 Poster: A snowHead
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| robs1 wrote: |
I thought it was only the UK government that couldn't organise a pee up in a brewery.
Surely it can't be that difficult to build a system that takes a photo and fingerprints and aligns them with a passport number |
No, it is just the UK. We would have just gone for some big bang "Everything is going electric on April 1st" approach...followed by things falling over under the load and massive delays everywhere.
What the EU are doing is the sensible way to release any IT system of this scale*, which is a phased rollout. By running both old and new systems in parallel if you experience issues as you ramp up load on the new one the old is still there so you can swap back/address the issues/try again.
Saying it's just "a system that takes a photo and fingerprints and aligns them with a passport number" suggests you don't understand the scale of the undertaking. What your actually dealing with is a huge, secured network with tens of thousands of endpoints (remember this has to be at _every_ EU external border, including all the road routes in the East, not just the airports and ferry terminals). And the machines aren't just taking a picture/fingerprints/passport number but sending that to a central database that's going to be getting thousands of simultanious requests every second, performing validations of the documents, cross-referencing that with your historical entry record (so it can flag 90/180 violations for example), and probably interfacing with other IT systems to check for EU arrest warrents, etc. And all of that in a few seconds to either let you through or hold you for interview.
In IT terms there probably hasn't been a bigger project globally for 10 years.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@robs1, Facebook have managed it, so why can’t Schengen?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It is a complex system that sits on top of the different systems that the 27 EU countries are using to manage their borders. It needs to communicate with those different systems and deal with huge amounts of data.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Mjit, Not wishing to detract from what you say, which seems a good summary of the scale of the project, I would have thought that at airports, at least, the system will have advanced warning of who to expect arriving - based on the API data that we provide in advance of our flight or on check-in. So, the various checks you mention could have been done while we were in flight and all that is necessary on arrival is for verification that the traveller is actually the passport holder. Obviously, if any of the checks through up issues then the traveller is diverted to the heavies.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Having reported that last Monday it was 5 mins to queue at GVA to enter and get manual stamping of passport, yesterday to leave it was 7 mins queue, get fingerprinted and photographed with passport stamped too.
Question is will we be able to use the automatic lines next time? But we will be driving via Portsmouth/Caen.
No problems with Ben's Bus transfer or Easyjet bag drop, possibly the quickest we have ever found GVA at a weekend.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| Daughter just flew into Turin. She said they'd turned off the fingerprint checks, but the queue was still massive, in her words. |
We went through Turin on Thursday. A bit of a queue, as they had five or six very helpful border officers instructing the Brits on how to use the machines, needing to have a photo taken and do the fingerprint scan. Of the four of us, it worked well for my daughter and me, who were able to then go up to the e-gate, insert passport and proceed for a cursory flick of the pages and stamp. For some reason, the fingerprint/ photo process seemed to not work for my wife and other daughter, who had to wait a further 15 mins in a second queue to see the border guards. So, a 50% strike rate - our wait was around 45 mins from landing to hitting the baggage hall. An hour for the other two. Slow, but not terribly painful. I've definitely had worse waits in the post-Brexit era.
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| DCG wrote: |
| @Mjit, Not wishing to detract from what you say, which seems a good summary of the scale of the project, I would have thought that at airports, at least, the system will have advanced warning of who to expect arriving - based on the API data that we provide in advance of our flight or on check-in. So, the various checks you mention could have been done while we were in flight and all that is necessary on arrival is for verification that the traveller is actually the passport holder. Obviously, if any of the checks through up issues then the traveller is diverted to the heavies. |
Is there a single International system for API data or does each nation have its own? Given that it is the airlines and Ferry companies that collect that information, do they each independently send it to a system for the target country, or do they just somehow screen it against a central / per-country list of "interesting" passports. Does that information somehow find it's way to the systems that the border agents use, or do people of interest get flagged somewhere else in the system, reviewed by a person and added to a list to intercept at the border? However it works I would bet that there are multiple different systems involved, probably several doing the same thing in different ways, probably administered by different bodies, under different jurisdictions (especially when you also consider outbound traffic where the API data could be going to a country outside the EU). If that is in any way connected to the EES system there's probably some intermediate system l(or chain of systems) inking them . It's equally likely that it is such an ungodly mess that it got put in the too hard bucket and descoped until the next phase of the project.
