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Ski touring for wallies

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
swskier wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
Intrigued by the Chinese mega lamp chat I purchased this monster for £20.89 that has just arrived


Suspect 90000 Lumens may be a bit of an exaggeration but it sure is bright!


How have you found it? I bought something similar for dog walking, and it stays super bright for about 20 mintues then fades, and the battery life is really only 3 or 4 hours or so, despite claiming 7-8.


Haven’t used it in anger yet. Will gets it’s first outing next week...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Attended one if these and it was excellent. Someone asked me to post up if there was another one so here you are. Timely with the crazy snowpack we’ve got right now


https://fb.me/e/JJe9mSoH
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Not sure if this FB-link will work here: https://fb.watch/30qoTa3SWA/
Marginally quicker than the ski-tourers. Wouldn’t like to meet this guy on the way down...
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Superb, thanks a lot!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Grinning, I nearly gave up at first but when he left his mate in the bath tub and continued up that was brilliant footage along with the drone filming!.

Descent might be interesting Laughing
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Grinning wrote:
Not sure if this FB-link will work here: https://fb.watch/30qoTa3SWA/
Marginally quicker than the ski-tourers. Wouldn’t like to meet this guy on the way down...


Love it!
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
He left his contraption at the top? Not very practical Puzzled
The video is funny though
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
BobinCH wrote:
Grinning wrote:
Not sure if this FB-link will work here: https://fb.watch/30qoTa3SWA/
Marginally quicker than the ski-tourers. Wouldn’t like to meet this guy on the way down...

Love it!

Would pay to see him attempt the first kick-turn as the pitch ramps up...
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.

http://youtube.com/v/-fj7gi1VHaw
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Reminder this is on tonight...



http://youtube.com/v/ckGT0Mhmjg0
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@BobinCH, indeed, it was worth watching IMV
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Interesting thread. Relevant for me as I ventured on touring skis for the first time a couple of weeks ago, on a two day course run by the Mammut Alpine School in Andermatt. (Got to love their slogan “IT'S WINTER - GET OUT!”.)

In summary I had moments of pure fear and near total exhaustion which was of course what I went for, but maybe a bit too much at some times.

I’d appreciate advice/comments from you experienced tourers on a couple of things to help me decide on how to take it further.
Technique – uphill : Was pleased I had the stamina to handle it but somewhat distressed at my inability to master the kick turn which became a real problem going from Oberalppass 650m up towards the Pazolastock (but not all the way up to the peak).

Although I was OK mentally about doing what seemed like a pliee on a precipice, the physical part was the problem. I just couldn’t twist my legs round far enough. Not even without skis at home later when I tried. As I was able to do the kick turn on piste 30 years ago when I learnt skiing at the age of 30, I put this down to the body not working as well as it used to, like a few other things I won’t mention. Are there exercises to help with hip flexibility or will I have to do yoga?

Technique – downhill: I didn’t notice anything different to the off-piste I have done. Maybe the boots felt a little looser than normal. As we descended through the col below the Pazolastock I did an enormous faceplant on the first turn but a soft landing and no skis lost meant I could get going again quite easily.

Equipment: The guide said if we had a plastic avalanche shovel we should throw it away as it is useless. So I did and bought the magnificent Mammut shovel since there was a discount with the course.
He also said telescopic poles were unnecessary which surprised me. What do you think? I had thought you got an advantage having a shorter uphill one shorter when climbing.

I rented the Mammut airbag rucksack and liked its design with a separate section for shovel and probes, and a neat bit of webbing you could pull out to attach a helmet to the back for when you climb with a hat on. Thought about buying one but CHF 800 is a bit steep. I know anything is cheap compared to your life, but do most tourers use airbags? I think there some cases not so long ago where skiers deployed airbags but still died. Probably another topic in snowheads dedicated just for this if I did but look.

I also rented a Mammut Goretext jacket which was jolly good combined with my softshell underneath. Had nice deep pockets for jelly babies etc. Thought about buying that too, and again put off by price also about CHF 800. Any tips for alternative jackets? Seems something quite light and breathable needed for the way up that still keeps you warm on the way down. One of those puffy jacket things?

