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need glove advice

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hey everyone,

First off, I have Reynaud's syndrome so my hands get very very cold.

I want to buy two different gloves. 1 should be a very warm mitt for skiing and descents for ski touring -basically aiming for very very warm and hopefully not too heavy (for skitouring).
Right now I'm looking at either a pair of
-Free the Powder mitts : https://www.freethepowder.com/collections/gloves or
-Hestra Expedition extreme mitts: https://en-gb.hestragloves.com/products/35161-100100-army-leather-extreme-black-black
- have any of you tried either of these? Or have other recommendations?

The second glove is a bit trickier. I want a fingered glove that is dexterous (ideally mobile enough to use a camera, attach a dog leash etc) but also warm. I want to use it for biking, maybe uphill ski touring (I also have a very thin pair of liners to use if this glove is too warm), maybe sometimes belaying, so I am looking for something durable. Wind resistance is a must. I am not worried about the gloves being too warm (my hands completely froze in thin gloves the other day even though it was only 4C. I know there is a dexterous / warmth tradeoff though.

I am not sure yet about waterproof - looks like it's hard to find a glove that ticks all the boxes. Another option is getting a thin waterproof shell for wet bike rides (or just wearing my old thin waterproof mittens then).

I am looking at:

Hestra Army Leather Terry 5 Finger: https://en-gb.hestragloves.com/products/30800-350100-army-leather-wool-terry-grey-black
(this seems like a nice warm option but not waterproof, happy to treat it with leather wax often though)

Hestra Ergo Grip Tactility Czone: https://en-gb.hestragloves.com/products/30850-100-ergo-grip-czone-tactility-short-black (looks durable bc of reinforcements, would be colder than the others so I might try to add a liner although not sure if it would fit)

Herstra Czone Bike: https://en-gb.hestragloves.com/products/39150-100-bike-czone-contact-black


Ski trab maximo: https://skimo.co/ski-trab-maximo-glove


Rab VR: https://rab.equipment/eu/vr-glove


Hestra also suggested the Hestra Czone Contact glove but I saw some bad reviews on that - apparently not very warm and not sure how durable it was either.

Thank you!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My Daughter has Reynauds and has tried all sorts of solutions, including Liners and very warm Mitts, like Hestra Army Leather Heli mitts and Black Diamond Mercury mitts (some of the warmest out there)....but the only thing that has given relief are the Blazewear Heated Glove Liners.

BTW. Welcome to the circus. snowHead


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 3-01-21 14:46; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hestra Three-finger Army Leather Heli mittens and Blaze heated glove liners. Only used that combo in the coldest temperatures as my hands feel like they are on fire if the temperatures are typical.
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@skiier1994, welcome to SnowHeads.
I'm not sure whether any of the hestra leather gloves will be dextrous enough to operate a camera. I have the Army Leather Patrol and whilst its a great glove, I usually end up pulling one off to fiddle with dials, buttons etc. I can manage most ski gear, zips etc (as long as they have long pull tabs).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thanks both! Rob, I have thought about battery powered gloves but want something I can take on a multi-day tour so wouldn't be able to recharge.
Mgrolf, that's really good to know! I guess camera is just a bonus, and zippers etc is the essential.
How is the Army Leather Patrol in terms of durability and water-proofness?

Thanks!
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skiier1994 wrote:
Thanks both! Rob, I have thought about battery powered gloves but want something I can take on a multi-day tour so wouldn't be able to recharge
Ah, that's a bit tricky. The battery packs are removable, but I doubt you'd want to carry a spare pack or two for every day of the tour.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
This may sound a little odd but look beyond skiing. Me and other half have picked up "ice-climbing" gloves from Joe Brown. Usually in a sale but would recommend good insulation and rugged construction.
Some years ago a friend found overgloves in Decathlon. A large mit that simply covers the glove you have on at the time. We invariably refer to them as oven gloves, the effect is similar to pulling something from the oven, they are extraordinary!
Not sure if Dec still do them but well worth checking.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
There is an old thread here, that may or may not be useful Toofy Grin

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=32488#777704
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@skiier1994,
Quote:

I have Reynaud's syndrome


Welcome to SHs. You have my sympathy. My wife has suffered for about 10+ ish years now, would not be able to ski without heated help and gets frozen fingers washing salad in warm water in summer. It is a very annoying thing.

