 Poster: A snowHead
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I have already written a TR about our recent trip to Hochzeiger. https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5564081&highlight=#5564081. But since this first family ski holiday was 5 years in the making and covered by a good number of SH threads, I thought I would bring them together in one post for any future researcher to benefit from(or not).
The first thing I would point out is that whilst we had an amazing time, I am not saying that the way we did things would suit everyone. To start with, we flew and stayed HB. I know that many families on here swear by driving down to the alps and I can certainly see the benefits to this, both financially and in having a full car packed with necessities, rather than squeezing everything into a couple of paid for suitcases! But for us, our girls would never cope that long in the car. They can barely manage the 2.5 hours it takes to get to Devon for our summer holidays!
Best age for first time family ski.
Being a snowhead, I was desperate to get them started asap. My initial intention was to get them out when they were 4. Looking back this seems unfeasibly early but my logic was that we could go during a cheap week out of school holidays, with many hotels and resorts not charging for under 5s. Indeed Hochoetz and Hochzeiger ran special weeks with free lessons and child care for under 5. Alas this was all scuppered by lockdowns, so I have no idea how that would have gone.
Lockdowns (or potential lockdowns) also wiped out the next two years, so I restarted my research when they were 7. I remember being advised that this was the perfect age to start. For one reason or another, we still never made it for another 2 years, but 9 also seemed like a good age to learn. The girls were still fearless (frighteningly so) but a bit more capable and independent.
Pre holiday ski lessons
I ran a very useful thread about the benefits of going to a fridge or even dry slopes before our trip.. https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5474326&highlight=#5474326
The conclusion I took was that whilst it might prove useful in getting used to skis and boots, you would need to invest in a number of lessons to get some real progression in actual skiing. As we live a decent treck from the nearest dome I passed up this option, especially when I checked out the lesson prices.
Best time of Year:
With school age kids you are stuck with Christmas, half term or Easter. For us half term just looked too costly. I considered trying to squeeze a part week in after NY last year but Easter seemed the best compromise with it falling early this year. We benefitted from lovely mild conditions and warm sunshine both on the slopes and down in-the village. The sacrifice was slushy lower slopes by the end of the day but more well documented SH advice is, there is no shame in downloading at the end of the day. Being a first trip, finishing skiing between 2-3pm really wasn’t a problem and the resort we chose was high enough to keep decent snow on the top slopes well into the pm.
Choice of resort
The most requested topic on SHs. The wise posters urge to not go for the expensive big name resorts as buying passes for 100s kms of runs is money wasted. Even for the parents it would be difficult to scratch the surface of a Zermatt, St Anton or Val D’Isere before having to return to ski school to collect the kids for lunch (sorry Whitegold).
More important is to find somewhere with good ski school and beginner friendly slopes. An area with Free kids lift passes is another bonus worth pursuing.
Another good tip is to find accommodation near ski school meeting place (so not necessarily ski in ski out).
A quirk particular to our family (but possibly others) is that my wife, whilst being flexible over her skiing, was very keen to stay in a pretty alpine village, preferably Austria. Innsbruck suited for good flights with short transfers but it did lead to the classic, where can I go that’s got good late season snow and alpine charm question. I never posted it as I didn’t want to be one of those people. But the compromise we reached was to find a good beginners high resort and accept that we would be using buses.
In my TR I mentioned how we came to love the buses and got a few fellow fans responding. I completely accept that you cannot beat being right next to the lift but if buses are regular and stop right next to the hotel (as ours was) it does open up a good amount of choice with your accommodation. You can also normally hire lockers by the lifts as well if you are worried about lugging kit.. we seemed to manage ok though, which surprised me.
Going to a lesser known resort also helped ease the cost for drinks, food and supplies. It was nice to be on the slopes and paying less for drinks than back home.
Ski lessons. Ski school or private?
Another great SH thread, which I found immensely useful. https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5351829&highlight=#5351829Ski
We travelled Thurs-Thurs, so normal ski school time would never have worked but we had thought of giving them a couple of private lessons before signing them up for Sunday ski school start in the hope that they would get into the second group up. In the end we threw a few more extra€s at it and went 1.5hrs, 2, 2, 2, 1 in private lessons.
It worked to a tee. One of my best decisions was to book the first lesson as a lunchtime one, which gave us a full morning to have relaxing breakfast, get the bus without stress, pick up our kit and passes and still have time at the top for snowball fights and going to the wrong meeting place.
