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Irreparable damage to Italy's ski resorts

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-55414708
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I imagine the story is repeated many many times over the whole Alps. I hope these people are receiving adequate government support, but somehow I doubt it.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I’m not quite sure how this is “news” ... nor unique to ski stations. Bro in law’s London bars aren’t doing so well, and no, he’s not getting a great deal of support.
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Of course it's "news" - we've had masses of news about the hit to the UK's hospitality industry, after all. And I've found much of our main news so relentlessly parochial that a story from the Italian Alps is actually quite welcome.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@pam w, +1.
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@pam w, shouldn’t news be new and novel? This is just stating the bleeding obvious.
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Quote:

This is just stating the bleeding obvious

If the permanent, 24/7 news industry was denied the opportunity to state the bleeding obvious we'd be spared 97% of it.
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Gosh you lot are cheerful this morning.
Anyone would.think your industry and business had been totally wiped out by Covid - like mine
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davidof wrote:


Great - for those who speak Italian rolling eyes
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Quote:
To your kind attention

Professor Giuseppe Conte President of the Council of Ministers

Hon. Dario Franceschini

Minister for Cultural Heritage and Activities and Tourism

Hon. Ing. Stefano Patuanelli Minister of Economic Development

We turn to you, on behalf of the main operators of the hotel system, since we have been without any doubt one of the production sectors most affected, and in a dramatic way, by the pandemic. No other sector has experienced and suffered an economic disaster comparable to the one we are experiencing. Despite this, the state "refreshment" measures are not adequate to the significant losses that the tourism sector is recording, and the envisaged measures appear laughable, especially for medium and large operators.

The sector we represent is strategic: it attracts capital and tourist flows, including international ones, and contributes to producing 13% of the national GDP and creating over 4 million jobs, We generate a huge market and allow the discovery and use of the territory , made up of extraordinary natural and artistic-cultural attractions, thus enhancing the country. The quality standards that we offer every day are promoters and spokespersons of Italian welcome and hospitality, national prerogatives for which we are recognized all over the world. For this reason. we expect measures that recognize our role. The measures contained in the various provisions of the last 9 months and the Refreshments Decrees prove to be profoundly insufficient resp

to the crisis we are experiencing and do not seem to grasp the gravity of the situation that is severely bending us. At the same

mode, the 2021 Budget Law and the National Recovery and Resilience Plan - PNRR do not present adequate interventions to

a leading sector of the Italian economy. Public data ruthlessly highlights a tragic situation, without precedent.

To date, 95% of turnover, capital invested and jobs in our supply chains are at risk.

We have witnessed impassively the necessary introduction of measures to contain the pandemic, but in an equally resolute way we are asking today for financial instruments and contributions that allow us to limit the repercussions and to project ourselves towards a future of recovery, which we can easily imagine will be slow and tiring: we invoke the application of article 107.2.b of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union which allows the total reimbursement of the damages suffered as a result of exceptional events, such as Covid 19. The relaunch of the country will mainly move from the immense heritage that we preserve, from excellence that we represent, with the qualities that identify us and in which we identify ourselves. Therefore we are clamoring for serious support from the Government.

We believe that all Italian companies, large and small, in whatever sector they operate, and therefore also in tourism, deserve equal dignity, also and above all with respect to the management of the economic crisis generated by the pandemic.

Trusting in the understanding of our requests and in your swift and decisive intervention

Via Google lens translation hopefully it is understandable
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

Great - for those who speak Italian

Or who have heard of Google Translate rolling eyes
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@pam w, It's an image, so you can't directly feed it into Google Translate. @pieman666 has done a good job with Lens, but that's a little more involved and requires a dedicated app afaik.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
under a new name wrote:
@pam w, shouldn’t news be new and novel? This is just stating the bleeding obvious.

One man's "bleeding obvious" is another man's news.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Scarlet wrote:
@pam w, It's an image, so you can't directly feed it into Google Translate. @pieman666 has done a good job with Lens, but that's a little more involved and requires a dedicated app afaik.


The phone app will.
Quite often I will scan a menu with my translator app, so I know what I am ordering..... so much easier when they put pictures next to the dish Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Strewth, the phone app is good at matching things!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pieman666 wrote:

Via Google lens translation hopefully it is understandable


Thanks pieman, I was about to translate a summary by hand Sad
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Kenzie, this was “news” 6-8 weeks ago rolling eyes
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Italy is one of the poorest countries in the developed world.

It simply cannot afford to lose ski resorts that feed the north.

They need to reopen soon, and fast.
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@Whitegold, But they have health care.
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You mean skiing is going extinct in the Dolomites. To me the word irreparable means, broken and damaged beyond repair forever. And I don't need to tell anyone here that forever is a might long time.