Her take is that she totally needs heated liners and socks. Of which the best we have found (have not examined liners in a few years) are Blazewear glove liners and Lenz socks. Both because they heat the extremities. She has 3 (actually 4 but one set are about to collapse) sets of batteries for the gloves and 2 for the socks. God forbid that she asks me to sort her batteries and I forget (this generally no longer happens !!)

Take your point on the touring angle. Mrs U would not be able to do a multi day tour without electricity. End-of-story. But surely you can get some recharge in refuges? I mean, phones?

So Mrs U's set up is Hands: BW liners, Hestra Heli Pro Army (Mitts in winter, gloves in Spring), Feet: Lenz socks, Costco Murano socks, Boots.

If you can get round the leccy supply issue, the BW liners would allow use of finer gloves for dexterity. And allow weight optimisation.

Tricky. Good luck.
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Thanks everyone! I did have battery powered gloves a while back but the batteries have been having issues charging recently. I don't remember charging anything at the mountain refuges but don't want to have to rely on it..

The Joe's Brown shop was a good call, found even more gloves to add to the finger glove options. Anyone have any experience with these? Mostly mountain equiptment and OR

https://www.climbers-shop.com/11102870/products/extremities-mistaya-glove--grey.aspx

https://www.climbers-shop.com/11103032/products/mountain-equipment-cirque-glove--black.aspx

https://www.climbers-shop.com/11105676/products/outdoor-research-womens-ouray-ice-glove--black.aspx

https://www.climbers-shop.com/10941166/products/outdoor-research-womens-stormtracker-sensor-glove.aspx

https://www.climbers-shop.com/11103038/products/mountain-equipment-womens-g2-alpine-glove--black.aspx


And I found a good over-mitt (Although in my mind it is also now called oven-mitt) there too: https://www.climbers-shop.com/11105606/products/mountain-equipment-drilite-overmitt--black.aspx
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And thank you boredsurfin, checkin out the other thread now
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I use mitts, they're just warmer. Nothing I use for snowboarding or snowboard photography is suitable for biking (!) - that sounds like a bad compromise. I do have gloves (not mitts) for biking which work in all conditions, but I don't bike in minus 30 much although I do snow board it it - the requirements are different for me.

For photography, I doubt you can find stuff which allows you to use the controls. I use mitts, and anchor the mitts to the jacket so I can dump them fast. Then inside the liners (so that's 3 layers), I use some thin stuff which means my fingers are ok on the camera for about 30 seconds at a time.

I use gore text stuff which is practically waterproof unless you're snowboarding in the sort of conditions where it runs down from your neck to your fingers - you want different gloves for those those conditions.

I don't like Hestra myself - too much bling - but they're the most common gloves you'll find heli skiiers using.
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Thanks! Ok, I think I'll forget about the "dexterous enough for camera", seems like it's not realistic. That sounds like a good setup you have there.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
My take on Hestra gloves (I have 3 pair):

1. the chances of them fitting perfectly are better vs the competition, because they come in more sizes than everybody else, but
2. I don't think they are as warm as some competing gloves. I really like my Army Helis, but I wouldn't call them notably warm.

Until you find a workable solution for your hands, take a peek at the rest of your kit. Sometimes trading the shell for the down coat does the trick indirectly.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Scooter in Seattle, “ Sometimes trading the shell for the down coat does the trick indirectly.”

not if you really do experience Reynaud’s.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
under a new name wrote:
@Scooter in Seattle, “ Sometimes trading the shell for the down coat does the trick indirectly.”

not if you really do experience Reynaud’s.

