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Taking teenagers skiing this winter?

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@7ncj, we managed to get our 12 year old jabbed about 7/8 weeks post positive test - they asked only if he'd be well in the last 28 days not 12 weeks, husband happened to have his booster booked so he took him with him to try and it worked. His 2nd jab is booked mid March so good for Easter skiing.
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ster wrote:
@MHskier, I read your first response where it sounds like you're wanting to accelerate the dosage in contravention of clinical decisions by those know better to "maximise the chance of this trip"? I think you and I know kids are at very low risk of having any adverse effect of getting infected with Covid. Why is it incredibly unfair for those at more risk to have a booster than kids at very low risk? I guess you're adhering to all the rules except this one?


Getting my kids vaccinated so the can travel on holiday is 100% my top priority, there is plenty of capacity to vaccinate them and they are not jumping any queue of more vulnerable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yep not jumping any queues. Just getting teens a completed vaccination course ahead of equally low risk fit 18 yr olds having their boosters.
Ster you come across as an back bottom.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 15-01-22 4:47; edited 1 time in total
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Haven’t figured out how to get around the obscenity filter? Just as well. I imagine you’ll get short shrift if you try to bilk the clinical recommendations just for a holiday. Good luck you two.
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ster wrote:
Haven’t figured out how to get around the obscenity filter? Just as well. I imagine you’ll get short shrift if you try to bilk the clinical recommendations just for a holiday. Good luck you two.


I think you should find another thread or bridge to hide under.
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dklemm wrote:
ster wrote:
@MHskier, I read your first response where it sounds like you're wanting to accelerate the dosage in contravention of clinical decisions by those know better to "maximise the chance of this trip"? I think you and I know kids are at very low risk of having any adverse effect of getting infected with Covid. Why is it incredibly unfair for those at more risk to have a booster than kids at very low risk? I guess you're adhering to all the rules except this one?


Getting my kids vaccinated so the can travel on holiday is 100% my top priority, there is plenty of capacity to vaccinate them and they are not jumping any queue of more vulnerable.


No plans in England to reduce gap between doses, my wife manages 3 vaccine centres so is fully up to date with info on this, if a centre gives a jab prior to this timeline they are in effect breaking the legal protocols that are in place
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andmelffion wrote:
dklemm wrote:
ster wrote:
@MHskier, I read your first response where it sounds like you're wanting to accelerate the dosage in contravention of clinical decisions by those know better to "maximise the chance of this trip"? I think you and I know kids are at very low risk of having any adverse effect of getting infected with Covid. Why is it incredibly unfair for those at more risk to have a booster than kids at very low risk? I guess you're adhering to all the rules except this one?


Getting my kids vaccinated so the can travel on holiday is 100% my top priority, there is plenty of capacity to vaccinate them and they are not jumping any queue of more vulnerable.


No plans in England to reduce gap between doses, my wife manages 3 vaccine centres so is fully up to date with info on this, if a centre gives a jab prior to this timeline they are in effect breaking the legal protocols that are in place


The 12 or 8 weeks has always been to allow more vulnerable to be prioritized.

JVCI didn't recommend the vaccine at all for healthy under 16s, it was only after political pressure did they do this.



This is a recent changes less the 24h ago, I expect others to follow.

"Those aged 12-17 for first or second dose only. For this age group book second dose appointment eight weeks after having the first dose
"

https://bcuhb.nhs.wales/covid-19/covid-19-vaccinations/covid-19-booster-programme-online-booking/
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
dklemm wrote:
andmelffion wrote:
dklemm wrote:
ster wrote:
@MHskier, I read your first response where it sounds like you're wanting to accelerate the dosage in contravention of clinical decisions by those know better to "maximise the chance of this trip"? I think you and I know kids are at very low risk of having any adverse effect of getting infected with Covid. Why is it incredibly unfair for those at more risk to have a booster than kids at very low risk? I guess you're adhering to all the rules except this one?


Getting my kids vaccinated so the can travel on holiday is 100% my top priority, there is plenty of capacity to vaccinate them and they are not jumping any queue of more vulnerable.


No plans in England to reduce gap between doses, my wife manages 3 vaccine centres so is fully up to date with info on this, if a centre gives a jab prior to this timeline they are in effect breaking the legal protocols that are in place


The 12 or 8 weeks has always been to allow more vulnerable to be

JVCI didn't recommend the vaccine at all for healthy under 16s, it was only after political pressure did they do this.



