 Poster: A snowHead
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Good afternoon, I hope you can help me.
My Daughter (15) went on a school trip to Alpendorf in December and had the best time and now wants us to go skiing as a family. She is the only one who has been before, I just had my first lesson on a dry slope, totally panicked each time I started moving and spent a lot of the time picking myself up off the floor - I will get more lessons! My Son is 12 but a confident kid and will pick it up no problem after some lessons. Husband will take lessons with me before we go and when we get there.
I am looking at Dec 12th/13th for a week - we want to be home for christmas plus hoping it's not as busy?
What I think I am looking for is a resort that is mainly gentle beginner and intermediate, with a good English speaking ski school and the ability for my children to go off safely to find the suitable slopes for them (without me being nervous about them having to go off too far) and ending up back together again where the slopes finish/meet for food etc.
Alpendorf seemed perfect weather wise when my Daughter was there, sunny, snowy no wind, bit icy in places though - it didn't snow but they had snow cannons if needed. It seemed ideal but she would like to try another ski area.
Flying from Gatwick, the shorter the transfer the better but not a deal breaker.
Not fussed for night life, a quieter resort is good.
Pretty?
Any advice welcome, thank you!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@TheKidsMadeMeDoIt, you're looking at a week that's very, very early in the season, which means conditions can be really variable then. A lot of resorts won't even be opening until around then.
I'd suggest dropping any hopes of pretty, as you might be looking at high purpose built resorts at that time of the year.
If I was in your shoes I think I'd be looking at Val Thorens, France as an option, with a caveat that if the weather is bad it can be very bleak up there.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@TheKidsMadeMeDoIt, Welcome to Snowheads. Come back to the Ski Amade but stay in Flachau. I assume your daughter was skiing with one of Snowslippers, IBT or 43 North. If it was her first trip she probably didn't get as far as Flachau anyway and you still have here, Kleinarl and Zauchensee to explore. That week is one of our favourite weeks of the season. Direct flights on Saturdays from Gatwick, short transfers, plenty of great cheap accomodation (Have a look at Sunweb UK if you want Self-catering). Low Season lift passes and great spots for evening eats. Follow the Ski Amade thread for more first timer questions or for accommodation tips. Flachau has 4 Ski Schools and all the ski instructors speak English. I'd recommend "Sport Am Jet" as they have a beginners area at mid-station which will be snowsure and is a better family rendezvous for lunch.
Ski Amade forum link:
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=173402&highlight=
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Good on you, what a great first post. Honestly scared but gonna try anyway. Nice.
Early Dec, snowy, pretty. Pick any two. For snow, people usually go high, which means no trees and thus losing definition in the white on cloudy days.
You don’t have a problem with daughters school and lessons, no local authority penalty? Lucky. A great time to learn as the slopes will be empty.
I defer to my red and white learned friends expertise. I think Andorra might work as they tend to make snow earlier in the season to be ready for an early Dec holiday. But if Flachau has the real stuff, go there.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you all for replies so far - appreciate it. I will take a look at your suggestions.
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You don’t have a problem with daughters school and lessons, no local authority penalty? Lucky. A great time to learn as the slopes will be empty.
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I do yes and ideally I wanted to go 16th until 23rd but ones I have seen travel sat/sat - sun/sun?
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
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Based on timing etc
I would go to Val !
( see weather thread !)
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Val d'Isere
It has extensive very snow sure beginner terrain, the town isn't ugly, although it is no longer a quintessential alpine hamlet, and there is some tree lined terrain for if the weather closes in.
It's main downsides are that it is expensive and you will probably have to get the lift back down to town at the end of some days (some of the return runs are fairly steep). However, pre Christmas you should be able to find some reasonable deals on accomodation, there is a slightly cheaper beginner lift pass and IMO downloading at the end of the day really isn't that bad
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I would look at Montgenevre. 90 mins from Turin airport, great snow record and perfect for beginners. We also found it much cheaper than a lot of the bigger French resorts. It’s an attractive resort, not chocolate box but has a nice village centre. No nightlife whatsoever apart from The Graal pub.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Seefeld. Fly to Innsbruck, 30 min road transfer or 45-60 mins on the train. Pretty town, great for beginners with good progression slopes for your daughter. Lots of other activities to do as well such as swimming pool complex, ice skating, sledging, cross country skiing, snow shoe walking, etc. Lots of very good quality hotels.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@TheKidsMadeMeDoIt, Don't go to "Val". Yes the snow might be great but the weather is likely to be shite and the prices are crazy compared to other suggestions. Go there when you can all ski. Your shout at the end of the day.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This year was different because the alps had a good dump of snow in November and it stayed dry and reasonably cold, it is often very different. If you can go late January or early March.
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I've faced this question for a few years with our 3 kids, and just built a tool to make these decisions easier. You might find it useful
https://whereshouldwe.ski/
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 You know it makes sense.
