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Tips for carving turns

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello, snowheads!

As the season is starting (in some countries atleast) I started looking back at some of my old footage and wanted to ask you for any feedback or tips on how I can improve my carving.


http://youtube.com/v/T7upNF7iW40

I am the skier with the black jacket and green bottoms.

My thoughts are that I am angulating too much, if that is possible, but any feedback is welcome.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
...
tips on how I can improve my carving.


Dunno. Try turns with a longer radius?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You look just like our young racers playing on the piste, enjoying just how much edge they can get and how sharp they can turn. I am not qualified to comment on your technique, but you look like you are having fun.
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johnE wrote:
You look just like our young racers playing on the piste.

Not to a race coach he doesn't.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

Not to a race coach he doesn't.


So can you give me some pointers on what to work on?
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@Ivchaka01, The main thing that I see is that you are rotating your legs in the hip sockets to match how the skis are turning. We teach racers to rotate the pelvis below the waist to match the skis, this puts the body in a stronger position.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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@Ivchaka01, try carving on steeper slopes with lots of hard ice. It focuses your mind on what you are trying to achieve.

The main purpose of carving, is to get that extra boost when your ski powers you out of the turn. If you are only wobbling from side to side in order to control speed, you get no benefit of carving!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Bigtipper, That isn't how we coach racers, we get the technique right first on the easiest slopes possible.
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Quote:

@Ivchaka01, The main thing that I see is that you are rotating your legs in the hip sockets to match how the skis are turning. We teach racers to rotate the pelvis below the waist to match the skis, this puts the body in a stronger position.



Is there any drill that you can recommend me or a queue that I can keep in mind next time I go skiing?
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@rjs, the question from the op was about carving, not racing. Specifically regarding possible over angulation.

In my experience of carving when learning is that you should be using the whole width of the slope you are on and angulate as much as you can so that the downhill ski bends and then straightens. Getting that feeling of the ski bending and straightening is what it is all about, not seeing how fast you can go straight down a slope.



Look at the lines in this photo. What do they tell you about what I was doing wrong carving my turns?
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Quote:

The main purpose of carving, is to get that extra boost when your ski powers you out of the turn.

I may be wrong but I thought the main point of carving is that it easier. The skis do the work rather than you.
Quote:

not seeing how fast you can go straight down a slope.

If you straight down you miss the gates and will be disqualified.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I don't know if it will help - but this is what I work on for Short Turns:

- Very quiet upper body, that faces directly down the hill and hips hovering in the middle

- Ski from the feet up. Think of starting the turn by tilting the feet and letting the knees follow (rather than the other way round).

- Pole plant to aid rhythm and timing - but make sure pole planting arm doesn't get left behind, as arms need to stay in front

- No Up Movement ie Flex to Transition.....Allow feet to go out to the side. Then soften legs to let feet feet retract and come back underneath body, with flexing the knees, rather an upward movement.

- Suck feet back at the start of the turn, to get tips to bite - which will pull you into the turn.

- Make sure the less weighted ski matches the timing and angle of the turning ski....If anything, get the new Unweighted Ski going over onto its new edge a touch before the Turning Ski, to help prevent A- Frame ie. Gives the feeling of a slight O-Frame.

- Feel both skis carving through the turn, without forcing it. On a shallower slope, I would have a little more weight on the U/Hill ski (than I would on a steep slope).

- Really concentrate on making a C-Shape. As the slope gets steeper, hold onto the turn longer (as in J-Turn) and this should ping you into the next turn, while giving control.

- As speed builds, try and get the skis further and further out to the side and away from the hips ie. Greater edge angle

This video is a great image to have in your mind:


http://youtube.com/v/l5gnnZXoDK0


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 29-11-20 10:20; edited 8 times in total
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Being a board rider I don't know about pelvis and hips but you are only getting good angulation at the apex of the turn, I think you should engage the edges sooner and for longer but I appreciate the narrow piste is not ideal for this.
When you are carving C turns as soon as you stop pressing through the second part and start to rise then a combination of centrifugal force and momentum will throw your body across the board/skis so you can immediately engage the opposite edge.
Your motion is tidy but it's more like you are jumping with both feet together from one side to the other in order to keep balance.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Too much swing.

Buy shorter planks.

Ditch the backpack.

Head for the steeps.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Hi @Ivchaka01 you're skiing quite nicely, but would suggest as someone else has already.