I have always wanted to ski in the Dolomites. It's on my bucket list. So, does that mean I will never be able to fulfill this dream of skiing in the Dolomites because skiing in Italy is irreparable? I'm not trying to be facetious, but this doom and gloom talk, and that the world is changed forever due to COVID seems to be a bit sensational. Or maybe I'm just naïve, and I will actually never get to experience the food and culture and adventure of skiing in Italy? I guess time will tell. Puzzled
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I've never heard of Foppolo..
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yorkshirelad wrote:
I've never heard of Foppolo..


I had -- never considered it, but thought I might in future - It did look good Smile
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As of 2016, South Tyrol is the wealthiest province in Italy and among the wealthiest in the European Union.-SourceWikipedia.

They'll be fine. wink
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Whitegold wrote:
Italy is one of the poorest countries in the developed world.


Tosh. Some Italians are poor by the standards of neighbouring European countries but there are two parallel economies operating in Italy - the official one and the enormous black one. Combined they are very far from poor but the wealth isn't distributed very well and the Government is starved of lots of tax revenue by that black economy. If you go down to mob-run cities like Naples you'll see poverty but the north is prosperous and although tourism is important, it ain't half as vital as manufacturing and food production. The ski resorts and hotels will still all be there whenever we're allowed back.
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Italy is a high-unemployment, high-debt, low-growth, low-wealth, postindustrial wasteland of economic decay.

Italy is poorer than Saudi Arabia and will soon be overtaken by Puerto Rico.

At a lowly ~$40k GDP PC PPP, and rocketing ~10% unemployment, Italy simply cannot afford to close its ski resorts.

They need the cash!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Whitegold wrote:

Italy is poorer than Saudi Arabia ....


Is that a surprise?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Pruman wrote:
Whitegold wrote:
Italy is one of the poorest countries in the developed world.


Tosh. Some Italians are poor by the standards of neighbouring European countries but there are two parallel economies operating in Italy - the official one and the enormous black one. Combined they are very far from poor but the wealth isn't distributed very well and the Government is starved of lots of tax revenue by that black economy. If you go down to mob-run cities like Naples you'll see poverty but the north is prosperous and although tourism is important, it ain't half as vital as manufacturing and food production. The ski resorts and hotels will still all be there whenever we're allowed back.


Once got told off for referring to the black economy, it's non-PC, even though many still use the term as do I, the preferred PC term is informal economy. This really annoys me as it infers that it's legitimate, which clealry most of the black economy is not.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Italy has probably the highest Black economy in the western world. Although that is not a good thing, the gdp per capita as a measurement is more underestimated than in other countries.

The development in Italy the last 20 years have been really sad. In the late 90’s, they were on level with the UK. 20 years of almost no growth has taken its toll. I guess the introduction of the euro has had its role in that. No chance of devaluation and no monetary playground has been a little disaster. Great for Germany with its low minimal wage and export driven economy, not good for the southern countries who were not ready at all for the euro. The value of the Euro is too high for the southern countries and too low for the northern countries. And the family-owned driven economy was not ready for globalization.

With that being said, calling Italy a postindustrial wasteland is a gross misstatement. There are many areas in Belgium, UK, France and the US that has suffered just as hard as Italy from the “globalization”. It still has a decent health care system and I guess that the GDP per capita in Northern Italy is very similar to that in Austria and southern France. Although the differences inside Italy is large with the north being substantial more rich than the south, it is still a well functioning country. I rather be poor in Italy compared to the UK or US! Apart from that, it has the best culture in the world and you cannot put a monetary value on that!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Italy is still pretty much on level with the UK - the difference is just a few %. And just like in the UK London area is several times richer than say Yorkshire, in Italy the north is several times richer than Puglia or Sicilly. The last 30 years have been great for the North which actually managed to catch up with France, Germany or Austria in all regards, but the south has been getting even poorer. High government debt is definitely a big issue and will backfire, but it's the same with France, Greece or Portugal. Italy is suffering from political instability leading to abstinence from reforms. No government has ever completed its term in Italy after WW2 with the average life of less than 2 years. It's a constitutional issue.

That said, Italy is extremely reliant on tourism, with only Croatia and Greece being similar in the EU. They need to come up with a way to restart tourism fast.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Scarlet wrote:
@pam w, It's an image, so you can't directly feed it into Google Translate. @pieman666 has done a good job with Lens, but that's a little more involved and requires a dedicated app afaik.


Pam W rolling eyes indeed! Toofy Grin
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I am not an expert in economics but I have been skiing in the Dolomites since 1997 and Italy really does not come across as a poor country. One year the weather was so bad we decided to take public transport n visit Bozen the biggest city nearby, everything and everybody was pretty and manicured if u know what I mean , nothing was out of place and you could clearly see that people led a very good lifestyle. I have been told that there is a big difference between the north n the south but still I would not compare Italy to Bulgaria or Slovenia , where I learnt to ski, totally different countries.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Harrow lady, the sud Tyrol is the wealthiest part of Italy by some margin. Basing your assessment of the wealth of a country on that sample will give you a false impression.

