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Any brave families planning go to Switzerland this Christmas?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dravot wrote:


My wife also did the antibody test and was negative....we've been married a while but are not quite socially distanced. Make you wonder how you can share a house with someone and not pass on the virus, but possibly can in a queue, ski-lift or pub?


There have been plenty of cases of some individual's in a household getting infected and the others not. It might be that you, for whatever reason, dont pass on the virus, perhaps your immune system just reacted quickly in producing antibodies so you were never infectious, impossible to know now. Too much unknown at the moment to rule much definitively in or out. Evidence shows that somewhere between 50% - 75% of transmission is within a "domestic environment" but it clearly does happen elsewhere too (must do to get into a "domestic environment" in the first place)
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dravot wrote:
munich_irish wrote:
Dravot wrote:

I estimate I've had 20+ Covid tests this year as a result of work based travel. All negative.

Last week I was offered an antibody test - imagine my surprise when it came back positive and that I've had Covid at some point this year.

I've not been ill at all this year, not even a seasonal cold/sore throat etc...


This implies you had it asymptomatically early (say February before there was much if any testing) and have been immune since. You will not be alone in this.


My wife also did the antibody test and was negative....we've been married a while but are not quite socially distanced. Make you wonder how you can share a house with someone and not pass on the virus, but possibly can in a queue, ski-lift or pub?


A negative antibody test does not prove that you have not had Covid19. The antibody level post infection appears to vary from person to person, and it seems the level may drop to undetectable levels very quickly in some people. A positive result however, does prove you have had it. Ongoing immunity protection in relation to other immune responses has yet to be established.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I had a positive test in Feb - was in hospital, and a negative antibody test in August.
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orange wrote:
I had a positive test in Feb - was in hospital, and a negative antibody test in August.
I am sure you would not be alone in having a negative antibody test 6 months post infection. To date 8 months post infection I still had antibodies, but as I said it can vary hugely.
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munich_irish wrote:
Dravot wrote:


My wife also did the antibody test and was negative....we've been married a while but are not quite socially distanced. Make you wonder how you can share a house with someone and not pass on the virus, but possibly can in a queue, ski-lift or pub?


There have been plenty of cases of some individual's in a household getting infected and the others not. It might be that you, for whatever reason, dont pass on the virus, perhaps your immune system just reacted quickly in producing antibodies so you were never infectious, impossible to know now. Too much unknown at the moment to rule much definitively in or out. Evidence shows that somewhere between 50% - 75% of transmission is within a "domestic environment" but it clearly does happen elsewhere too (must do to get into a "domestic environment" in the first place)


It's all very interesting. I don't recall ever even having ordinary flu. I've had coughs/colds and chest infections, but not proper flu...perhaps a natural immunity, or just lucky.
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From the Telegraph:

Quote:

Hundreds of British skiers forced to quarantine in the Swiss resort of Verbier have escaped from their quarters, as a local politician complained it was nearly impossible to control the coronavirus due to Europe's porous borders.
The holiday-makers were ordered to isolate for 10 days in their accommodation after the UK announced it had detected a mutation of the coronavirus.
But on Sunday, hoteliers informed officials that breakfast trays were left untouched outside guests’ rooms and calls were unanswered.
Of the 420 Britons identified by authorities as being in the luxury resort when the quarantine was hastily enforced, less than a dozen remained by Sunday.


Reading the article it looks that there was a legal gateway to leave, but communications from the Swiss Authorities was shambolic and and many left in a manner which they may have thought legal but didn't follow the Swiss rules.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The 10k British skiers escaping quarantine has now made the MSM. Will probably end the slim chances of any UK citizens skiing this season.

Unfortunate thread title now.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Android2000 wrote:
The 10k British skiers escaping quarantine has now made the MSM. Will probably end the slim chances of any UK citizens skiing this season.

Unfortunate thread title now.


Not at all. No one bears them any ill will. They got here and found themselves in a situation that they hadn’t remotely anticipated. That they left wasn’t really such a surprise. Shutting them up in hotel rooms for 10 days wouldn’t really have made any difference - they're better off back at home and we’re better off that they’re gone.
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orange wrote:
I had a positive test in Feb - was in hospital, and a negative antibody test in August.


It’s interesting isn’t it? I had an antibody test last week which was negative, that wasn’t a surprise to me as I don’t think I’ve had it, and if I had I must have been completely asymptomatic. A friend had symptoms of a ‘heavy’ chest sort of feeling, loss of taste and smell in April after leaving hospital with her new baby and her antibody test last week was positive.
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munich_irish wrote:
Dravot wrote:


My wife also did the antibody test and was negative....we've been married a while but are not quite socially distanced. Make you wonder how you can share a house with someone and not pass on the virus, but possibly can in a queue, ski-lift or pub?