This is a recent changes less the 24h ago, I expect others to follow.

"Those aged 12-17 for first or second dose only. For this age group book second dose appointment eight weeks after having the first dose
"

https://bcuhb.nhs.wales/covid-19/covid-19-vaccinations/covid-19-booster-programme-online-booking/




You can book after 8 weeks have passed but won’t get an appointment until the 12th week, unless the child is clinically vulnerable or lives with someone who is clinically vulnerable.
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@always29, thanks. Let's see what happened today Eh oh! .

To the others whio are getting really quite exercised about all this, may I recommend the Daily Mail comments section, you may find more like-minded folk there.

The booking website states 12 weeks, both post infection and between vaccines. This is for both simplicity and to help manage demand when vaccine centres were very busy before Christmas.

Near us all vaccine centres have reduced hours / days since Christmas as demand is so low. They are sat waiting for people to come in.

The detailed guidance on vaccine suitability (available on gov.uk if you have some spare time - either the Green Book on Covid, or the Guidance for Covid Vaccinators) is clear 8 weeks is the safe gap and is recommended during periods of high rates and/or variants.
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As I've said in another thread....if my teenagers tested positive for Covid, I wouldn't log it on the NHS system so they can get their second jab once they've done their isolation period. They're getting them today anyway but once it became clear that they could not get a certificate confirming infection, we made that decision weeks ago. The original reasoning of saving jabs for more vulnerable no longer applies, and I don't see any medical problem. At least hundreds of thousands will have been jabbed soon after catching Covid already, not least because so many of that age are asymptomatic so didn't even know they had been infected in the first place!
I think a second reason was to spread out immunity for as long as possible-no need to add more antibodies by injection when you already have plenty from recent infection.
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Quote:

You can book after 8 weeks have passed but won’t get an appointment until the 12th week, unless the child is clinically vulnerable or lives with someone who is clinically vulnerable


There announcement was very clear. I expect more official info and others health boards to follow.

https://m.facebook.com/BetsiCadwaladr/?_se_imp=2MkWk8lYLpWqzxFun

"We’ve reduced the minimum second dose interval for those aged 12-17 from 12 to 8 weeks, in light of the high incidence of Omicron in our communities. This is consistent with advice from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation and has been agreed at a national level."
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
dklemm wrote:
Quote:

You can book after 8 weeks have passed but won’t get an appointment until the 12th week, unless the child is clinically vulnerable or lives with someone who is clinically vulnerable


There announcement was very clear. I expect more official info and others health boards to follow.

https://m.facebook.com/BetsiCadwaladr/?_se_imp=2MkWk8lYLpWqzxFun

"We’ve reduced the minimum second dose interval for those aged 12-17 from 12 to 8 weeks, in light of the high incidence of Omicron in our communities. This is consistent with advice from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation and has been agreed at a national level."


Maybe the case in Wales but no plans in England to change guidelines whatsoever as it currently stands from the 12 week gap.
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So do we all now think that it’s a no go to France for 12 plus year olds who are not fully vaccinated?
Are we the only country in the world that this applies to as we have our own “special” category!?
Can red list countries bring their unvaccinated U18’s??
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
L0ve2ski wrote:
So do we all now think that it’s a no go to France for 12 plus year olds who are not fully vaccinated?
Are we the only country in the world that this applies to as we have our own “special” category!?
Can red list countries bring their unvaccinated U18’s??


It looked that way when the guidance was first changed a day or so ago, but an exemption has now been added.

Unvaccinated / single vaccinated children (u18) can enter France as long as they are accompanied by fully vaccinated adults.

The remaining issue is Pass Santiere so they can use lifts, restaurants etc. So not a complete barrier but extra cost and hassle of getting daily tests.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
My view based on my interpretation:

They my can travel with vaccine parents.
They can ski with daily LFT done by pharmacy.

My personal opinion or bet is the skiing requirements will change before half term on 17-18th.

Plan A:
I currently have a holiday booked to Italy I'm about to cancel.

I will now drive to Andorra via France. Under 16 unvaccinated can ski there.