On the IT side the guide made these recommendations which I thought were good, if you recommend any others let me know:
Apps: Rega, White Risk, meteoblue
Web: skitourenguru.ch …which shows Hospental to Winterhorn route we did part of on Day 1 and the Oberalppass to Andermatt tour we did most of on Day 2, diverting at Schöni to ski down the pass street the rest of the way.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Congrats to@skinomad, for taking the plunge. Andermatt, great place to commence a touring journey.
If you are living in Switzerland join SAC, providing it's a an active section you could be out each and every weekend. Generally folk will help you out in all aspects of touring, they may even do training sessions which can be helpful.
Don't get hung up with the kickturn, it will come with practice!!!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thank you for the encouraging words Rogerdodger and the tip about the Swiss Alpine Club. I am a SAC member already so will check the calendar they sent me for 2021. The guide was a bit dismissive of the SAC's evaluation of avalanche risk but I think that was a bit of a professional versus amateur thing. I have some touring kit already, but need to buy a fair bit more: skins, crampons, touring boots, telescopic poles (maybe), possibly better rucksack and better jacket. This may take some time as I am currently still feeling the financial pain of buying two daughters their boots and skis recently. Wife I realised rather belatedly that at the age of 21 and 25 they have probably stopped growing and so we don't need to rent their stuff any more.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
skinomad wrote:


I rented the Mammut airbag rucksack and liked its design with a separate section for shovel and probes, and a neat bit of webbing you could pull out to attach a helmet to the back for when you climb with a hat on. Thought about buying one but CHF 800 is a bit steep. I know anything is cheap compared to your life, but do most tourers use airbags? I think there some cases not so long ago where skiers deployed airbags but still died. Probably another topic in snowheads dedicated just for this if I did but look.

I also rented a Mammut Goretext jacket which was jolly good combined with my softshell underneath. Had nice deep pockets for jelly babies etc. Thought about buying that too, and again put off by price also about CHF 800. Any tips for alternative jackets? Seems something quite light and breathable needed for the way up that still keeps you warm on the way down. One of those puffy jacket things?


I take my airbag touring if it’s to high alpine terrain. Nit for messing about in the valleys / low risk stuff. If you’re an occasional user you might be able to pick up a lightly used one 2nd hand to save a few bob.

For the jackets this brand « Elevenate » is Mammut quality gear heavily discounted. I use the stretch trousers and puffa for the down. Post up if you see something you like the look of and people here will advise you

https://www.sportpursuit.com/sales/elevenate-jan21?p=1

Eg Ski pants
https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/1972331

Puffa for the down
https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/2165474

Shell - sizing runs large on these
https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/1972227


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sat 23-01-21 12:58; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
on kick turns I'm 54 and can't get right around so each foot is facing the other direction, there are ways to still do a less perfect kick turn that have worked for me!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@skinomad, loads of kick-turn videos out there.

These are quite good as demonstrated by guides and I was there and filmed them Laughing


http://youtube.com/v/NclzmaapS8w

Steeper terrain


http://youtube.com/v/7p9LygCIHqA

And then my own interpretation, but like many I have trouble on one side getting the ski round, so I find a practice warm up slide opens the hip up and is easier to then get the ski round 43secs in and 1:10 for the second one


http://youtube.com/v/M_OTZoo3Meo
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thanks to all for the tips to buy clothes from Elevenate looks a great place to get stuff, knowing a less than perfect kick turn is OK, and the youtube videos which I look forward to watching!
ski holidays
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Mid-week altitude night touring back on since all the snow melted in our local spots Crying or Very sad
The boys are ramping it up on the equipment - split boards and Movement weight weenies infiltrating the heavy rigs Shocked






Pisteur wasn’t happy with us tearing up his freshly prepared corduroy!

http://youtube.com/v/RTL293phbHA
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Great pics looking back down into the valley and at least it will keep you touring fit until more snow comes.
Can't quite work out why one tourer has a brake light on his head though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
DB wrote:
Great pics looking back down into the valley and at least it will keep you touring fit until more snow comes.
Can't quite work out why one tourer has a brake light on his head though.


That is a great question to which I don’t think there is an answer... a bit like the question as to why would you go touring in the rain


And why do the Xenic’s brakes now stick so when they inevitably prerelease at some future moment the ski will go careering down the hill before the brake engages. Truly the worst binding I have ever used Skullie
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
BobinCH wrote:
DB wrote:
Great pics looking back down into the valley and at least it will keep you touring fit until more snow comes.
Can't quite work out why one tourer has a brake light on his head though.


That is a great question to which I don’t think there is an answer... a bit like the question as to why would you go touring in the rain


A speed sensing brake light (at the back of the helmet) could be fun on the downhill.


BobinCH wrote:
And why do the Xenic’s brakes now stick so when they inevitably prerelease at some future moment the ski will go careering down the hill before the brake engages. Truly the worst binding I have ever used Skullie


That's called a "special feature" wink but hey thanks, you really helped me dodge a bullet with the Xenics (is this what a certain boot fitter means when he talks about cheap plastic cr@p?)
The main thing is that you look rad, with those glasses and that hat you nailed it.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Taking advantage of being out of contract, Lewis Hamilton goes split-boarding: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1391468/Lewis-Hamilton-contract-Mercedes-George-Russell-Eddie-Jordan
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
DB wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
DB wrote:
Great pics looking back down into the valley and at least it will keep you touring fit until more snow comes.
Can't quite work out why one tourer has a brake light on his head though.


