 Poster: A snowHead
|
Dear god, now he is posting AI slop. 
Its demonstrably a sock account, I am out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@aklos, the one thing that is entirely predictable is that the activities on ski slopes are unpredictable.
Every uphill skier should be skiing like the unpredictable or at least the unlikely may happen below them. Any skier with experience can see a beginner a mile off and the thought process at this point should be that that beginner might do something out of the ordinary.
You are going round in circles trying to convince all sensible people that night is day here. If you’re uphill it is irrelevant what you want to do, go fast, turn short, wide, straight line or jump; you must be in control to avoid those below you. That can be frustrating at times but it’s skiing, people are out for the love and fun of it. Don’t spoil that by being a hard headed selfish pr**k who causes an accident.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| aklos wrote: |
| eblunt wrote: |
| But the follow ups have been very weak and you've really spoiled all the good work, so overall 0/10 |
Not everyone is at school or in a desperate need for teacher's approval here. If you have something relevant to contribute, do it. |
So you can't answer the point about mirrors is what you are really trying to say
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| GreenDay wrote: |
Dear god, now he is posting AI slop.
Its demonstrably a sock account, I am out. |
Risk management is a sector that many people study, it is a pity that you can only think about AI when reading something relevant to the topic being discussed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| eblunt wrote: |
So you can't answer the point about mirrors is what you are really trying to say |
When learning to drive I was told to always turn my head. It actually works.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| GreenDay wrote: |
Also, stop with the "driving" comparisons. |
Given that they apparently don't actually ski it's probably the only way they can think of it, and why so much of what they write is so far wide of the mark.
Anyway this troll exercise will continue just as long as anyone keeps trying to make sensible replies to it |
Yeah the solution is for everyone to stop replying and put this person on ignore or for everyone to turn this into a nonsense thread.
Do not feed the troll.
I bet they are a middle lane hogger and don't think they are doing anything wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| aklos wrote: |
| eblunt wrote: |
So you can't answer the point about mirrors is what you are really trying to say |
When learning to drive I was told to always turn my head. It actually works. |
So when you are driving, you are turning your head every second or so to look behind you ? That would significantly increase your reaction time to braking in front of you, increasing the chances of running into someone ahead breaking.
Sounds like you are just as much of a danger to other road users as you are to other skiers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ManiaMuse wrote: |
I bet they are a middle lane hogger and don't think they are doing anything wrong. |
Worse than that, they've just admitted they spend half their time with their head turned in the opposite direction when driving. Just pray that you're not in front of them in a car.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 5-01-26 14:28; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@aklos, why did you choose this topic as your first post on snowheads?
(I assume you were aware, from the previous discussions that you said you looked at, of the majority opinion)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| aklos wrote: |
| I want to talk about that FIS "downhill skier has priority" rule, because frequently it does not fit real-life situations on crowded slopes. In many cases, responsibility is shared, - it depends on visibility, crowding, speed differences, and how people are actually behaving. Just being downhill doesn’t magically protect you, and, to my knowledge, courts don’t treat it that way either. |
Equal responsibility in visibility, crowding, speed & behaviours. So if someone wipes out a person lower downhill, then more than likely they have broken one of those responsibilities.
You cant really blame the person lower down for being in the way. I guess somoene further out can not be so much at fault if they have wiped out themselves & slidding down an icy slope on their back bottom where they are unable to control their actions.
As for your video, the snowboarder did not look once to the right. They are responsible for what is below them & would have been well in view from further back. The vid looks deliberately cut to be further forward, but clocking skiers who traverse across the whole width is a danger that should have been clocked further up the slope. If the boarder had seen them, they would have traversed to the right themselves & avoided a collision.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| dode wrote: |
| In the main the slopes are pretty well self policed by the slope users. Irresponsible behaviour will get called out by others on the hill. |
Only true to an extent, but becoming more and more untrue as time passes. I got hammered square in my back by an out of control Varsity missile in Tignes a couple of years ago, and some bloody French woman started on me because I swore at him when he explained that I had "turned in front of" him. His pals that he had been racing against were all most concerned about how he was, not one asked me if I was OK. I was stottin'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| horizon wrote: |
@aklos, why did you choose this topic as your first post on snowheads?