By the end of the third lesson we were able to ski with them on a nursery slope in the pm and this extra practice meant that they were going down blues and easy reds by lesson 4. The final lesson was booked for 8.55 in the hope that we would be able to ski first pistes whilst the girls were with the instructor.. we overlooked the fact that first pistes in April is often completely iced up! Anyway, we got to ski the rest of the day with the girls and for the final few days there was no looking back.
Going to a small resort meant that we never felt frustrated that we were missing out on runs that we couldn’t reach. We were also never more than a lift and two runs from the meeting place, which meant we didnt spend our two hours constantly clock watching and stressing about getting back in time. It really was an excellent resort for all of us.
Seeing how well the girls took to skiing I wondered whether I should tip the instructor on the final day. SHs had plenty to say! https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5561909&highlight=#5561909
Costs: A conclusion I came to pretty quickly is that it is very difficult to do a budget trip with your family. If skiing on your own or with mates you can cut corners, miss meals and slum it. This is simply not possible with kids, or at least would make for a miserable time. Even as we got close to departure I could feel costs spiralling up: we were going to drive to my in laws and get a lift to the airport but that would have taken an extra hour each way and probably stressed my FiL so we spent an extra £100ish on meet and greet (could have been £70 for conventional parking).
The decision on private lessons swelled the budget by a couple of £100 and we could have used public transport for our transfers to save about £100 but did we really want to arrive late for dinner having lugged our cases on buses and trains?
We even committed an extra £60ish for a final day’s skiing due to having an evening return flight (more good advice from SHs) 6 or 7 day lift pass for beginner trip. What would you do?
But all of these extras costs I felt were vindicated and added value to make our trip more enjoyable and less stressful (apart from the meet and greet who were 40 mins late returning our car to us). So I guess I say the your budget may have to be flexible. FWIW here is the breakdown of our costs:
Flights x 4 + 2 cases. £360
Airport meet and greet £101.94
Transfers return £200
Hotel 7 nights HB + drinks bill £1219.07
7d lift passes 2 adults (kids free) £633.79
8.5 hr lessons for 2 kids £871.97
Equipment hire for 2a, 2kids £341.25
Total circa £3728
Extra spending. Lunches etc £408
Total £4136 (probably £1000 more than I had hoped for)!
But one thing I would say with certainty is that it was worth every penny. My problem is now that having saved 9 years for the first trip, I’ve only got one year to get some funds together for the second!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Great post/analysis.
Definitely good points about not cutting off your nose to spite your face cost wise.
My mindset is always to save money were you can in order to accept the odd hit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well done! I suspect this is a post we will be referring others to repeatedly, the "first time family" question appears regularly.
There are a few "take home" messages for the future. You are right that such a holiday is all about the young first-timers, a small resort is fine. And buses can work perfectly well though you would perhaps be cautious with the very smallest kids. Plus accepting that skiing is never a budget holiday unless you have a group of like-minded scrimpers - for which children don't qualify.
It is interesting that private lessons worked so well, sometimes it is more fun (and motivating) for children to join a group. Possibly the age of your girls was a factor as well as the fact there were two of them. Was there any advice on how to choose ski school (or instructor) that you found useful?
I am impressed you managed to satisfy the "pretty" criterion; Hochzeiger isn't a place I know anything about. My heart always falls when I see that listed on a request for suggestions, one person's idea of prettiness isn't necessarily the same as another. It is usually combined with a need to find somewhere snowsure at the cheaper ends of the season when that need would be better satisfied by a high altitude purpose-built resort; my sense is that "prettiness" usually means centred on an old traditional village which is always going to be lower down. But maybe some people do find the high resorts in 3V/Paradiski/Espace Killy pretty (when people start suggesting Val d'Isere meets the requirement I have to recognise our aesthetics differ).
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Pleased it all worked out and thanks for giving back!
My constructive thought is, now everyone knows how much fun skiing is, it’s likely you can encourage them to cheaper habits next time if/where needed. “I know the hotel doesn’t have a pool and is small but that’s so I can afford the instructor who teaches you fun stuff”.
My children were in tears of exhaustion walking back up the hill to the apartment at the end of a long day. Happily skiing the next day. And 10 years later my D2 picked up my skis as well as hers when I was tired.
Good luck.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
@Layne, I completely agree with your spending mindset.
@Orange200, I am already dreaming of the day they carry my skis for me. I tended to carry theirs this year and they took poles, but I will need to nip this in the bud before they get used to it and their skis get larger. Speaking of which, we managed perfectly well without a pool this year, so at least haven’t set that precedent but they will be mightily disappointed to discover that the 4pm cake buffet isn’t de rigour everywhere in the Alps!