Plan B:

If I can get my child 2nd vaccinated in time I will still drive but to the French Alps instead.

I think it will be too late to adjust plan based on France rule changes
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7ncj wrote:
L0ve2ski wrote:
So do we all now think that it’s a no go to France for 12 plus year olds who are not fully vaccinated?
Are we the only country in the world that this applies to as we have our own “special” category!?
Can red list countries bring their unvaccinated U18’s??


It looked that way when the guidance was first changed a day or so ago, but an exemption has now been added.

Unvaccinated / single vaccinated children (u18) can enter France as long as they are accompanied by fully vaccinated adults.

The remaining issue is Pass Santiere so they can use lifts, restaurants etc. So not a complete barrier but extra cost and hassle of getting daily tests.



Doesn’t affect me fortunately as our daughter is double jabbed….but where have you got that info from as it’s not on the French diplomacy website which gives the current rules
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Simon Calders take on rules for France…

While it is excellent news that France has ended its futile and damaging four-week travel ban on visitors from the UK, joy is not exactly unconfined: the French have imposed rigorous conditions on the vaccination status of British travellers at the border, and even tighter rules if you actually want to enjoy yourself.

Families with children aged 12 or more are in the most difficult position in terms of meeting the “fully vaccinated” condition for entry as well as the requirements for the health pass. “Two jabs or you’re out” is the order of the day.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
andmelffion wrote:
7ncj wrote:
L0ve2ski wrote:
So do we all now think that it’s a no go to France for 12 plus year olds who are not fully vaccinated?
Are we the only country in the world that this applies to as we have our own “special” category!?
Can red list countries bring their unvaccinated U18’s??


It looked that way when the guidance was first changed a day or so ago, but an exemption has now been added.

Unvaccinated / single vaccinated children (u18) can enter France as long as they are accompanied by fully vaccinated adults.

The remaining issue is Pass Santiere so they can use lifts, restaurants etc. So not a complete barrier but extra cost and hassle of getting daily tests.



Doesn’t affect me fortunately as our daughter is double jabbed….but where have you got that info from as it’s not on the French diplomacy website which gives the current rules


https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel
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andmelffion wrote:
Simon Calders take on rules for France…

While it is excellent news that France has ended its futile and damaging four-week travel ban on visitors from the UK, joy is not exactly unconfined: the French have imposed rigorous conditions on the vaccination status of British travellers at the border, and even tighter rules if you actually want to enjoy yourself.

Families with children aged 12 or more are in the most difficult position in terms of meeting the “fully vaccinated” condition for entry as well as the requirements for the health pass. “Two jabs or you’re out” is the order of the day.


@andmelffion, He may have written it before the extra words were added or missed the point of detail.

If you see the link I posted above, click on travel to/ from UK..... it now states minors are afforded the same vaccination status as their parents (or words to that effect, I haven't got two screens on my phone)! In French law a minor is u18. This is why they have to add u12 to every bit of vaccine guidance where they need to differentiate between a minor and a minor u12.
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This is the important bit/ new words... copied and paste from above website

'The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated. '
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@7ncj,

I hope that’s the case. I saw that too but then I am on a euro disney forum and they have explicitly been told by the company they are travelling with that unvaccinated 12 years olds cannot enter France.

I think everyone is confused!
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@7ncj, yep and single jab and recovery from Covid affords vaccination status - according to the official entry requirements on the uk government website . Once the local pharmacies have been scoped for pass sanitaire by email then we will be sorted, or pop to a pharmacy for a test. It is looking good Eh oh!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
ster wrote:
@MHskier, I read your first response where it sounds like you're wanting to accelerate the dosage in contravention of clinical decisions by those know better to "maximise the chance of this trip"? I think you and I know kids are at very low risk of having any adverse effect of getting infected with Covid. Why is it incredibly unfair for those at more risk to have a booster than kids at very low risk? I guess you're adhering to all the rules except this one?


Jeez, chill out dude
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L0ve2ski wrote:
@7ncj,

I hope that’s the case. I saw that too but then I am on a euro disney forum and they have explicitly been told by the company they are travelling with that unvaccinated 12 years olds cannot enter France.

I think everyone is confused!


That wording was added specifically acknowledging UK are behind in terms of vaccination of u18s and the impact the rules would have on UK families, so I'm hopeful.