(I assume you were aware, from the previous discussions that you said you looked at, of the majority opinion) |
Because this is an interesting topic to discuss, with diversity of opinions and clear need to review, given that both operational and legal environment already transitioned from the absolute "uphill fault" or "one needs to foresee all" principles. Obviously, the actual opinions are the most welcome, but I do recognize that many people tend to resort to personal attacks when facing the reality contradicting their axiomatic principles and am fine with that as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There is little diversity of opinion, and certainly no need to review.
Although I suppose there might still be some people here who have not yet formed the opinion that you're just an attention-seeking little troll who knows nothing whatsoever about mountain sports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| thecramps wrote: |
| dode wrote: |
| In the main the slopes are pretty well self policed by the slope users. Irresponsible behaviour will get called out by others on the hill. |
Only true to an extent, but becoming more and more untrue as time passes. |
Many people do not realize that it is no longer a winter sport for selected few but a leisure activity for millions of untrained people some of which see snow first time in their life and do not have money for any lessons.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| aklos wrote: |
Right, to me there are two connected things - the current rules rely on 'foreseeable/predictable situation" which does not always work on the pistes, especially as they become more and more overcrowded.
Which, in turn, 1) makes the absolute interpretation of these rules impossible (and courts agree with that) and 2) calls for better measures to make the situation more predictable (which will obviously meet backlash from both skiers and resorts).
I am not sure about the skiers self-regulation concept that your mentioned. It only works in fairly specific and well controlled areas. If we remove driver permits, road signs, traffic lights, speed control and enforcement from the roads, it will not become self regulated but rather turn into a dangerous mess. |
No, i certainly disagree with this
The current rules do NOt rely on foreseeable/predictable situations - quite the opposite in fact, as they require the expectation of unexpected behaviours by the downhill skier.
And then you bring lots more people into the equation
Which to me makes the application of the Rules even more important.
Hence perhaps you could explain using say 2 or 3 specific examples of an accident where you feel the rules are inadequate - the uphill snowboarder above as discussed by many would not happen if the snowboarder acted in accordance with the rules - it wasn't even as if the learner did anything unexpected ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| aklos wrote: |
| eblunt wrote: |
So you can't answer the point about mirrors is what you are really trying to say |
When learning to drive I was told to always turn my head. It actually works. |
what did you learn to drive? I was told use my mirrors,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| sev112 wrote: |
| aklos wrote: |
Right, to me there are two connected things - the current rules rely on 'foreseeable/predictable situation" which does not always work on the pistes, especially as they become more and more overcrowded.
Which, in turn, 1) makes the absolute interpretation of these rules impossible (and courts agree with that) and 2) calls for better measures to make the situation more predictable (which will obviously meet backlash from both skiers and resorts).
I am not sure about the skiers self-regulation concept that your mentioned. It only works in fairly specific and well controlled areas. If we remove driver permits, road signs, traffic lights, speed control and enforcement from the roads, it will not become self regulated but rather turn into a dangerous mess. |
No, i certainly disagree with this
The current rules do NOt rely on foreseeable/predictable situations - quite the opposite in fact, as they require the expectation of unexpected behaviours by the downhill skier.
And then you bring lots more people into the equation
Which to me makes the application of the Rules even more important.
|
You misunderstood, for the rules to work, they should rely on the foreseeable/predictable environment which is frequently not there. As a result, applying them is not so easy and courts frequently share responsibility instead of assigning that to the uphill skiers. I trust you can find as many examples as you wish.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| biddpyat wrote: |
| aklos wrote: |
| eblunt wrote: |
So you can't answer the point about mirrors is what you are really trying to say |
When learning to drive I was told to always turn my head. It actually works. |
what did you learn to drive? I was told use my mirrors, |
In Europe or US you have to turn your head as well. Not sure about riding horses, donkeys or driving in other countries.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| eblunt wrote: |
So when you are driving, you are turning your head every second or so to look behind you ? That would significantly increase your reaction time to braking in front of you, increasing the chances of running into someone ahead breaking.
Sounds like you are just as much of a danger to other road users as you are to other skiers. |
That's just silly. In motorcycling and cycling it's called a lifesaver look and used when setting off and changing lanes. The idea being that you take some responsibility for your own safety regardless of the action of others. All skiers and snowboarders can benefit from some time spend on a motorbike/cycle.