Ride the carve in a bigger arc (as long as your not in anyones way)
Take some music with you and think about this:


http://youtube.com/v/uW4F8AEiofk&t=218s
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
You've got to let yourself go .. go.... go!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@DrLawn, There is a footpath along that ridge in San Pellegino with a few short sections of Via Ferrata in it. I did that walk in the summer and walked down parts of the pistein the video. I have to say it took me hours to get down. It would have been nice to have skis on.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:


Hi @Ivchaka01 you're skiing quite nicely, but would suggest as someone else has already.

Ride the carve in a bigger arc (as long as your not in anyones way)
Take some music with you and think about this:



http://youtube.com/v/uW4F8AEiofk&t=218s


This is one of my favorite skiing videos! Yeah, I'm getting new skis this winter, shorter, more slalom oriented, so I'll focus on finishing my turns and will update you all with a new video!
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Hi @johnE, Thats sounds fabulous, I did sneak into Italy in the summer .. but down along Lago Maggore .. it isn't so good for walking as the Dolies though.
I'm not much of a walker really the misses and I had our limit at 3 miles around Gunpowder Park yesterday.

@Ivchaka01, If you love to carve then you got to try Head Magnums they just give you feeling of "rail and curve". Or perhaps Rossignol Heros
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

@Ivchaka01, If you love to carve then you got to try Head Magnums they just give you feeling of "rail and curve". Or perhaps Rossignol Heros


I'm currently torn between the Rossignol Hero Elite MT and Dynastar Speed Master SL.
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@DrLawn, I'm not much of a walker either. The walk along the ridge took me over 10 hours for about 11 or 12 km and a 1000m of climbing. The descent down the scree slope took over 2 hours alone (I wish I was on skis). I finished in the dark, under a deluging thunderstorm and alone. But I enjoyed it
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Ivchaka01 I've tried Heros on two holidays .. last December I had a pair in Tignes for a couple of days and they just "lit up" loved em.
I rented them again in Zell in February, and I was not so impressed, I dont know why, probably me. Puzzled

johnE, 10 hours? I could not even stand for that long. Sounds like an adventure, well done!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

johnE, 10 hours? I could not even stand for that long. Sounds like an adventure, well done!

It should have taken 6 hours. Some of my friends got down almost 2 hours before me. My knees are wrecked so walking downhill is slow and painfull. And I am very unfit so walking uphill is slow. It is only when we get to the wires on the Via Ferrata that I can make up time. As for skiing, the Ski Mojo has made a huge difference.

Back to carving. I have two sets of skis in regular use: a pair of slaloms for the dry slope racing:1.55m long with a 11m side cut. On snow they are very easy to carve on firm snow, a bit tricker on the dryslope where I'm not fast enougth to get from edge to edge and not flexible enougth to get as much edge as in the original post. Oddly the fairly soft almost straight Armada all mountain skis carve remarkably well on the piste where they bend and give a good edge.
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Ivchaka01 wrote:
...a nd wanted to ask you for any feedback or tips on how I can improve my carving.
You are rushing the first phase of the turn, the setup phase, dumping and twisting your hips across your skis faster than you are generating forces to balance against. As a result you rely too much on your inside ski in the first part of the turn, rather than balancing more effectively on your outside ski. Because you are not maximising the forces from the beginning of the turn it is going to limit how far laterally you can move, so you're not going to hit the high edge angles that you should be able to generating if you set up the turn more effectively.

I think you need to focus on the first phase of the turn, to get a more effective setup. Do some one-foot turns as this will mean you can't be too reliant on your inside ski, and it will probably stop you dumping your hips, resulting in a stronger platform from the top of the turn.
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rob@rar wrote:
Ivchaka01 wrote:
...a nd wanted to ask you for any feedback or tips on how I can improve my carving.
You are rushing the first phase of the turn, the setup phase, dumping and twisting your hips across your skis faster than you are generating forces to balance against. As a result you rely too much on your inside ski in the first part of the turn, rather than balancing more effectively on your outside ski. Because you are not maximising the forces from the beginning of the turn it is going to limit how far laterally you can move, so you're not going to hit the high edge angles that you should be able to generating if you set up the turn more effectively.

I think you need to focus on the first phase of the turn, to get a more effective setup. Do some one-foot turns as this will mean you can't be too reliant on your inside ski, and it will probably stop you dumping your hips, resulting in a stronger platform from the top of the turn.

That's brilliant.