So although you might like to think that would make it simpler I suspect the likelihood is that if they have integrated that data it has made it very much more complex.
Unfortunately making systems that appear to do straightforward things smoothly tends to be very complex, not least because every legacy system you need to interface with has it's own technical debt.
And then try making it robust, reliable, acceptably secure etc....
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@Tubaski, I agree that integrating with umpteen national and carrier systems would be a big job and maybe over-kill, simply sending notification of the passport number to the destination airport/immigration authorities at the point of check-in ought to be much easie.
But maybe this is a bit off-topic as what we are really interested in is how long it will take us to get through on our next and future visits (in my case 13 days and counting...)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Does anyone know if it makes any difference if you have already been registered? Or do you have to queue to use the same terminals?
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When I went through Geneva the other week the registering at the terminals was not the rate-limiting-step. They had a dozen or more of them. The problem was the humans at the desks. Actually their problem was processing non-standard people.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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27 minutes from touching down at Geneva airport (BA at 14.55 on 23rd Dec) to getting to the baggage carousel! Minimal queue at immigration (just passengers from our plane perhaps), quick EES registration, then had fingerprints checked and passport stamped. I’m not optimistic about my next flight though which is EasyJet arriving late morning. Usually the queue is really long and really slow. Even today there was only one queue so EES registered or not you still had to wait your turn. I’d be interested to hear what it’s like around midday…
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@GillR, first ever post saying how efficient they are at Geneva, directly in contrast with all posts here ever. Working for the Swiss Government as an undercover member of their nudge unit no doubt! "Come to Switzerland, it's not that bad, GillR says so"
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It’s a bit random at GVA, 29th Nov landed 10:15 and was in baggage hall 20 mins later
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You know it makes sense.
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Working for the Swiss Tourist Board, very funny! I was really surprised how fast it was. I’d booked my transfer to the resort at 6pm expecting a 2 hour wait at immigration, but got through before 3.30pm. And my day just got better and better - I emailed Aravis Shuttle (to la Clusaz / le Grand Bornand) and they squeezed me onto the 4pm shuttle. Things can only go downhill from here (hopefully with skis on).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@GillR, indeed, downhill quickly.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well EES not in operation at Shuttle this morning. Disappointed really as hoped to get it all sorted while quiet.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Shame. Maybe the extra staff helping out on the EES machines are having a break for Xmas.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Any news about EES at Innsbruck, I've heard they only have 4 booths for registration. If that's correct the wait times will be horrendous come January.
The real problem is planning for onward travel, how are you supposed to book a train given the uncertaintty. I must admit I'm considering driving instead, can't see how flying is of any benefit now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
@GillR, first ever post saying how efficient they are at Geneva, directly in contrast with all posts here ever
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Not true. Several of us have reported that "it all depends".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Exactly. Anyone who has followed the twelve pages of posts on this topic will conclude that in almost all cases, the EES registration is irrelevant to the time taken to get through immigration. At airports, it still almost always depends on (a) the number of external-to-Schengen flights arriving around the same time and (b) the number of immigration officers in attendance.
As far as airports like Geneva go: it’s as it’s been for the last few years - there’s a degree of uncertainty over how long it’ll take because of other flight arrivals and staffing.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 26-12-25 20:44; edited 2 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It shouldn't be hard to get the right number of officers in attendance, its not like they dont know where planes are coming from .
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| Boris wrote: |
| Well EES not in operation at Shuttle this morning. Disappointed really as hoped to get it all sorted while quiet. |
Is it supposed to be starting for everyone? We're travelling on the 2nd of January and I have no idea what's going on. Their website still referencing 12th of October.
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No EES in Grenoble on Boxing Day so flew through in record time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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luanb, the Shuttle website states "The Entry/Exit System (EES) is overseen directly at the border by PAF (Police aux Frontières – the French border police) and is being introduced in phases, starting from 12th October. At LeShuttle, the initial rollout only applies only to Coach and Freight traffic. The process for car passengers will be implemented later in the year."
So, its all under the control of the French.
Like you, no one seems to know what's going on.
This ABTA site shows how EES is meant to be phased in.
Meantime we can but wait and see.