@j b, as it was a small resort we didn’t have a huge choice of ski schools. A useful bit of advice was to book lessons early(ish). I had been a bit complacent about this, but got into a slight panic when the first (cheapest) ski school said their instructors were all booked up. Luckily the main Hochzeiger ski school were fine and had exactly the times we wanted + an English speaking instructor. Had this not been the case, we would have been in trouble. As mentioned, the original plan was to just book a couple of private lessons and then move to ski school, to get more hours for the buck, but in hindsight I’m glad we paid a bit extra for more private lessons as I don’t think they were sufficiently advanced to get to level 2 after two lessons and might well have been stuck with complete beginners for the rest of the week.
I would definitely consider ski school for next year, now that they can actually ski. Especially if we go somewhere which offers half day sessions, which our resort didn’t.
As regards the resort requirements, on the face of it we had three conflicting interests: the girls needed somewhere with good beginners pistes and ski schools, late season; my wife wanted a traditional charming village and nice hotel; I normally want mileage, black runs and a little bit of off piste but on advice from Snowheads sacrificed this, to be in charge of budget control (NB I’m not that much of a martyr as I had already been on a long weekend with my mates to tick those boxes).
As it turned out all those requirements worked quite well together: a small resort is normally set up well for families and gives various discounts and by the magic of the bus service we were able to stay in a charming village within striking distance of the slopes. Being away from the slopes also meant the hotel was good value and within budget.
I agree with you that bus travel might be more challenging with smaller kids and we had our share of boot room scrambles to be ready in time. On one occasion we arrived at the gondola to discover one of the girls didn’t have her scarf. Due to her slight ocd she wouldn’t consider heading up without it despite the spring conditions (in fairness to her I think her sister had chucked a snow ball down her neck earlier in the week) so eventually we headed to a ski shop for a replacement. At least we were able to get a bandana type thing to keep her cooler..
In the end we had a good system of getting everything laid out and checked the night before to avoid further disasters. In fact that’s a pretty good (if obvious) tip in itself for families!
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@EdYarker, I followed the plan you had in your mind. We started as early as possible—I think my son tried skiing for the first time at two years and four months, not even 2.5 years old, like my daughter.
Generally, in the first years, we only went for a couple of weeks per year and stayed in Kinderhotels. So they combined ski holidays with those super hotels (before COVID it was cheaper, and for kids under 6 it was reasonably priced).
After that, and especially after COVID, we started going to France. The reason: most resorts in Austria don’t have proper ski-in/ski-out, and even if some do, they are pretty expensive during school holidays.
Furthermore, our carnival week doesn’t always match the Paris holidays or half term in the UK, so we could avoid the crowds from Austria and the Netherlands by heading to France.
Now I’m planning for next winter to visit South Tyrol (also for other reasons, but that’s off topic).
It’s time for some really good pizza and panna cotta (and an espresso / Bombardino for me).
They still don’t carry my board for me, but on flat sections they can now pull me along.
Enjoy this time...soon you will struggling to follow them...
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| EdYarker wrote: |
| .... we arrived at the gondola to discover one of the girls didn’t have her scarf. |
One thing you learn is that your rucksack needs to be filled with spares of anything that might be forgotten or lost!
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@j b, we have always a rucksack with exta scarfs, gloves etc for the kids + some extras.
Usually if we are in a resort where you have to go with the Gondel up etc, i live it somewhere and pick it up when we return.
Only once in Vaujany the Ski Patrol took it and i was searching it for 45 min.
btw rucksack ? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| j b wrote: |
| EdYarker wrote: |
| .... we arrived at the gondola to discover one of the girls didn’t have her scarf. |
One thing you learn is that your rucksack needs to be filled with spares of anything that might be forgotten or lost! |
And full parade with head to toe checklist prior to stepping outside the door.
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I did indeed carry quite a bulging ruck with me and just about started to remember to remove it before getting on chair lifts by the end of the week! Drinks and spare mittens came in very handy but that scarf debacle was a complete oversight!
@turms2, you did well to get yours going before Covid. I’m sure you are reaping the rewards now. South Tyrol (Dolomites?) should be a lovely place to take some fast skiing older kids!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@EdYarker, yes Dolomites.