That is a great question to which I don’t think there is an answer... a bit like the question as to why would you go touring in the rain


A speed sensing brake light (at the back of the helmet) could be fun on the downhill.


BobinCH wrote:
And why do the Xenic’s brakes now stick so when they inevitably prerelease at some future moment the ski will go careering down the hill before the brake engages. Truly the worst binding I have ever used Skullie


That's called a "special feature" wink but hey thanks, you really helped me dodge a bullet with the Xenics (is this what a certain boot fitter means when he talks about cheap plastic cr@p?)
The main thing is that you look rad, with those glasses and that hat you nailed it.


Fortunately we have @weathercam who usually identifies DIY solutions to the Xenics features!

Ps My fashion adviser appreciates your comments Very Happy
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Going back up the page to the uphill kick turns: I was interested to see in the Erickson video that he didn't get his skis anywhere near parallel but instead deliberately forced the heel of the upper ski into the snow so it went under the lower ski. Good tip that, as an alternative to bear in mind, if the snow allows. Too often if you are struggling a tiny bit of the heel ends up on top of the lower ski, which makes the last phase impossible.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 7-02-21 23:44; edited 1 time in total
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Isn't the idea of the red light that it doesn't affect your night vision, allowing you to see more of your surroundings than just a pool of white light and blackness beyond. Also it doesn't blind everyone else when you look in their direction.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Anyone using ATK Freeraider 14's or Raider 12's.
As far as I can tell the only main difference between the two is the higher binding release rating? (8-14 vs 5-12)
https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2020-2021-atk-raider-12-majesty-r12

https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodotto/bindings/free-touring-en/fr14-en/

Do Dynafit crampons fit in ATK bindings?

Does the freeride spacers make much of a difference and are they mounted permanently to the ski?

What sort of delta/ramp angle do ATK's have?
Looks to be high in this table but not sure if the table is up-to-date/accurate.

https://www.wildsnow.com/10733/get-up-rise-up-stand-up-for-your-ramp/
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
With the telescopic poles question, putting some hockey tape around the Alu pole under the grip is what the locals do here. I bought telescopic ones with a long grip built on and I only ever use the long grip.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DB, I'm an ATK dealer.

Yes, the Freeraider 14 (8-14 din) is the same as the Raider 12 (5-14 din) apart from the din range. For next season there will also be a Freeraider 16 (9-16) din version.

Yes, the AL09 Freeride Spacer noticeably increases power transmission. It mounts in to a recess under the heel binding and has brackets that locate around the front mounting screws - so it's not screwed to the ski separately from the heel but is is permanent in that you'd have to remove the heel to remove it - unless you mount the heel with QK inserts in which case it's a doddle to remove. Note that AL09 Freeride Spacer is included in with the price for the Freeraider 14 and next seasons Freeraider 16. The AL09 Freeride Spacer is available as an accessory for the Raider 12 and the C-Raider 12. Due to a quirk in the ATK pricing structure it's currently actually cheaper to buy a Freeraider 14 with the spacer included than to buy the Raider 12 plus spacer as an extra. So if you're skiing on 8 or more din the better value is the Freeraider 14. I don't know if that quirk will be rectified for 21/22.

If you're looking at the Raider 12 then buy the C-Raider 12 instead as it's lighter and costs less.

ATK delta's vary across the model range but the Freeraiders/C-Raider have a theoretical delta of 11.5mm but that is of course boot specific. I've been working with ATK to reduce Freeraider 14/Raider 12 delta to 7.5mm from next season and have just received the nod on that. Not sure if the C-Raider will change but if not then they'll have a 4mm shim/longer screws available. And the shims can also be used under the 14/16's to reduce their delta further. Or I can manufacture sk=hims/screws in any thickness. I'm also working with ATK on a 'cover' that will allow the brakes to be removed but not leave a void that acts as a snow/ice trap that will also be available.

Apart from the race/skimo models, all of the ATK range accept any crampon with a Dynafit type fitting.

