 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi..
Can a boot and ski combination cause feet problems.
Context.
I bought a new pair of pro fitted boots last year and had an horrendous time with them in Arabba on their first use. I paired them with my Kendo 92s. I went back to the UK and had them adjusted.
Took the boots to Les Arcs last easter and no probs at all after the had been adjusted. (Can't remember what skis I had but I'm guessing my fischer 76s.)
I've just been to Wengen, again no probs with the 76s
I'm currently back in Arabba with my Kendo 92s and I'm getting pain again in my right foot.... nowhere near as bad as my first outing, pre adjustment but all the same its got me wondering if it's something to do with the wider ski and pressure turning etc
Hope that makes sense?
Ta Gaz
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Gaz_H, well the Kendo92s are not as stiff as Mantras but they are still a pretty stiff ski. If the skis are narrower than your tibial plateau then the width is not undue, but still could be a factor. But I think that main thing is the stiffness, they require quite a lot of pressure to get them to behave.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The other thing that might affect you is the binding delta, though that normally results in aching legs rather than sore feet. Assuming the Fischers have a standard adjustable rail system binding, this will give you a flat boot i.e. the ski base and boot sole are perfectly parallel. I don't know how the Kendos are set up, but if the binding raises either the heel or toe slightly, you may be compensating for this.
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I can't imagine a direct link between the skis and your intermittent boot issues, but I've often spoken about how often foot/boot problems can be a result of the way somebody skis, and sometimes resolvable through improving technique.
So is it possible that you're skiing differently on the different skis, particularly if they're different lengths and you're finding it difficult to get the weight forward enough on the wider ones?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My wife hat badly aching feet which stopped once we reduced her delta from 10 to 6mm. Anecdotal, but still.
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@Gaz_H, Kendos aren't exceptionally stiff, nor wide, but (I'm sure) they are stiffer and defo wider than your Fischers.
How (nominally) stiff are your boots? It may be that they're not really stiff enough to drive the Kendos so you're over flexing and distorting them?
Or you're just getting over tired on them?
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To answer my own question.
It's the skis not the boots. I'm in Arabba at the moment and hired some Stockli pistes skis to test my theory. 70 waste, shorter and lighter and my issues has completely gone.
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Interesting. So something about the skis is putting you somehow off-balance, or differently stanced, such that your feet are being forced into a different position within the boots.
Do you feel as if you're skiing them differently, like they're forcing you further back or something? Are the mid-fats significantly longer? I could see how that might have some such effect.
Be worth looking at the binding mounting point - I've never really played with this but many off-piste skis come marked with a choice of mounting positions that may suit different types of skier, IIRC up to a cm forward or backward from the measured "mid" point. What the effect of this would be I'm not exactly sure, but clearly it must affect the fore-aft weight distribution in some way. It's been discussed on earlier threads on here, but I've never really fully grasped it. 
Some bindings allow you to adjust this, even if that's not their intention, by using the length adjustment to move both the toe and heel pieces backwards or forwards, certainly something to look for if yours can do the same
Or else it's just wider skis in general, although it's difficult to see how this would have such a marked effect - I've been switching between my 65/66mm SL and GS piste skis and my 120mm fats since in my new boots over the last few weeks, and any discomfort (there was some pinching and a little bruising before the boots were adjusted) has been exactly the same, i.e. the width doesn't seem to make any difference to me. I guess you could rent another mid-fat ski to see if you get the same issues.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Binding delta can easily create issues of the described gravity!
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| The other thing that might affect you is the binding delta. |
This can be a thing - the combination of binding, boot and ski to adversely affect the delta.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
The other thing that might affect you is the binding delta, though that normally results in aching legs rather than sore feet.
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Yes, I am very sensitive to delta (testing showed I balance best in my boots with heels & toes the same height). So ideally a delta of 0 (which usually needs shimming under the toepiece for most bindings). I can tolerate up to ~2mm delta but any more than that puts me massively in the back seat and my quads soon let me know!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I can tell 1mm (at most) of delta between the deltas of two setups. As if there was a tipping point, literally. Provided they are roughly in the zone. I care little if I have 10 or 8 mm of delta, both will ride terrible. 1 or 2, quite the difference!
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Just catching after returning home today.
@Chaletbeauroc, I've not really felt a difference in skiing the Kendos. The pain kicks in about 2 hours in. They're are longer at 177 compared to 171 on my 76s.
Btw, I skied the Kendos on my old boots in Banff and didn't have any issues but that was on Canadian pistes with considerably more 'powder than this last week
I am conscious that they are longer and have a much bigger radius so I'm obviously skiing longer arcs.
My rentals this week have been significantly smaller at 164 x 70 and a lot lighter.
BTW I'm not familiar with the term Delta?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Gaz_H wrote: |
BTW I'm not familiar with the term Delta? |
Nor was I, but I've seen it mentioned a few times here in a couple of other threads so have read up a little bit about it.
Seems that there are two things at play which combine to raise your heel more than your toe with respect to the ski. First of these is built into the boot, just like normal shoes where the heel is higher, and that's part of the boots specification, known as the ramp angle. My new ones are 4 degrees, for example.
Then the 'delta' seems to be a difference in height between the front and rear binding height, which clearly will increase or decrease the effective ramp angle. Seems to be something often talked about in touring circles; I've never come across it at all apart from on here. Not sure if it's something most people ever think about, but it can be modified by shimming (i.e. putting a spacer) under the heel or toe piece of the binding.
I could see that it might be relevant in your case, given an anomaly on one pair of skis alone, and that it may be that the boot's ramp angle is different from your old ones, so perhaps you could look up your old and new boots to see if you could find it - if there is a difference then you could try changing the delta, by removing the binding and remounting it with a shim under heel or tow to compensate and bring the overall angle to what it was on your old boots.
I would stress I'm only speculating here, not something I've even thought about before, so others may be much better able to advise.
There's a lot of far too detailed (for me) discussion about it on earlier threads, e.g. https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=140333
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