Never been there with the kids, so i am lookig forward what they would say after our first trip....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| EdYarker wrote: |
| South Tyrol (Dolomites?) should be a lovely place to take some fast skiing older kids! |
Oh it is, as I reported in Feb this year 
I think I never carried girls skis in the morning, only a few evenings when they were particularly exhausted or there was a hill or icy pavement. If necessary resistance could be mitigated by going for a hot chocolate at base before heading home (we’ve got that walk, need a chocolate first?). And while some disapprove, simple ski carrying straps that fit in a jacket pocket really are a game changer.
Otherwise “Daddy I’m tired” was met with a definite “yes so am I”. They need to understand the holiday isn’t only for them, and some kids never go. 20 mins of exertion is worth it for a whole day of skiing.
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@Orange200, where is you report? didnt find it.
I think i have spoiled a little bit my kids with France and absolut ski in ski out.
However that was for me a holiday. Dont bother to find parking etc
Lucky that after big research i found something almost ski in ski out also in South Tyrol.
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You know it makes sense.
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Sounds like you hade a great trip and really like your approach and mindset to getting the family skiing.
I can totally vouch for a better half who wants a pretty place to stay... still trying to get full marks from Mrs Spesh on that
| EdYarker wrote: |
| My problem is now that having saved 9 years for the first trip, I’ve only got one year to get some funds together for the second! |
It is quite surprising how you can find money to go skiing. We're not high earners at all but with shopping around, buying kit on Vinted and just waiting for the best deals, we've managed 2x trips - Christmas (Crystal Black Friday deal) and Easter (self drive with Sunweb) - for the last two years. When the kids are super-excited to go then it kind of drives you nuts to forego some luxuries that could go toward a lift pass. Whener my kids talk about eating out I jokingly remind them that "it's half a lift pass" 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks @Specialman, I’m a bit of a sucker for Alpine villages as well, so happy to indulge my wife on that one if possible.
I will try to use some of your strategies with my girls to save up for next year. You are doing very well to get away twice a year!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Orange200, just finished it...nice
Feeling strange going back to South Tyrol after almost 16 Years....life is unpredictable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@EdYarker, I'm skint every other day of the year but it's worth it, beans on toast daily is my strategy.
Seriously though, when you get the bug it becomes a bit of an overwhelming urge to ski. I'm definitely inclined to think more and more about lesser-known resorts though, especially when snow quality is great, the actual number of surface runs/kilometres isn't as much of a deal breaker. I have also read a few threads on SHs this season about people basing themselves in an area and driving around to ski under a collective area pass. Like you've discovered, the ski buses in Austria are great and that's definitely something I think we'll explore next season.
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@EdYarker, glad it all went so well. Great that you found such a good balance between a tricky set of requirements.
There's an old adage that goes something like "you regret the money you didn't spend, not the money you did". I might have corrupted it a bit, but I think that, to a point, it's applicable to family ski trips. Particularly things like private tuition.
The hotel looks very good value, and free kids ski passes are hugely helpful. Hopefully as the kids get better and older, you wind down the cost of tuition and offset needing to buy ski passes.
You could do apartment + self cater for similar price point as HB hotel, but that's a very different experience for all. There's something special about having your bed made while you're out skiing 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sod that we hired a 1-bed apartment and the girls shared the sofa bed in the living room for 3 years running…
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@snowdave, or...
I dont think that after 40 years or (hopefully) more, i will Look Back and regret that i did a Lot of skiing
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@turms2, I think that's the same thing. Unless your skiing is free!
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@snowdave, I must say that I can think of many times I have regretted money I did spend… but perhaps not so much on ski trips (maybe just the occasional restaurant choice)!
Yes I think the good hotel was quite key to the trip’s success. I would always book decent HB hotel over SC, if price is comparable. The only downside is having a little less space (although we are quite happy if there’s a nice balcony) and lack of flexibility over dinner times etc, but that’s minimal compared to the benefits and not having to cook! I dare say we will end up SC in the future to save cash though.
I had the same thoughts about saving on tuition but needing to pay more for passes in the future. There do seem to be quite a few good deals for children/ young teens in a number of resorts late season so will concentrate on them for the next few years.
@Specialman, I had a great week in St Johan in Tirol before the kids were born. We skied 5 different areas on the Kitz ski pass (maybe called something different now), all with easy bus or train links. May need to wait a few years before trying something similar with the girls!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My wife isn't that keen on restaurant food or eating out on a too regular basis. Which I do get in some ways. Buffet style is less of an issue. No waiting around, you can pick, try, choose. Eat as much or as little as you want.