Yup.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yep, I have good base layers and a good puffy for the core. Issue is that often my core is ok but my digits just have no bloodflow.


Scooter, which other Hestra gloves do you have? Do you happen to have the Army Leather Terry Wool or Ergo Grip Czone? Was thinking of those (not for the super cold skiing days but for multiuse)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I like my different Hestra gloves, I've worn out a few pairs,
They look great, but the certainly are not warm.

If you are going to Canada in January ... they will not be warm enough.
The answer is those hand wamer sachet things stick a couple in your pockets for those
really cold days.
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I used to have Hestra Army gloves - never really that impressed. Switched to Black Diamond Guide gloves - I think they are much better.
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@skiier1994, My wife suffers from Renaud's and uses the Blazewear liners. If you're sure they won't work for you the only other option is mittens that are not divided inside and the t-bag type sachets. That way you can hold the sachet in your fist inside the mitten, mittens that are divided inside only allow the sachet to heat the palm of your hand and not the fingers.

With Renaud's you need a source of warmth other than body heat.
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@under a new name, agreed. I didn't mean to trivialize Raynaud's. But for others its a quick and easy fix.

@skiier1994, welcome and as for the gloves: the Army Helis are white goatskin with a "o-zone" (maybe g-zone?) liner. Others are lighter weight, for spring. Guessing they are really for XC.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
"The second glove is a bit trickier. I want a fingered glove that is dexterous (ideally mobile enough to use a camera, attach a dog leash etc) but also warm. I want to use it for biking, maybe uphill ski touring (I also have a very thin pair of liners to use if this glove is too warm), maybe sometimes belaying, so I am looking for something durable. Wind resistance is a must. I am not worried about the gloves being too warm (my hands completely froze in thin gloves the other day even though it was only 4C. I know there is a dexterous / warmth tradeoff though."


For this one, consider a "Black Diamond Kingpin" as one that may fulfill. The skin is very supple but pretty resistant to moisture and seem very resistant to wear. It's the type of glove I like to use biking as the palm volume doesn't really compromise grip.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Some people have very good results from medication for Raynaud's. Might save some cash, it's pretty cheap stuff, some of my patients with Raynaud's take it for skiing / cold bike rides.

I have worn Hestra gloves in Canada in Jan for a long while. Seemed fine to me.

Agree with others insulation for something cold eg a vasospasming hand won't work. I'd give the liners a go.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Use 2 gloves. One glove is mad Toofy Grin
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@Timberwolf, Laughing
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I have some Hestras and some Free the powder. Hestra's are the older army gauntlet thing, still going well 20 years later, and the FTP are a spring weight glove, but will do me for all but the worst conditions, very well made INHO.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@motdoc, wife refuses to take Viagra ... rolling eyes
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@skiier1994, I've had my Army Leather Patrols for 2 seasons now, so 40-45 days' use. That includes a fair bit of carrying skis, more than the average week of ski holiday. There are a few superficial scratches on the leather, but nothing more than that. It looks as though I'll get at least another 5-6 years of use, and quite possibly more. Properly waxed, they're plenty waterproof enough for most skiing. They might struggle in rain, and they're not the gloves I reach for if I'm having a snowball fight with my daughter Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@skiier1994,