Picking up that "fault" was subtle. I felt that the turn was a touch rushed, but couldn't breakdown why.
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Old Fartbag wrote:
That's brilliant.

Picking up that "fault" was subtle. I felt that the turn was a touch rushed, but couldn't breakdown why.
Laughing I'd like to claim a "great eye" but it's a pretty common issue with skiers who are skilled, but haven't yet developed a good "feel" for the ebb and flow of the forces they generate as they create turns. The biggest challenge in addressing this issue is to get the skier to dial back the desire to create big edge angles and tune in to their internal feedback.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rob@rar wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
That's brilliant.

Picking up that "fault" was subtle. I felt that the turn was a touch rushed, but couldn't breakdown why.
Laughing I'd like to claim a "great eye" but it's a pretty common issue with skiers who are skilled, but haven't yet developed a good "feel" for the ebb and flow of the forces they generate as they create turns. The biggest challenge in addressing this issue is to get the skier to dial back the desire to create big edge angles and tune in to their internal feedback.

When you say do "One Footed turns" - do you mean lifting a ski and skiing down the mountain on the other; or do you mean lifting the tail of the d/hill ski prior to turning, thus making that turn on one ski?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Old Fartbag wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
That's brilliant.

Picking up that "fault" was subtle. I felt that the turn was a touch rushed, but couldn't breakdown why.
Laughing I'd like to claim a "great eye" but it's a pretty common issue with skiers who are skilled, but haven't yet developed a good "feel" for the ebb and flow of the forces they generate as they create turns. The biggest challenge in addressing this issue is to get the skier to dial back the desire to create big edge angles and tune in to their internal feedback.

When you say do "One Footed turns" - do you mean lifting a ski and skiing down the mountain on the other, or do you mean lifting the tail of the d/hill ski prior to turning, thus making that turn on one ski?
As soon as you start the turn you pick up the inside ski, complete all of the turn on the outside skis, place inside ski on the snow and immediately stand on it to start the next turn. The key thing is to take the inside ski entirely out of the picture, so you are fully balanced on the outside ski through all three phases of the turn.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rob@rar wrote:

As soon as you start the turn you pick up the inside ski, complete all of the turn on the outside skis, place inside ski on the snow and immediately stand on it to start the next turn. The key thing is to take the inside ski entirely out of the picture, so you are fully balanced on the outside ski through all three phases of the turn.

Thanks, that what I thought.

If I had to pick one drill that was of crucial importance - that would be the it.

I get a double measure of learning when trying to diagnose other people's skiing - Can I see what they are doing wrong? Can I learn from the answers given by those qualified to comment?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Old Fartbag wrote:
rob@rar wrote:

As soon as you start the turn you pick up the inside ski, complete all of the turn on the outside skis, place inside ski on the snow and immediately stand on it to start the next turn. The key thing is to take the inside ski entirely out of the picture, so you are fully balanced on the outside ski through all three phases of the turn.

Thanks, that what I thought.

If I had to pick one drill that was of crucial importance - that would be the it.

I get a double measure of learning when trying to diagnose other people's skiing - Can I see what they are doing wrong? Can I learn from the answers given by those qualified to comment?
One footed-drills are always good (although always tough to do). There are other things you can do around the setup phase of the turn, but getting this dialled would be more than enough to be going on with. Easier to manage in a longer turn that a short radius turn, and well suited for a cross-over transition rather than a cross-through or cross-under, but it's a fundamental which needs to be put in place.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So, is it one or two? (2 directly conflicting responses from others above)

1. - Feel both skis carving through the turn, without forcing it. On a shallower slope, I would have a little more weight on the U/Hill ski (than I would on a steep slope).

2. As soon as you start the turn you pick up the inside ski, complete all of the turn on the outside skis, place inside ski on the snow and immediately stand on it to start the next turn. The key thing is to take the inside ski entirely out of the picture, so you are fully balanced on the outside ski through all three phases of the turn.

The Number 2. is better developmental advice. You have to learn to ski on one ski before you learn to ski on two. The 100% to 100% weight transfer is for advanced intermediate an not experts. Expert carvers, WC SL, keep both skis engaged in the turn as much as possible because it is a more fluid and articulate use of the feet. A skilled carver can maintain pressure on the inside ski which is why you see no A frame or tip lead. Actually using the inside ski keeps it where you see it in the WC. If you try to keep it there without engaging the inside ski, you are skiing to look which never works out in the end.
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