Self catering we don't find too much of a burden - doesn't have to be gourmet cooking. And packet soups, bread, cheese, saucisson can be used to pad everything out. A beer or glass of wine along with a bluetooth speaker playing some tunes helps! I think it's also better when the kids are younger and less settled in a formal/public environment.
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@EdYarker, thank you so much for this. Some great advice.
I'm hoping to take my 3 kids, ages 7, 7 and 9, for their first trip next year.
My plan to keep cost down is to take them out of school, we can do 4 days without getting a fine.
I thought about doing the fridge but, like you, thought again after seeing the prices. I thought might as well try and go for the real thing as a little taster trip to see if they like it.
I'm thinking Italy for cheap flights and car hire.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have now done 2 x trips with kids to Flaine and 2x trips to Avoriaz, all at easter except one of the Flaine trips which was the week before Xmas.
Next year we might try to recruit a few families to check out Samoens - from what I can see, if you can live with getting the bus to the lift, the accom you can get in Samoens looks alot nicer than the equivalent stuff on the mountain in the higher purpose built resorts.
For cost-savings:
- Easter (or week before Xmas) wins hands down
- I use Avios flights for flights (but you need to be organised when booking well in advance),
- For car hire I use Europcar and get an EV which will get you to and from Geneva to Grnad Massif or Portes Du Soleil on a single charge (and you dont have to recharge it before returning).
- For accom Ive found good prices on Booking.com and Vrbo.com - or Pierre Et Vacances when they have a sale on... Sunweb can be cheap but double check that youre actually making a saving vs buying accom and pass separately as its not always a given in my experience...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Layne, very fair points re SC v HB. I guess it’s very much each to their own. I must admit by the 7th night we weren’t looking forward to our 5 course feast quite as much as on the 1st or 2nd!
@AliAfro, good luck with your plans (I feel your pain with the twins). A decent strategy taking them out of school. If it’s latish season there should be a few good kids deals around for the ages of your children- especially the younger ones. I’ve heard Italy has very cheap car hire from a few airports so that’s a good money saver as well.
@AliAfro, I looked at Samoens a couple of years ago as it fitted the brief of pretty town, short transfer and good for beginners (I understand Morillon has one of the best green runs for beginners into the top village). I agree that there are plenty of reasonable SC apartments there if you are prepared to bus it. It was doing free passes for under 8s at the time, so it’s gone off the radar for the last couple of years now my girls are 9 but I would imagine we will have another look once they improve and we look for somewhere with some more mileage.
Thanks for the other money saving tips. Some good ones there. I also use Booking.com quite a bit to see what’s out there. With hotels it’s always worth going onto their own websites as they often do cheaper deals than on a hub (as was the case with us this year).
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| AliAfro wrote: |
| - For accom Ive found good prices on Booking.com and Vrbo.com - or Pierre Et Vacances when they have a sale on... Sunweb can be cheap but double check that youre actually making a saving vs buying accom and pass separately as its not always a given in my experience... |
Tourist information and/or immo/agency is another option.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Layne, have you had much luck in those alternative than booking.com?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@abc, I have never used booking.com to book a skiing apartment. Only used resort accommodation websites and immo's for many years.
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Poster: A snowHead
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With young children and SC v HB, consider mealtimes. As we went to Spain/Andorra, and then Banff with 8h time difference, we wanted to be able to feed the girls at “our” usual time rather than local time. Waiting for their places to open and serve would have created very whiny little ones. It helps that generally we have something light in the evening, if at all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Layne, I see.
I only start seeing a few apartments showing up on booking.com in the last couple years. It was hotel/B&B in the past.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I would always book decent HB hotel over SC, if price is comparable.
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Depends what you mean by "comparable" I suppose. SC is likely to be substantially cheaper other things being equal - and if money is not any problem I would always choose to rent an attractive SC place and eat out in a variety of restaurants, or buy stuff at a traiteur. Of course if money is no object you rent a chalet and buy in a chef who will cook you whatever you want!
How do people with small kids cope with ordinary hotels (as opposed to purpose-run family chalets) if the kids are ideally going to be fed, and in bed, before adults sit round for hours over their evening meal?
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@Origen, I agree that will much smaller children SC probably gives more control of the narrative. Most ski hotels I’ve stayed at start dinners relatively early (6.30ish). But even that is probably a bit late for very young ones.
And SC is of course invariably cheaper than hotel HB. That’s why I was happy to find the latter at a comparable price to most SC options available (especially if you deduct a few €100 which would be required to buy food for morning and evening meals- even if cooling yourself).
But there are certainly pros and cons to both.
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FAQ