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@TheKidsMadeMeDoIt, I don't know enough resorts to make a firm recommendation of "you should go here" but let me explain the rationale behind our first family ski holiday in 2016: we had 5 kids(!) between 16 and 8. They had all done a lot of dry slope lessons (this is a big help, but it's not the same) and, importantly, several days each skiing in Scotland. A lot of the things that you have mentioned as considerations were the things that influenced our choice. I'm going to assume you are planning to stay in a hotel
We chose Galtür in Austria, not least because we'd skied it when we were newly married 20 years before, and we went over Christmas. If you have extended family commitments that mean you can't do that, then you can't but it has it's advantages (below).
Pros
- Galtür is a beautiful, genuine alpine village
- The Galtür family lift pass was a bargain because it was 2 adults plus any number of chidren for one price (with 5 kids, that saved us about £700!) Look at the price of lift passes for kids before making your final decision.
- Everything funnels back to the same point, which means meeting up for lunch after morning lessons was easy ("you mean I can have pizza for lunch every day, including Christmas day?" [14 year old])
- Small enough to not worry that anyone is lost, large enough that you would want to go back to ski the bits you missed
- Austian ski schools do morning and afternoon, whereas "traditionally" (but I'm showing my age), France and Italy did half-days [I know that there are several ski schools in the Dolomites that do full-day kids' ski school, so I'm prepared to be shot down by several snowheads on this one]. I would guess that you are in a not dissimilar position to my parents 45 years ago when I first skied: 4 hours of lessons for everyone.
- High (for Austria) and therefore quite snow sure (but not as snow sure as places like Tignes)
- Nothing south facing, so the snow doesn't annoyingly melt on you: that was a very very warm year and conditions weren't great. The aspect was a big bonus (and one of the reasons we chose the resort)
- Christmas in an alpine hotel is lovely: 6 or 7 course meal, no washing up.
- Christmas works out a lot cheaper: we sneaked "Santa presents" in the bag that held the car seats for the two youngest. None of the kids cared at all that it was a "small" Christmas; they just wanted to ski on Christmas day
- Turkeys are expensive (if you are buying them)
Cons
- This is the one reason why I would say Galtür doesn't work for you: there isn't an easy transition from nursery slopes to bigger runs. The Familienabfahrt blue is quite "red" and is likely to be a challenge if you can't keep up with the kids: they go up the chairlifts and you feel confined to the lower drag lifts.
- Ski bus: the skiing isn't in Galtür, but a couple of kilometees up the road in Wirl. This may be off-putting, particularly when lugging skis and poles seems like hard work, but actually it's fine: a bus will be along in 5 minutes. It has its upsides: the hotel we were staying in did free apres-ski cakes and snacks to get you to buy drinks at the hotel not in Wirl (has anyone warned you that you will be hungry and thirsty?)
- To be this high, it's about as far west as you can get in the Tyrol, almost in the Vorarlberg: longer transfers (we were 4.5 hours in a minibus from Munich, but it was fine: the kids slept). Zürich is closer, Innsbrück, too.
- Because it's high and cold, there's less tree cover so the skiing doesn't have that that Austrian feel nor does it have the stark beauty of the French Alps or the amazing scenery of the Dolomites [but I bet the kids won't care until they are over 18]
- Nothing south facing, This is a bad thing too, because it can be cold. This is the problem with weather: predicting it a year in advance.
Hopefully this might help you think of a few questions you will ask yourselves before making a choice. I will finish by saying that if you can go later than 13th December, you may find a lot of other things that matter fall into place more easily.
PS. Love the username!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thank you everyone, some great responses and advice. I will be spending sometime having a good search from all of your suggestions - thanks again!
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 Poster: A snowHead
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| TheKidsMadeMeDoIt wrote: |
Good afternoon, I hope you can help me.
My Daughter (15) went on a school trip to Alpendorf in December and had the best time and now wants us to go skiing as a family. She is the only one who has been before, I just had my first lesson on a dry slope, totally panicked each time I started moving and spent a lot of the time picking myself up off the floor - I will get more lessons! My Son is 12 but a confident kid and will pick it up no problem after some lessons. Husband will take lessons with me before we go and when we get there.
I am looking at Dec 12th/13th for a week - we want to be home for christmas plus hoping it's not as busy?
What I think I am looking for is a resort that is mainly gentle beginner and intermediate, with a good English speaking ski school and the ability for my children to go off safely to find the suitable slopes for them (without me being nervous about them having to go off too far) and ending up back together again where the slopes finish/meet for food etc.
Alpendorf seemed perfect weather wise when my Daughter was there, sunny, snowy no wind, bit icy in places though - it didn't snow but they had snow cannons if needed. It seemed ideal but she would like to try another ski area.
Flying from Gatwick, the shorter the transfer the better but not a deal breaker.
Not fussed for night life, a quieter resort is good.
Pretty?
Any advice welcome, thank you! |
That early in the season you have to go high to guarantee skiing, unless you want to risk booking last minute (and maybe find you're too late, if it's a poor start to the season). Also many resorts will not be open that early, irrespective of snow conditions.