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Verona, Saturday 27th - 5 minutes to get to an EES kiosk, forced to have a photo taken and fingerprints scanned despite doing exactly the same thing 14 days previously in Munich, then a 10 minute queue for an eGate to scan my passport and check my photo to be sure I hadn't turned into a zombie in the queue, then a passport stamp done in considerable haste, and I was through.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I thought once you had been scanned etc. It would not need to be done again two weeks later..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@yorkshirelad, me too - but there was no queue for "I'm already registered" and the kiosk didn't say "I see you are already registered, please proceed directly to the gate".
At a guess, the Italian and German systems aren't both talking to a central register yet.
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| Alan1974 wrote: |
| Any news about EES at Innsbruck, I've heard they only have 4 booths for registration. If that's correct the wait times will be horrendous come January… The real problem is planning for onward travel |
A friend is travelling to Innsbruck on 6th Jan, so I can ask him for feedback if that helps?
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You know it makes sense.
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Zurich today. Arrived just after a flight from Dubai and a lufthahsa flight from US so that was a bad start with. Then they were sending people to the kiosk/machine until they were full then divering the queue into a zig-zag of boredom until the kiosks cleared. It appeared line rejoined the other but it didn't. It looped around to 4 immigration booths. Looked like about 10mins. I got diverted into the zig-zag. Slow but moving with 3-4x the number of people than in the other line. Took 40mins to get to the 4 booths serving it.
Spoke to one of the guys controlling the queue and he said that was as bad as its been. He thinks it'll get better after April but still issues until next Xmas.
Better than Geneva for PiPAU week and the bods in the booths were getting through as quick as they could AND they were friendly!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Innsbruck this morning was straight through. Presumably they don’t have the scanners. From landing to obergurgl in 2hrs.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm doing Valencia airport on Monday so see if my login details can be used mid January in Turin,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lyons this afternoon was fine. No fingerprints. Just stamped the passports. The traffic from there was another story. 5 hours to Tignes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Badbobby wrote: |
| Innsbruck this morning was straight through. Presumably they don’t have the scanners. From landing to obergurgl in 2hrs. |
Brilliant, thanks for that
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Frankfurt yesterday connecting through to Munich we all walked past the machines without being directed to use them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Any experiences arriving at Geneva terminal 2 (the shed). Only some Jet2 and TUI flights in the winter I think. Do they even have the booths there?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ManiaMuse wrote: |
| Any experiences arriving at Geneva terminal 2 (the shed). Only some Jet2 and TUI flights in the winter I think. Do they even have the booths there? |
Also keen to know as flying with Jet2 on 03/01/26. Will report back if no prior feedback.
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The main issue will be when it is fully implemented and then turned on everywhere. My understanding is that there are opt outs available when things get very busy but that the Commission, who are the architects of this, want every third country national to provide their biometrics every time that they travel. Whilst travel should be quicker on subsequent visits to kiosks my understanding is that you will still need to provide your details on each visit (although not biometrics).
So, until every EU point of entry has sufficient kiosks to deal with demand there will always be delays somewhere. However, small ports are unlikely to do this given the costs involved and will accept the "risk" of queues for a small proportion of the year knowing that the airlines will still fly there from the UK.
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I recall the next EES stage upping the numbers being scanned is 9 January.
Is there any evidence of those who have been EES'd being separated out, so possibly a shorter queue??
I'm flying Swiss to GVA 4 Jan - and was EES'd there 6 Dec.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I travelled to GVA yesterday bracing myself for a long queue (long queues were frequent before EES) I got a late Christmas present.
On landing no other planes were in sight and we went to one of the gates closest to the passport desks. I hustled along to try to beat fellow passengers to the queue. Except no queue at all. All booths open, EES machines off and zero minutes wait! Got into the baggage hall to find bags already going on to the carousel.
All up, from landing to exiting the baggage hall all took 23 minutes. I think that is all my GVA luck used for a long time to come.
Happy days.
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Travelled through Munich today. We were advised, rather than ordered, to use the pre registration booths. There was no queue for these kiosks. You still have to queue up as usual, which this afternoon took 28 minutes. I guess if everyone uses the kiosk it speeds up the passport stamping but people hadn't.
The policeman on the desk told me I wouldn't need to use the kiosks again for three months.
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FAQ