There have been plenty of cases of some individual's in a household getting infected and the others not. It might be that you, for whatever reason, dont pass on the virus, perhaps your immune system just reacted quickly in producing antibodies so you were never infectious, impossible to know now. Too much unknown at the moment to rule much definitively in or out. Evidence shows that somewhere between 50% - 75% of transmission is within a "domestic environment" but it clearly does happen elsewhere too (must do to get into a "domestic environment" in the first place)


Someone I worked with in October has a husband in the Army so there are 4 chaps all of similar age sharing a bunk room together plus working together most of the time too. 2 of them tested positive 2 of them negative. Of the 2 that tested positive, one was quite ill and the other had no idea he had it.
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Anyone in Verbier at the moment?
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@Android2000, +1

The minority spoil it for the rest, nothing knew really. It was always going to happen.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
skimastaaah wrote:
Anyone in Verbier at the moment?


Yep. Can’t say I blame the Brits for getting in their cars and leaving. Anyway, lots of other Euros here judging by the plates around town. Lots of hysteria for nothing IMO but Verbier’s rep is certainly taking a pasting. Snowing again so off to subject myself to the Covid gondola...

This is the local perspective
https://www.lenouvelliste.ch/articles/valais/verbier-les-touristes-britanniques-ont-deserte-la-station-1024154
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
No way I'd have gone to Switzerland in the first place (I had a Geneva flight booked since March, but didn't take it) but if I had, and was quarantined in a hotel room, I'd definitely have got out and driven straight home if I had no symptoms.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
There's now an article on the front page of the BBC News website about Brits fleeing Verbier after quarantine was imposed. I'm surprised by some of the comments here supporting their actions, unless I've misunderstood something about what the rules were.

I think it's completely unacceptable to break quarantine rules, no matter whether you are at home or on holiday abroad. I've no issue with people having gone to Switzerland to ski while it was allowed by the rules in the UK and Switzerland, but you'd have to be aware that there was a risk of the situation suddenly changing, as it has done so many times throughout 2020.

Of course if you have to quarantine in a hotel room that is not good. But it is exactly what many thousands of people have had to do around the world in dozens of countries over the last several months.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
They got here and found themselves in a situation that they hadn’t remotely anticipated.

People really aren't that dumb....... are they?

I'd have come home, but wouldn't have gone in the 1st place


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 28-12-20 12:03; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I am on my last day quarantining in Zermatt as I don't have a car I couldn't leave without public transport.

I understand why people have left, the messages from the Swiss Cantons have been very mixed each time I've spoken to them. This along with different messages from the British Embassy which have made it difficult to know what is right and wrong.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Frosty the Snowman wrote:
Quote:
They got here and found themselves in a situation that they hadn’t remotely anticipated.

People really aren't that dumb....... are they?

I'd have come home, but wouldn't have gone in the 1st place


The gov.uk website is quite clear:

be prepared to comply with measures to manage localised outbreaks such as border closures, movement restrictions or quarantine rules. These could be brought in at short notice

And I wonder how many of those who fled quarantine will self isolate for 10 days upon return to UK.
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Quite happy the authorities here (France) made the decision for us, despite Valais advertising its open resorts - I could easily have broken the French rule with absolutely no risk, hop into Switzerland, enjoy a few hours of ski and head back. No Covid risk, no fine risk either. But what a bad example for others.

So for now we enjoy empty slopes this side of the border (and yes I'd prefer having lifts), the kid trains anyway, and there's always 2021. Or 2022.
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denfinella wrote:
There's now an article on the front page of the BBC News website about Brits fleeing Verbier after quarantine was imposed. I'm surprised by some of the comments here supporting their actions, unless I've misunderstood something about what the rules were.

I think it's completely unacceptable to break quarantine rules, no matter whether you are at home or on holiday abroad. I've no issue with people having gone to Switzerland to ski while it was allowed by the rules in the UK and Switzerland, but you'd have to be aware that there was a risk of the situation suddenly changing, as it has done so many times throughout 2020.

Of course if you have to quarantine in a hotel room that is not good. But it is exactly what many thousands of people have had to do around the world in dozens of countries over the last several months.


Is it illegal to break isolation to leave the country in Switzerland as thats not the case in the UK - you can leave self-isolation to leave the country. Although, not sure how that rule now applies in tier 4 areas.
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Apparently someone from Swiss authorities on the news saying it was ok for them to leave to go home. So not really a story.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I guess they were at the end of their Xmas week and may have had to return to work today??
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Some of the fleeing Brits don't seem to have done the reputation of British skiers in general any good, moonlight flit from their hotels then phoning for a refund as soon as they were safely over the French border
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
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colinstone wrote:
I guess they were at the end of their Xmas week and may have had to return to work today??


Or return for 5/10 days isolation. That said, I've not had a single call/text/visit following any of my overseas trips this year, whether business or pleasure.
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Dravot wrote:
Is it illegal to break isolation to leave the country in Switzerland as thats not the case in the UK - you can leave self-isolation to leave the country. Although, not sure how that rule now applies in tier 4 areas.


If leaving self-isolation to leave the country was permitted, then fair enough (and perhaps the media companies could have mentioned that!).
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andy from embsay wrote:
Apparently someone from Swiss authorities on the news saying it was ok for them to leave to go home. So not really a story.