To be fair if I was on a Disney land Paris forum, because we had a family trip booked, I'd be looking for every reason not to go Very Happy. I'm half joking, we did go when the kids were a younger so have been there, done that. They decided it was the roller coasters they really liked so Europa-Park is our preferred theme park.
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French Embassy clarified rules and Simon Calder is still saying…he updated his Twitter with this 40 minutes ago..so to me that still means over 12’s need to be fully vaxxed to enter France


What about children?

The rules are expected to apply equally to everyone aged 12 and over. Under 12s need not be vaccinated nor take tests.

For proof of vaccination, 16-plus people should be able to access the NHS app. Children aged 12-15, or their parents, can apply online for an NHS Covid Pass letter, which is then posted out to them
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See section
4) I AM TRAVELLING WITH CHILDREN

12-17 only need a health pass so LFT is good enough

https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/service-information/coronavirus-and-eurostar-service/travel-requirements
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So it seems getting into France with 12 to 16's is possible now, with either 2 vax or 1 vax and a recovery, but you have to get the letter via 119.

The next problem is Pass Sanitaire. This needs a QR code. This is the bit that the NHS is not able to provide.

That means daily tests, and queues and cost.

Have I got this right?
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@chriskernow yes that’s my view if things too.
For me going to Italy where it’s same situation I think the holiday is only viable if we get junior his 2nd vacc and the qr coded letter from the nhs.
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You know it makes sense.
I'm sure the NHS letter for double vaccinated kids has a QR code so should be good for the pass sanitaire without needing testing in resort.
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MHskier wrote:
@chriskernow yes that’s my view if things too.
For me going to Italy where it’s same situation I think the holiday is only viable if we get junior his 2nd vacc and the qr coded letter from the nhs.


Yeah, my sons 2nd dose isn't possible until 4th March due to current 12 wk rule. Grrrr.
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ChrisKernow wrote:
So it seems getting into France with 12 to 16's is possible now, with either 2 vax or 1 vax and a recovery, but you have to get the letter via 119.

The next problem is Pass Sanitaire. This needs a QR code. This is the bit that the NHS is not able to provide.

That means daily tests, and queues and cost.

Have I got this right?
Like @paula says, if your teen is double jabbed, the NHS letter has the barcode which is then your PassSanitaire. So no testing needed. That's why you have to get the letter because u16 can't get a barcode from the app.

If 1x jab and recovery, then as I understand it you need to find a friendly pharmacy to issue an equivalence cert, otherwise you are into daily testing.
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wibble44 wrote:
ChrisKernow wrote:
So it seems getting into France with 12 to 16's is possible now, with either 2 vax or 1 vax and a recovery, but you have to get the letter via 119.

The next problem is Pass Sanitaire. This needs a QR code. This is the bit that the NHS is not able to provide.

That means daily tests, and queues and cost.

Have I got this right?
Like @paula says, if your teen is double jabbed, the NHS letter has the barcode which is then your PassSanitaire. So no testing needed. That's why you have to get the letter because u16 can't get a barcode from the app.


Yep, got that. But he won't be double jabbed until early March. He's had covid and one jab on 6th Dec.
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wibble44 wrote:
ChrisKernow wrote:
So it seems getting into France with 12 to 16's is possible now, with either 2 vax or 1 vax and a recovery, but you have to get the letter via 119.

The next problem is Pass Sanitaire. This needs a QR code. This is the bit that the NHS is not able to provide.

That means daily tests, and queues and cost.

Have I got this right?
Like @paula says, if your teen is double jabbed, the NHS letter has the barcode which is then your PassSanitaire. So no testing needed. That's why you have to get the letter because u16 can't get a barcode from the app.

If 1x jab and recovery, then as I understand it you need to find a friendly pharmacy to issue an equivalence cert, otherwise you are into daily testing.