Read this, the The motorcycle lifesaver check section, it can equally be applied to skiing - https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/the-5-elements-of-cbt/element-c/indicating-observation-osmpsl/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
This
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@aklos,
You turn your head when pulling off to check your blind spot, to ensure it is safe to pullout. The same as you would if you stopped at the side of the piste. Are you suggesting hurtling 80mph down the motorway that you turn your head to look out the back window? What if you have a van with no rear windows.
In a car collision, the car behind will 9 times out of 10 be at fault.
So what if the car in front had no brakelights & slammed on the brakes for a whiplash injury claim. The opinion will usually be that person had been driving to fast or close to be able to take evasive manoeuvres.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Gored wrote: |
@aklos,
In a car collision, the car behind will 9 times out of 10 be at fault.
So what if the car in front had no brakelights & slammed on the brakes for a whiplash injury claim. The opinion will usually be that person had been driving to fast or close to be able to take evasive manoeuvres. |
The "car behind is at fault" only applies when the car in front behaves normally and predictably. If the front car suddenly changes lane without signalling, slams the brakes for no reason, stops in the middle of a road, reverses, or has no brake lights, fault is often shared or even shifted to the front car. Traffic laws are about foreseeable behaviour, not who is behind, and that is how any law should be as nobody can be realistically expected to anticipate any random or erratic moves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@aklos, Care to provide some actual "Case Law" examples to back up your claims?
"Fault" is often deemed "shared" by insurance companies in order to reduce payouts, and is not based on any legal liabilities.
There is no "shared fault" in an accident in English law. The police will prosecute both drivers if they believe both are at fault. Otherwise, most likely the one behind.
Why do you think so many drivers have installed dash cams?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Dr John wrote: |
| eblunt wrote: |
So when you are driving, you are turning your head every second or so to look behind you ? That would significantly increase your reaction time to braking in front of you, increasing the chances of running into someone ahead breaking.
Sounds like you are just as much of a danger to other road users as you are to other skiers. |
That's just silly. In motorcycling and cycling it's called a lifesaver look and used when setting off and changing lanes. The idea being that you take some responsibility for your own safety regardless of the action of others. All skiers and snowboarders can benefit from some time spend on a motorbike/cycle.
Read this, the The motorcycle lifesaver check section, it can equally be applied to skiing - https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/the-5-elements-of-cbt/element-c/indicating-observation-osmpsl/ |
Excellent post 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, you are spot on. The thing with skiing is that the person in front is unpredictable. And the point you miss is that THEREFORE the person behind has to behave accordingly.
You want to ski empty pistes? Get good enough to spend your day on empty black runs. Or off piste. And until you are good enough to pass effectively, accept that the skier in front of you has the RIGHT to do whatever they want. And so give them enough room for whatever it is they might do.
When you get good enough at skiing you will be able to do this.
I well remember having similar thoughts when I started skiing. I even ran into somebody (they were fine, fortunately, I apologised profusely and politely) BUT thought it was partly their fault. I was wrong. It was all my fault. My skill level was not high enough for all that I could go faster than they were going and thus ‘needed’ to overtake. I was very wrong.
The person in front has the right to do whatever they want. The person behind has the right to spend all day off piste and not to have to worry about the person in front.
Otherwise the corollary of your position is that the person behind has the right to knock people over left, right, and centre. And they just don’t.
Now, defensive skiing, never ski to the side of the piste. Always leave space for an idiot to go around you.
When you can ski a lot better you too will be able to judge skiing around others. Until then, please remember the downhill skier has the right of way. Always.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| James the Last wrote: |
Yes, you are spot on. The thing with skiing is that the person in front is unpredictable. And the point you miss is that THEREFORE the person behind has to behave accordingly.
You want to ski empty pistes? Get good enough to spend your day on empty black runs. Or off piste. And until you are good enough to pass effectively, accept that the skier in front of you has the RIGHT to do whatever they want. And so give them enough room for whatever it is they might do.
When you get good enough at skiing you will be able to do this.
I well remember having similar thoughts when I started skiing. I even ran into somebody (they were fine, fortunately, I apologised profusely and politely) BUT thought it was partly their fault. I was wrong. It was all my fault. My skill level was not high enough for all that I could go faster than they were going and thus ‘needed’ to overtake. I was very wrong.
