump is a myth, and I know you're not mythical.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks for the canting info - hmm, I didn't want to appear to criticise the little shop because he could easily have done that - he just didn't say what he was doing and why. And it was some time later that I read about the twiddly thing...
anyway...

4thefunofit exactly:D

WTFH wrote:
Canting has nothing really to do with your arches

Ah, I wasn't sure whether flat arches may tend to make me anti-bow-legged (whatever that's called) - that's why I mentioned it.

Well, the boots are Nordica F7.2s.
The footbeds are red thermally moulded jobbies - I don't remember the brand name.
The problem I've got (as I said in another thread) is that when you stand on these soft footbeds (when they're hot) your foot 'collapses' into its normal unsupported position.
So if you look at my Superfeet (for my walking boots) they have a mound that my instep rests on - my red mouldies are as flat as a pancake.
I seem to remeber that they were reasonably comfortable the first time out (a week in Tignes in '01)
But since then they've hurt on the dry slope (when you spend most of your time on the drag lift going up)
In Val this year they were ok for a couple of days but after a long run down the pain in my left arch got so bad that I couldn't even stand up (really!)
It got bearable after 5 minutes or so and then by the time I was up top again it was ski-able.
If I just pootled about they were OK too.

I did wonder whether they'd gotten a bit big - my heel moves up and down a bit - but after reading up around here I wonder if I was just tightening them wrongly.

Anyway - that's why I was going to see a fitter in the resort before getting serious Smile

I do intend to do some practise over here first so I can experiment a bit.
(I probably shouldn't admit this but I got a hairdryer out last night and remoulded my left one whilst standing on one of my Superfeet! Told you I fiddled Wink )

David
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
oops - delete me


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Fri 29-10-04 17:00; edited 1 time in total
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
For the record, the accepted nomenclature is that adjusting the hinge points on the boots is not officially considered canting, it is usually considered an adjustment to match the axis of the upper boot to the axis of your lower leg.

Canting usually refers to either grinding the bottom of your boots at an angle to tilt them, or inserting shims between your bindings and your skis to accomplish the same effect.

Obviously, all of these methods adjust the angle between your lower leg and the base of your skis (ie, what you are trying to accomplish), but the hinge point adjustment also simultaneously dials in the same number of degrees of a form of ankle rotation (around a fore-aft axis, not the usual up and down movement - I think this motion is called inversion-eversion). This may or may not be desirable.

It usually is best to do both adjustments. This will get your skis at their most effective angle, and get your ankle its (different) most effective angle for you as an individual.

HTH,

Tom / PM

PS - Yes, I have had both adjustments done on my boots and it's made a big difference in my skiing even though I have fairly ordinary feet / legs - no excessive pronation, bow-legs, or anything similar.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Well, I suspect Twisted Evil marketing speak - there's an allen bolt and it has "canting" printed in red on the bolt head.
And that's what I meant - despite the fiddling I'm not ready to take a file to my boots just yet Wink

It's good to know what does what, and what's possible - all grist to the mill for getting it done properly in January.

How would you characterise the effect of the hinge point adjuster? (ie what bad habits can I now blame on it being badly adjusted Wink )

D
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I'm glad someone has mentioned the canting adjustments. I've just bought new boots and although they are comfortable (around the house anyway!) I just can resist tinkering with some more adjustments, it really must be a male trait. From what I can see it doesn't make a lot of difference - but then I'm standing on a wooden floor with no skis attached. I do suspect, though, that more allen screws and things to tweak just look good in the shop for suckers like me.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The "canting" adjustment found on most ski boots will allow a better fit, typically it will allow for slight variations in stance, most people will not need tp play with the factory settings, however if you find the cuff of the ski boot is not centered about your leg it may be worth getting the shop to adjust the settings for you.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
lbt, Meister Jäger not sure about bad habits, but chafed legs on on one side or the other at the edge of the boot cuff is a fair indicator.

I share DG's and PM's nomenclature, and think the "canting" adjustment would be properly labeled "apres-canting" as in "adjust this after they've tinkered with your boot sole or footbed, Rutschblockhead".

NOW, anyone want to drill out the outside shell of their boots as on the Salomon Pro Course? I have this superb jig idea . . . snowHead Laughing Razz snowHead Cool
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
lbt, If you want any boot work done in Whistler, i know a great boot fitter in the village. Let me know, and i'll hook you up. Most of my friends who work in the ski school go to this one particular store.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
lbt wrote:
Well, I suspect marketing speak ... How would you characterise the effect of the hinge point adjuster? (ie what bad habits can I now blame on it being badly adjusted Wink ) D


Good call. Definitely marketing speak.

About the effects of under or over canting (ie, not just via the hinge point adjuster, but anything that changes the angle of the base relative to the lower leg), Witherall's (sp?) book is probably the best place to start, but to summarize:

Let me define overcanted as meaning that when standing in a normal ski stance on flat ground, a skier's inside edges dig into the snow significantly more than their outside edges.

If a person is overcanted, the skier's (old) outside ski will hold extremely well towards the end of the turns, particularly, on hard snow, but the uphill /inside ski (at that moment) won't be worth a lick unless the skier forces his legs apart like a bronco rider. Overcanted folks ski very well in the old-fashioned snowplow or braking wedge because they are naturally favoring their inside edges. Overcanted folks have difficulty with the modern gliding wedge turns and simultaneous edge change / parallel shins.

In addition, if overcanted, it will be difficult (ie, require more leg/butt motion) to release the inside edge of the old outside ski at the end of turns, and will be very difficult to execute the very desirable "active (new) inside leg steering" during and after the transition.

Overcanted folks tend to compensate by straight-line skiing with their knees artificially far apart (ie an artifically induced bow-leg stance forced by the need to keep the skis' edges equally weighted to go in a straight line). Overcanted folks tend to ski with their skis very close together to minimize the extra inside edge edging that normally happens when you move your skis apart.

If a person is undercanted, just reverse everything I said above, e.g., skiers tend to ski knock-kneed or A-framed, they find it very easy to do diverging tip turns, etc.

HTH,

Tom / PM

PS - If you want to see just how deeply one can delve into this area, take a look at this recent thread over on Epic - http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=7963
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Ta Physicsman, that's a good link Smile

And I found a new wallpaper image :

http://www.ski-and-ski.com/work/Gallery/HermanShigaGS1.jpg (106KB)

I'm sure Robbie will get me there in no time!

David
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
lbt, If you get there, we will need to have a very serious talk about your for/aft balance. He is riding the tails of his skis, and i told you off for that last night Laughing
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If?
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