Possibilities for early season snow in high resorts:- the Tarentaise resorts in France; the Haute Maurienne resorts in France; Cervinia in Italy; Zermatt in Switzerland - if you can afford it. All should have many English speaking (even native speaking) ski instructors & have UK tour operators to sort out your holiday.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You are very much describing a classic first family ski holiday scenario and you are thinking about the right things already.
One big picture point first. Mid December is early season. Some years it is great and some years it is thinner lower down. What helps at that time of year is choosing either a resort with strong snowmaking and access to higher skiing, or simply going higher to stack the odds in your favour.
For beginners and families you are really looking for three things. Wide gentle blues that are genuinely confidence building. A good English speaking ski school. And a layout where people can ski at their own pace but naturally end up back in the same areas for lunch and the end of the day.
Saalbach Hinterglemm often works well for families because the skiing is intuitive and the snowmaking is extensive. Most of the terrain that beginners and early intermediates use is higher up than the village and tends to be prioritised early in the season. In a typical December there is usually plenty open for learning and cruising, though as with anywhere that time of year conditions can vary.
If you would prefer to lean more towards snow certainty, there are a couple of very good alternatives.
Obergurgl is higher and very reliable in December. The terrain is wide and forgiving, ski schools are excellent and the atmosphere is calm and confidence friendly. It is not a big or traditionally pretty village, but it is very effective for first timers.
A slightly left field option is Levi. Snow reliability in December is excellent, English is widely spoken and the slopes are gentle and relaxed. One thing to be aware of is that at that time of year you are skiing in the dark, with the pistes fully floodlit, which some people actually enjoy and others are less keen on. It is not Alpine in scale or scenery, but for a first family trip where ease, calm conditions and guaranteed snow matter most it can work surprisingly well.
In France, Avoriaz and La Plagne are also strong early season options with high skiing, good English speaking ski schools and layouts that make meeting back up easy.
A quick reassurance on the dry slope experience. Many people who feel nervous on dry slopes find snow completely different. It is slower, softer and far more forgiving. Taking lessons together before you go and again in resort is exactly the right approach.
Overall, any of the above would work. If you want to minimise weather uncertainty, go higher. If you like the idea of a large friendly area with a very intuitive layout, Saalbach remains a sensible option.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
A quick reassurance on the dry slope experience. Many people who feel nervous on dry slopes find snow completely different. It is slower, softer and far more forgiving. Taking lessons together before you go and again in resort is exactly the right approach.
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Thank you, this is very reassuring. And great info thank you, I'll have a look at your suggestions
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Do people think there will be good English speaking instructors available before the holidays? Few clients means few instructors?
Or am I conflating English speaking with native?
Just wondering if that’s worth a caution here. I guess most instructors have enough English to teach the basics well enough.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@RedandWhiteFlachau, Currently looking at your suggestion of Flachau, on the ski map it seems alot of the blue runs cross over with the red runs, I am imagining collisions left right and centre?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| TheKidsMadeMeDoIt wrote: |
| @RedandWhiteFlachau, Currently looking at your suggestion of Flachau, on the ski map it seems alot of the blue runs cross over with the red runs, I am imagining collisions left right and centre? |
Yes, that area is well known for skiers blindly skiing through junctions without looking and hitting other skiers. But its fine, they have built larger medical facilities than other resorts.
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Yes, that area is well known for skiers blindly skiing through junctions without looking and hitting other skiers. But its fine, they have built larger medical facilities than other resorts.
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Is it generally like that in most ski resorts? Blues and reds crossing over?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@TheKidsMadeMeDoIt, It's certainly not uncommon.
I've never been to Flachau but I would be surprised if it's worse than anywhere else.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thank you
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Part of the reason it's not uncommon, it's naturally green and blue runs have a tendency to traverse the hill, where as reds and blacks go more fall line.
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 You know it makes sense.
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I’d echo others that have said it is very early in the season. Snow conditions are more likely to me sketchy and resorts are less likely to be fully open due to these snow conditions.
This may not be too off putting to folk with many trips under their belts who know that conditions are variable.
For first timers like yourselves good conditions are arguably more important. You don’t want to be stood on an icy piste asking yourself what all the fuss is about skiing.
If your dates aren’t set in concrete, I’d be going later in the season. This opens up more resorts to choose from. The days are longer. It’ll likely be warmer.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Ah yes, my mistake.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| TheKidsMadeMeDoIt wrote: |
| @RedandWhiteFlachau, Currently looking at your suggestion of Flachau, on the ski map it seems alot of the blue runs cross over with the red runs, I am imagining collisions left right and centre? |
The good thing about the week you are proposing is that there are very few tourists. Most of the skiers that week will be locals and they tend to be able to ski a bit better.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| RedandWhiteFlachau wrote: |
| TheKidsMadeMeDoIt wrote: |
| @RedandWhiteFlachau, Currently looking at your suggestion of Flachau, on the ski map it seems alot of the blue runs cross over with the red runs, I am imagining collisions left right and centre? |
The good thing about the week you are proposing is that there are very few tourists. Most of the skiers that week will be locals and they tend to be able to ski a bit better. |
This! It’s one of my favourite times of the ski season (along with 2nd/3rd/4th week of January )
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thank you
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