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Biting the bullet on tour bindings

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
davidof wrote:
clarky999 wrote:
davidof wrote:
the F10 is cheap, couple of hundred euros new, if you are not doing serious touring seems like the ideal solution for someone largely on piste.

The Shift looks like a heavy pin binding, I think Salomon have missed the point somewhat. Almost the same weight as the F10.


Sorry, but I think it’s you who had missed the point there: the goal with the Shift was exactly to make a heavy duty pin binding that is still vastly more efficient uphill than the F10 etc - IME this makes more difference than the pure weight - yet still skis at least as well on the descent. I’ll happily skin 1500 vert with Shifts (and freeride boots FWIW); I wouldn’t want to do half that on frame bindings as they’re just too much of a slog.


The OP wants to do a few hundred meters vert at most but largely wants to ski on piste. I'm responding to the brief. Leave the ad hominem out please it is very tiring all the time on snowheads.


What ad hom Puzzled

I'm also only trying to answer what the OP asked. The tech has moved on IMO and experience the only use case for frame bindings like the F10 is as a get out of jail card on powder day skis to avoid bootpacking in/out of something in deep snow. Lifting the weight of the whole frame is just too inefficient.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
clarky999 wrote:


What ad hom Puzzled

I'm also only trying to answer what the OP asked. The tech has moved on IMO and experience the only use case for frame bindings like the F10 is as a get out of jail card on powder day skis to avoid bootpacking in/out of something in deep snow. Lifting the weight of the whole frame is just too inefficient.


Indeed, I missed that too. Anyhow, I would agree with you (and no, that's not intended as an insult to anyone else, I am just agreeing wink ).
I am too lazy for big tours, and like the way alpine bindings work, so swapped Dukes for Shifts. For me, they are much better, not just the weight reduction, but pivoting on the toes rather than the frame feels much better. Both are rock solid for the downhill.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
coddlesangers wrote:
Op most certainly does not want to ski mostly on piste ! Vert in the original brief was 600-700 ish and a mixed use 80/20. Can confirm that the setup worked great today, all the gubbins did what they were supposed to do. First spin with them was enjoyable, although I did have to make 1 rookie error, which in my case was trying to ski back down with the skins still on... Rather too worried about getting the bindings right...doh. The shifts are easy to use, obviously I have nothing to compare them to from a touring perspective. Conditions today were an excellent test as we had powder, some hard piste, and it was snowing heavily as I was putting them into and out of walk mode. The atomic hawk boots are fabulous, very very responsive in downhill mode, and feel pretty light to me. The weight of the kit is not a particularly limiting factor I think, certainly didn't stop me from enjoying my tiny starter tour (roughly 2km, 200m up)


Glad the kit hit the mark! Onwards and upwards from here!!!
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skimottaret wrote:
@coddlesangers, As far as boots go I just bought a pair of Lange XT140 Pro with interchangeable grip walk/alpine soles. Haven't skied em yet but feel great and get fab reviews. First pair of boots I have ever had that fit without any work needing to them.

EDIT : just saw you have already bought boots , sorry...


This is the boot Jeremie Heitz is skiing at Mach speed on. Must be a serious piece of kit. If only I could fit my foot into a 97mm last boot!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
BobinCH wrote:
coddlesangers wrote:
Op most certainly does not want to ski mostly on piste ! Vert in the original brief was 600-700 ish and a mixed use 80/20. Can confirm that the setup worked great today, all the gubbins did what they were supposed to do. First spin with them was enjoyable, although I did have to make 1 rookie error, which in my case was trying to ski back down with the skins still on... Rather too worried about getting the bindings right...doh. The shifts are easy to use, obviously I have nothing to compare them to from a touring perspective. Conditions today were an excellent test as we had powder, some hard piste, and it was snowing heavily as I was putting them into and out of walk mode. The atomic hawk boots are fabulous, very very responsive in downhill mode, and feel pretty light to me. The weight of the kit is not a particularly limiting factor I think, certainly didn't stop me from enjoying my tiny starter tour (roughly 2km, 200m up)


Glad the kit hit the mark! Onwards and upwards from here!!!