The person in front has the right to do whatever they want. The person behind has the right to spend all day off piste and not to have to worry about the person in front.
Otherwise the corollary of your position is that the person behind has the right to knock people over left, right, and centre. And they just don’t.
Now, defensive skiing, never ski to the side of the piste. Always leave space for an idiot to go around you.
When you can ski a lot better you too will be able to judge skiing around others. Until then, please remember the downhill skier has the right of way. Always. |
Defensive skiing is the way to go.
I would argue though that a narrow corridor at the very sides of the piste are a great place to ski on a crowded home run blue slope at 3.30pm. I've even had an instructor recommend it. The snow is usually better, most of the beginners tend to gravitate towards the middle of the piste for some reason and you can practise doing short turns really in control with flow. You can even play with the bumps next to the piste markers which is great for practising your moguls technique.
Just because you have to go slow because it is busy doesn't mean you can't get loads of turns in and practise things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@ManiaMuse, I've given up that area - too dangerous with boy racers thundering down it with no regard to... what might be ahead. Same old problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| James the Last wrote: |
When you can ski a lot better you too will be able to judge skiing around others. Until then, please remember the downhill skier has the right of way. Always. |
Thanks, you post is great at the individual level. I am more interested in discussing the system issues. On the typical holiday blues you have thousands of skiers per hour who won’t read, won’t follow, and often cannot even apply these rules. At that density and level of training, relying on the "uphill skier must always adapt" principle has no relevance to the safety, - it is rather a classic example of wishful thinking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@aklos, You're wrong. Just accept it. Quit while you're behind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| 195062 wrote: |
| @aklos, You're wrong. Just accept it. Quit while you're behind. |
It is not right or wrong competition, for that you can go to reddit. Everybody is welcome to say what they think about the topic (if you bother to read the first post).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| aklos wrote: |
| 195062 wrote: |
| @aklos, You're wrong. Just accept it. Quit while you're behind. |
It is not right or wrong competition, for that you can go to reddit. Everybody is welcome to say what they think about the topic (if you bother to read the first post). |
This ignores the central issue, which is that the spreadsheet is clearly allergic to Tuesdays. Once you factor in the quantum humidity of Bluetooth-enabled carrots, the argument collapses into a fax machine. Please update your sources or reboot the moon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| aklos wrote: |
| 195062 wrote: |
| @aklos, You're wrong. Just accept it. Quit while you're behind. |
It is not right or wrong competition, for that you can go to reddit. Everybody is welcome to say what they think about the topic (if you bother to read the first post). |
That's exactly what I've done. I've said what I think about the topic.
Perhaps you would like to give us a bit more background information. Let us know roughly your age and how many weeks of skiing you have under your belt.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 5-01-26 21:27; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Oh FFS...can we just ignore the troll?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@holidayloverxx, It seems not. As trolls go, it's quite good at what it's doing. I was nearly tempted to reply again myself, almost started typing...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@holidayloverxx, Ah, but rather like scammers on the phone it's fun to string them along for a while.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| 195062 wrote: |
| @holidayloverxx, Ah, but rather like scammers on the phone it's fun to string them along for a while. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GkfPPWdwURw
That boarder got a wake-up call. Although technically they would probably argue the boarder was downhill so had right of way.....however he did come in from the side without looking.
IMHO, it isn't always so clear cut that the downhill skier/boarder should have the right of way, in the same way as if a pedestrian leaps off the pavement and jumps in front of a bus, is it the bus driver's fault?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@king key, that's why there's a rule about making sure its clear when re-entering the piste...
The only rule that really matters is 'Respect other mountain users' whoever you are and wherever you're positioned on the mountain.
Bit of that just goes a very long way
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| king key wrote: |
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GkfPPWdwURw
That boarder got a wake-up call. Although technically they would probably argue the boarder was downhill so had right of way.....however he did come in from the side without looking.
IMHO, it isn't always so clear cut that the downhill skier/boarder should have the right of way, in the same way as if a pedestrian leaps off the pavement and jumps in front of a bus, is it the bus driver's fault? |
They will tell you that the bus or car drivers are very different, but when you put the skis on, the crystal ball immediately lights up, helping expect and mitigate any erratic movement in front. If you still do not see the crystal ball, you just need to train harder.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