Do you have a link Andy? A definitive statement from an "authority" would be v.useful!

TIA.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
https://twitter.com/UKEmbassyBerne/status/1342066146955190272?s=20

This said you were allowed to leave, the Valais Canton told me otherwise so easy to see why people would leave.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
J2Dave wrote:
andy from embsay wrote:
Apparently someone from Swiss authorities on the news saying it was ok for them to leave to go home. So not really a story.

Do you have a link Andy? A definitive statement from an "authority" would be v.useful!

TIA.


https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/switzerland?fbclid=IwAR1Iv10UYXCzODbFlI_sco1Z22WmYQya-sMpegQOnVVOcbPTK-8FZdicUXA

Says: “In addition to flight options for returning UK residents resuming from 24 December, the land border remains open enabling overland return travel. There are currently no restrictions on travelling through France to the UK but this is subject to change.”
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Asked about the runaway tourists, the Swiss health minister, Alain Berset, said: “We are aware of that. It’s obviously a problem. There was an order to quarantine that has not been respected.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/28/dozen-britons-remain-in-quarantine-in-swiss-ski-resort-verbier-covid

I join twitter users in an unambiguous condemnation of the entitled, arrogant and wealthy Brits who dared to escape the Blighty for Christmas.

Yes, I am jealous too.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I want to know what happened to the Snowhead who was proudly touting his great escape from Londons tier 4 imposition on the Saturday night by saying he was heading to Switzerland to go skiing. I can't seem to find his post anymore.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Didn’t he post again and they left Switzerland in very short order and made it back ok?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
To be honest I can’t get upset up about any of this. People took a gamble (although it was perfectly within the rules to do so when they made the call, it was clearly not the right call to make), found themselves confined, conceivably received mixed signals from panicked officials whether or not they could legally leave and decided to err on the side of getting out.
Meanwhile back in the UK I know dozens of people ignoring the rules to mix at Christmas, people in Tier 4 touring the country because it’s inconceivable for them not to see adult children for one Christmas. Of course the rules don’t apply to them as they have been isolating (except for shopping and walks of course).
I am not sure these skiers deserve particular ire over and above anyone else breaking the rules. If there’s one thing you can be sure of, it’s absolutely that your blue passport and the British authorities will do very little to help you out of a sticky situation whether it was of your own making or otherwise. I can understand people making a dash in an ambiguous situation particularly given the stories we have read eg visitors imprisoned in Italian hotels for months on end until they repeatedly test clear.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
They have their names and passport details. IF I where the Swiss I would impose fines on them and then catch them next time they try and enter Switzerland. Travelling abroad for a holiday at the moment is a high risk gamble, that these covidiots took, but when the consequences hit decided to break the law rather than live with the consequences of their decisions.
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"Persons resident in the UK currently in Switzerland...will be able to return home from 24 December"
https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/fdfa/fdfa/aktuell/newsuebersicht/2020/01/corona-virus.html
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@jabuzzard, if they drove across the border rather than flying how would they have their passport details? Not all hotels ask for them.

Which as I understand most of the people who "fled" did drive to Switzerland.
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@BenW_86, they should ask for them - all cantons require guests to be registered in hotels.
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Skimum1 wrote:
Didn’t he post again and they left Switzerland in very short order and made it back ok?


Well, I just hope they are isolating for the appropriate amount of days, a high price for a few days skiing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I guess the next move for Switz. is to put up border controls and require any non-Swiss national to have a visa to enter. Of course that would crush their tourist economy.
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Extremophile wrote:
I want to know what happened to the Snowhead who was proudly touting his great escape from Londons tier 4 imposition on the Saturday night by saying he was heading to Switzerland to go skiing. I can't seem to find his post anymore.

HilbertSpace's posts are still there on Pages 2, 3 and 4 of this thread.

Extremophile wrote:
Skimum1 wrote:
Didn’t he post again and they left Switzerland in very short order and made it back ok?


Well, I just hope they are isolating for the appropriate amount of days, a high price for a few days skiing

I did ask that question but he hasn't replied.

As far as I could tell, him and his son would be required to self-isolate for ten days (although the other members of his family who did not travel would not be required to do so), unless they took COVID tests to confirm they aren't currently infected, and then that period could be cut short apparently.

That's enough to put me off trying to squeeze in a short trip for now, even if I could travel anywhere.
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Why is everyone screaming at those "fleeing" Switzerland when it's Switzerland that did the "bite and trap" in the first place?

When all of Europe was doing their best to curtail travel, Switzerland hold itself out as the shining beacon of fun. "Come, our hotels are open, our mountains are open, to ALL, locals and tourists"!

Then, AFTER people had arrived, it traps them with a retroactive mandatory quarantine! Not even allowing them to leave to go home!

What's their justification of not allowing them to leave, taking their supposedly deadly virus out of Switzerland with them back to where they supposedly brought it in from?

I have no skin in the game. And I understand the virus is a serious issue. But I just can't find any logic justifying what Switzerland did.
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