When you say a friendly pharmacy - is that in France or UK? Smile
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I still think it’s not clear. Someone sources are saying u16s go by the vaccination status of their parents.
Also have 1 Covid jab and recovery 12 year old. Unsure who to prove it and if she will be let in. We are driving through France to ski in Italy at half term
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In France. Very Happy
Haven't done it but others on here have had success emailing various pharmacies in resort who have then agreed to issue a cert/barcode when they see the evidence (UK jab record and +ve PCR result)
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wibble44 wrote:
In France. Very Happy
Haven't done it but others on here have had success emailing various pharmacies in resort who have then agreed to issue a cert/barcode when they see the evidence (UK jab record and +ve PCR result)


Thanks dude, will give that a try
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Snowysarah wrote:
I still think it’s not clear. Someone sources are saying u16s go by the vaccination status of their parents.
Also have 1 Covid jab and recovery 12 year old. Unsure who to prove it and if she will be let in. We are driving through France to ski in Italy at half term
U16 go by parent vax status for French border control, but PassSanitaire needed for restos and spot checks for lifts.
If you are just driving to Italy, then I don't think you need to worry about PassSanitaire.
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ster wrote:
@MHskier, I read your first response where it sounds like you're wanting to accelerate the dosage in contravention of clinical decisions by those know better to "maximise the chance of this trip"? I think you and I know kids are at very low risk of having any adverse effect of getting infected with Covid. Why is it incredibly unfair for those at more risk to have a booster than kids at very low risk? I guess you're adhering to all the rules except this one?


It is indeed eminently sensible that those more at risk get jabbed up first and of course that is what has happened.

The incredibly unfair bit, is that as we speak at this very moment, adult Brits are already flying/driving south (people steam rollered on to Eurotunnel at the crack of dawn yesterday morning as soon as France lifted its restrictions), yet kids who are at extremely low risk of problems when infected (and whom have mostly already had it) and tend to bounce through it largely like a common cold, and who have missed key years of their school lives to "protect" said older adults, are still barred or severely restricted from making that very same journey that their "protected" older counterparts are able to, because they can't get their jabs in time. So kids who have stood aside to protect the older generations get another kick in the cajones for very little good reason, whilst adults merrily go about their business.

The reality is, despite the negligible risk to kids that you correctly mention, almost all governments are treating them as adults and insisting they have their full two doses, when most are not or have only very recently become eligible to have said two doses.
Also worth noting the risk to kids from having their jabs is extremely low, and problems, even at 4 weeks post infection (as it originally was) are exceptionally rare.

On one hand governments are saying kids/teenagers are lower risk so should be vaccinated much later and much slower, yet on the other hand they are restricting their travel suggesting they believe they represent a risk. Well, which is it ?
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Snowysarah wrote:
I still think it’s not clear. Someone sources are saying u16s go by the vaccination status of their parents.
Also have 1 Covid jab and recovery 12 year old. Unsure who to prove it and if she will be let in. We are driving through France to ski in Italy at half term


The jury is still out on traveling with vaccinated parents.

For skiing Italy most places are super green pass, only fully vaccinated 12+. No UK paper work accepted.
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andmelffion wrote:
dklemm wrote:
ster wrote:
@MHskier, I read your first response where it sounds like you're wanting to accelerate the dosage in contravention of clinical decisions by those know better to "maximise the chance of this trip"? I think you and I know kids are at very low risk of having any adverse effect of getting infected with Covid. Why is it incredibly unfair for those at more risk to have a booster than kids at very low risk? I guess you're adhering to all the rules except this one?


Getting my kids vaccinated so the can travel on holiday is 100% my top priority, there is plenty of capacity to vaccinate them and they are not jumping any queue of more vulnerable.


No plans in England to reduce gap between doses, my wife manages 3 vaccine centres so is fully up to date with info on this, if a centre gives a jab prior to this timeline they are in effect breaking the legal protocols that are in place


Utter non-sense, there is no "legal protocol" related to vaccination. That is simply made up. JCVI advises a gap of between 8 and 12 weeks, so far the English government has chosen to advise heath authorities to stick to a 12 week gap for 12-17 year olds with some exceptions where 8 week gap is advised for vulnerable (but also for "essential travel"). There is no legal basis for this and the vaccine has all the necessary approvals to be given after 8 weeks. Any clinician, including the head vaccinator at a vaccination centre, can over-ride the current advice and authorise a vaccine after 8 weeks as that is within both the JCVI advice and the MHRA authorisation. Clearly some health authorities and vaccination centres are CHOOSING to state is some sort of legal protocol, but that does not make it true. I am shocked that anyone who manages several vaccination centres would not understand all of this.
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