Hi. My wife and son both have Reynaud's and we've tried various things including electric heated systems (which neither got on with FWIW). We haven't tried any of the gloves you mention but what has worked is using chemical handwarmers and these
1. my wife has used dakine snowboarding mitts sometimes with a thin merino glove liner. Mitts really are better if you get on with them. A liner gives you a bit of protection when you need to take the mitt off to do something fiddly
2. my son just hates mitts but has found these a great compromise
https://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/soloist-finger-BD801696_cfg.html#cgid=snow-gloves&start=30
Mitts but with a separate finger for the forefinger. The finger gives a lot more dexterity than mitts and if it gets really cold then you can fit all the fingers in the mitt bit for extra warmth.
We find that the secret is to stop their hands from GETTING cold - its hard to recover when they ARE cold. They always carry activated handwarmers in their pockets if it is cold and if their fingers BEGIN to feel chilly we stop and stick the handwarmers in the mitts.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Oh and for ski touring I have recently got a pair of these cheap:
https://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/helio-three-in-one-gloves-BD801423_cfg.html#cgid=snow-gloves&start=44
They SEEM ideal but I haven't used them in anger yet so can't give you a review
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@skiier1994, on the lighter gloves, I used some Hestra Ergo Grip Active gloves for touring etc. Very dextrous but they got pretty knackered from a couple of 30m sections where I was lowering myself on the rope. I'd be a bit wary of buying that model again if rope work is expected. I have a couple of pairs of Hestra army leather gloves which are much harder wearing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Thank you everyone!

Going to go for the Free the Powder mitts and try those with some handwarmers for skiing.

Then I ordered Hestra ergo grip tactile (with czone) and Army Leather wool terry and bike czone. Going to try them all at home for warmth and dexterity tradeoff (curious if a thin liner can fit in the ergo grips) and then return two and keep one. I'll update on which one I choose (wish it was possible to wear them all outdoors for a day).

Although now that I read that the ergo grip get pretty knackered I'm not as keen on them since they arent warm either.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@skiier1994, ... I have Reynaud's and related longer term damage from frostbite. Yes, it's important to have gloves, but it's also important to try to recognise and beat the conditions which triggers the syndrome. By fooling your body that it is warm outside, you can avoid the response. Use a good buff around your neck all the time on the hill. This really stops airflow venting out of your jacket from your trunk, and it frequently is lowered CORE temperature which acts as the trigger. Layer up your core, and wear good full length thermals. Make sure your ski pole grips are not too small a diameter, since this causes you to over-grip and restrict blood flow to the hands. This is a big problem in winter cycling, and under recognised in skiing. Stay dry, so best possible outer shells or wicking outers (Paramo etc) since this also reduced the chilling which triggers the syndrome. Also make sure secondary conditions are diagnosed and controlled:

from https://www.webmd.com/arthritis/raynauds-phenomenon

Women are up to nine times more likely to get it than men are.
People of all ages can get Raynaud’s, but it usually starts showing up between ages 15 and 25.
People with secondary Raynaud’s tend to get it after 35.
People with illnesses like rheumatoid arthritis, scleroderma, and lupus are more likely to get secondary Reynaud’s.
People who use some medicines to treat cancer, migraines, or high blood pressure may be more likely to get Raynaud’s.
Also, people who have carpal tunnel syndrome or use vibrating tools like jackhammers may be more likely to get Raynaud’s.

Hey that last one is me....
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@valais2,
Quote:

By fooling your body that it is warm outside, you can avoid the response


This does not work for my wife.

She gets it washing salad in tepid water in summer at 34C
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UANN that's unfortunate, a very low trigger threshold re temperature gradient. It's absolutely true that the trigger works differently for different people - sometimes a temp level, sometimes a rate of cooling acting on the body. And sometimes my feet get triggered but not my fingers, and vice versa. For me it's something to do with my upper body, and really sealing my neck helps a very great deal in my case. This research paper emphasises that it is CHANGE in temp which can be a principal trigger.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221815416_Diagnosis_and_management_of_Raynaud%27s_phenomenon
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@valais2 thanks for the advice! Yes, I definitely noticed scarf/buff/hood/hat help a lot.

Interesting point about the change in temperature triggering it, I'll check that out! I get cold overall easily but sometimes the toes lose circulation even when my core feels warm..


@motdoc what is the Reynaud's medication called? I assume it's some sort of vasodilator, can you get that over the counter or does it need to be prescribed?

Thanks!
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