First big test tonight, doing a night rando with a buddy up La Dole from La Givrine. Its not particularly strenuous up, think its about 500m, but it will be skiing back down by the light of the moon and my Petzel......fingers crossed I dont smack myself into a tree. Not at all worried about the up now, rather more concerned about the down in the dark, but sure....why not.
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@BobinCH, they do a 130 in a 100mm last as well, I have super skinny feet and usually in 95 for plug boots but the 97 with Zipfits were spot on. worth noting that the 140 uses a different shell material to achieve the stiffness and it moulded incredibly well for me...

one major downside to all these touring boots imo is the lack of cuff adjustment. The 140's seemed perfect until we had to stick old bits of shims to get the cuff in the right place Sad
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@skimottaret, how is walking with these boots? I had Rossi Alltrack Elite 130 LT some 2 years ago (which was previous version of this one), but after few tours, I just gave up. They were surprisingly good for skiing, and as my normal ski boots are Rossi Hero WC boots in ZE stiffness, so they really are good then, but for going up, they were, well... not so great Smile I ended up with something else then, and a bit of paint job to make everyone happy Very Happy But new ones are suppose to be better for hiking up. Are they really?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@primoz, just got them this summer and haven't managed to ski in them yet as everything is closed ! I just bought some alpine soles so will be able to use them with my race bindings and will give them a go downhill but all my touring stuff is in France so can't try out going up.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@skimottaret, I'm pretty sure for skiing they will be good. Not really as good as race boots, but surprisingly good, so for that I'm pretty sure they will be more then fine Smile With old model, walking was the problem for me, but they should change that, and that's why I asked. Anyway once you will try them uphill, if you remember, let me know how they are Smile
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@coddlesangers, moonlit skiing is magical. You might find it better without the headtorch!

(Is it a full moon?)


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Tue 19-01-21 18:47; edited 1 time in total
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@primoz, I own the XT130s from 4 years ago when they first appeared (the very green ones). The RoM isn't bad at all (40 deg+) and I believe the new ones push that a bit further. It doesn't sound much compared to the Hawx et al but for me, the fit is exceptional and being fairly fit I've had no problems touring/climbing in them for a full week of ski mountaineering (albeit at sea level) and plenty of shorter escapades at altitude.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
under a new name wrote:
@coddlesangers, moonlit skiing is magical. You might find it better without the headtorch!

(Is it a full moon?)


Moon wasn't quite full but it was a gorgeous night. I struggled in the steep pitches, but that wasn't the fault of any if the gear, I was trying to take the same line as the guys I was with, should have swallowed my pride and gone more sideways rather than trying to go straight up a 35deg slope!! Also took a tree branch in the face in the way down for my troubles but a fabulous experience. Just checked my HR monitor, 165bpm average over the hour and 40 mins moving time... Embarassed
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
under a new name wrote:
@coddlesangers, moonlit skiing is magical. You might find it better without the headtorch!

(Is it a full moon?)


I went moonlight skiing last night too - luckily there were a few chairlifts and some floodlights where I went snowHead
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@stuarth, if you haven’t tried it, it’s amazing how bright a full moon is, with snow reflectivity. Totally skiable.

@coddlesangers, well done, I’m jealous Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Folks a quick newbie question - accidentally brushed my skins off my shedding dog, one of the skins now looks like i painted it black. Any cheats for removing the dog hair or other assorted detritus that may get stuck to the glue either while transitioning or when drying them out? Looks rank!
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@coddlesangers,
This might help

http://youtube.com/v/n_8VKv7pNWg


https://offpistemag.com/climbing-skins-maintenance-and-renewal/


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 25-01-21 15:22; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Totally perfect, ty sir! Will give that a whirl later. Have all the necessary bits, thats fabulous.
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The skin sheets/hot iron trick works a treat
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
skimottaret wrote:
spyderjon wrote:
The Shift has killed off framed bindings which is why retailers are ditching left over stock at below cost and they now have zero resale value.


Im not sure about that. What about all the skiers with Alpine only boots that just want to do a bit of touring? My daughter has race boots and I would rather spend 200 on a set of frame bindings rather than having to fork out for both new bindings and pin boots..

Slightly annoying that I have a shift based touring setup in Meribel that she can't use because she has the "wrong" boots...


My prediction is that in due course most boots (or at least those likely to be used by people going off piste) will come with pin attachments and make that point moot. I would point to the boot conversion for the CAST binding to indicate that most boots could have pin inserts at minimal extra cost during manufacture. I think the combination of the Shift, Pindung and CAST all show the direction of travel and that frame bindings will have in the medium to long term a very small market share.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
My prediction is that in due course most boots (or at least those likely to be used by people going off piste) will come with pin attachments

This has become true in the Telemark world (even though it is such a minimalist sector), the development of franken-bindings leading to tele-tech bindings like Meidjo & TTS etc has resulted in tele-boots being manufactured with tech inserts
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Small thread bump to say that the touring bug has bitten in a sufficient manner for Mrs Coddlesangers to have somewhat reluctantly joined in..

Kitted her out with

Fischer ranger boots (115s)
Head Kore 93 (wimmins)
and of course
Salomon shifts on the basis that if I can do it, she can do it. Love these bindings, think they are a superb solution for a mixed use 1 ski quiver.

We'll be off for her maiden tour tonight.......divorce proceedings probably to be initiated tomorrow.
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