If you need any further info just holler.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@spyderjon,

Many thanks.
I see the C-Raider doesn't have the Up-hill Hardness Variator but doubt this makes much difference.
The FR 14 will probably be overkill as my binding release is normally set around 8. (I'm not that heavy)
For the same BSL is there a mounting conflict with the old Radical 1? The new boots BSL will probably be 6 to 16mm longer as the TLT6's that I have at the moment are really short.
Need to sort out new touring boots first to determine BSL and then I will get back to you regarding skis and bindings.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@DB, the UHV is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The adjustable tension only works on the up and not the down. If the tech inserts in your boots are that knackered that there's a risk of popping a ski on the way up then do you really want to ski down in those boots? Shocked
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@spyderjon,
Yep suspected it was a gimmick, thanks for confirming.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Isn't the idea of the red light that it doesn't affect your night vision, allowing you to see more of your surroundings than just a pool of white light and blackness beyond

That sounds plausible - the lights over navigation tables on boats always used to be red. Back in the day when one was poring over a paper chart.
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pam w wrote:
Quote:

Isn't the idea of the red light that it doesn't affect your night vision, allowing you to see more of your surroundings than just a pool of white light and blackness beyond

That sounds plausible - the lights over navigation tables on boats always used to be red. Back in the day when one was poring over a paper chart.


I thnk that's right, a quick google search reveals that submarine staff use red light at night so they can read a map but then look out the periscope without having to let their eyes adjust.
Can see the point on a moonlight skitour where you ski down in just the moonlight. Nowadays the headlamps automatically adjust the brightness to prevent/reduce snow glare and it's rare you can ski down easily without a headtorch.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Wrong turn almost cost them a nasty extra climb from La Tzoumaz Skullie

http://youtube.com/v/VHSky69dlp8

Strong team
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DB wrote:
@spyderjon,

Many thanks.
I see the C-Raider doesn't have the Up-hill Hardness Variator but doubt this makes much difference.
The FR 14 will probably be overkill as my binding release is normally set around 8. (I'm not that heavy)
For the same BSL is there a mounting conflict with the old Radical 1? The new boots BSL will probably be 6 to 16mm longer as the TLT6's that I have at the moment are really short.
Need to sort out new touring boots first to determine BSL and then I will get back to you regarding skis and bindings.

DB, for the same bsl the Rad 1's conflict with the majority of tech bindings on the market, and it does with the all the Raider models at both the toe and the heel. A possible solution will be dependent upon the specific sole length of your new boots.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
spyderjon wrote:
for the same bsl the Rad 1's conflict with the majority of tech bindings on the market, and it does with the all the Raider models at both the toe and the heel. A possible solution will be dependent upon the specific sole length of your new boots.


Thanks, planning to get new skis anyway.
One pair of touring skis have been drilled twice already so will probably leave the Rad 1 bindings on them and use them as rock skis with my old touring boots.
If the holes clash on the other pair of existing touring skis I might just put some alpine or shift bindings on them if I can.
Now the shops are open I need to get myself down the sports shops and do some shell checks.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

but somewhat distressed at my inability to master the kick turn


Don't beat yourself up. Practice does make perfect, but I've seen even the best get tangled up and make a complete mess of it from time to time. There is a saying that generally if a kickturn is needed the skin track is too steep (I will leave others tomdecide how accurate that is!). Most of the time you can get by with just shuffling round (less efficient and not particularly pretty but not the end of the world).

Quote:

do most tourers use airbags?


I bought one because I needed a backpack for touring anyway and figured it was better to bite the bullet than end up buying a second bag with airbag at a later date. There is some suggestion that having an airbag leads to increased risk taking. I'm torn, on one hand I generally think you don't need one as cautious sensible decision making is enough. On the other hand mistakes can happen, maybe you misjudge something and it saves your life. Guess it depends a lot of what kind of terrain and conditions you plan to tour in and if you are more two taking or adverse.

Quote:

Any tips for alternative jackets? Seems something quite light and breathable needed for the way up that still keeps you warm on the way down. One of those puffy jacket things?


Bit of a personal preference as some run hot/cold and again conditions your going to be touring in play a role. You probably won't be doing much touring in storms so breathability becomes more of an issue than waterproof.

For jackets the biggest thing is zips. While goretex is more breathable than other materials many of us find it still gets far too hot and sweaty touring up hill. I very rarely wear a jacket on the uphill though, I find once you get moving you can generate plenty of heat YMMV. Usually just a base layer is enough and have a light down (puffy) jacket for colder days which adds a bit of warmth and packs down nice and small if I take it off (I use a decathlon one which is about £40 and has pretty much the same specs as rabs £200+ version). Jacket usually just comes out the bag for transition and downhill. Any shell will do.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Getting up to 700m/h on a 1 hour relatively steep track. Didn’t manage to lose any weight but with a couple of outings per week able to push gradually harder and for longer.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Impressive average heart rate, I usually find I’m limited by my heart rate rather than my legs. My problem is living at 35m all year then trying to ski tour at 1800-3400m, with only a week of acclimatisation Very Happy
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