The wealth of the region is due in part to its special tax status and its membership of a special zone within the EU with the rest of the Tyrol.

As an example of the problems of judging the wealth of a country by only a visit to one part of it, my first visit to the USA was to Mississippi. I thought it was a third world country (that was back when Tito was still alive and third world was still an acceptable term). It was certainly much poorer than anywhere in Europe.
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@Harrow lady, try visiting Sicily for example, or Naples.
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Woosh wrote:
Italy has probably the highest Black economy in the western world. Although that is not a good thing, the gdp per capita as a measurement is more underestimated than in other countries.

The development in Italy the last 20 years have been really sad. In the late 90’s, they were on level with the UK. 20 years of almost no growth has taken its toll. I guess the introduction of the euro has had its role in that. No chance of devaluation and no monetary playground has been a little disaster. Great for Germany with its low minimal wage and export driven economy, not good for the southern countries who were not ready at all for the euro. The value of the Euro is too high for the southern countries and too low for the northern countries. And the family-owned driven economy was not ready for globalization.

With that being said, calling Italy a postindustrial wasteland is a gross misstatement. There are many areas in Belgium, UK, France and the US that has suffered just as hard as Italy from the “globalization”. It still has a decent health care system and I guess that the GDP per capita in Northern Italy is very similar to that in Austria and southern France. Although the differences inside Italy is large with the north being substantial more rich than the south, it is still a well functioning country. I rather be poor in Italy compared to the UK or US! Apart from that, it has the best culture in the world and you cannot put a monetary value on that!



Rosetinted nonsense.

There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever between the US and Italy, France, UK, or Belgium.

US GDP per-head is 30-60% higher than all those countries.

US net wealth per-head is +190% richer than Italy.

US is three times richer.

The wealth gap is a yawning chasm.

Like night and day.

Most of Italy is pretty much a thirdworld country.

Italian hospitals collapsed in Covid wave 1.
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@Whitegold, how do you account for the significantly longer life expectancy of Italians, compared to Americans?
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Quote:

@Whitegold, how do you account for the significantly longer life expectancy of Italians, compared to Americans?

Bill Bryson gives some explanations in his book on the body. IIRC the reasons are:

Poor health care system
Road accidents
firearms
opioid epidemic

Not long after my first visit to the USA I went to Liberia in West Africa. In Monrovia it felt very much like Mississippi.
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GDP isn’t everything, the Italian way of life has a lot going for it (with obvious exceptions).
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johnE wrote:


Not long after my first visit to the USA I went to Liberia in West Africa. In Monrovia it felt very much like Mississippi.


Not surprising as Liberia was built by American ex-slaves. The flag is a clue.

When were you there? I was working next door in the Ivory Coast in 96 (I think) and Liberia was totally unsafe to travel although a friend went there as she had an shipping office of her dad's company there.
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pam w wrote:
@Whitegold, how do you account for the significantly longer life expectancy of Italians, compared to Americans?


Bad diets. Bad for profit, capitalist healthcare system. And we have a gov't, (Trump) that could care less about COVID infections and death. There's way too much stress in the USA. Not enough paid time off or holidays. Lots of heart attacks and strokes.

I would still rather live in Italy than KSA though. I mean, KSA has deserts, oil and camels. They will be broke in 20 years when no one needs or wants their oil. No fun skiing on sand.

You are lucky if you start a job and get 10 paid days off after working a few years in your first job out of college. You might get 5 days paid sick leave. But normally you have to work a year before accruing any paid sick leave. Hardly any paid holiday. Generally most private or publicly held larger companies will give you New Year's Day, Memorial Day (Last Monday in May), Independence Day (July 4th), Labor Day (First Monday in Sept.), Thanksgiving Day (Last Thursday of November), and Christmas Day. That's 6 days of holiday pay. Some companies will give you a half day on Christmas Eve and maybe a short day on New Year's eve, and some that are not retail oriented will give you the day after Thanksgiving. But you can spend 10 years or 15 years to get 4 weeks paid leave, and that's the maximum.

The United States, unlike virtually all developed countries, does not have government-mandated vacation time. Many countries have as many as 30 days mandated time off, and many of those countries are in Africa. Every member of the European Union has at least 20 days mandated leave.

Besides mandated time off, people in other countries augment their vacation time with public holidays offered by their government. The European nations are among the world’s most generous nations in regard to paid public holidays – the Slovak Republic has 15 public holidays, Spain and Malta have 14, and Croatia, the Czech Republic, Austria, and Germany have up to 13 public holidays. Combined with mandated vacation days, workers in Europe can get as many as 38 days paid time off. And that holiday time contributes to making these nations the happiest countries in the world.
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