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Any brave families planning go to Switzerland this Christmas?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
ecureuil wrote:
@RobinS,
Uk gov wrote:
Stay as far away from other members of your household as possible, especially if they are clinically extremely vulnerable. Wherever possible, avoid using shared spaces such as kitchens and other living areas while others are present and take your meals back to your room to eat.


That quote support's RobinS's point and my understanding: distancing at home isn't the law (so there's no compulsion or risk of fines), but it is advised.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ma94jcg wrote:

To reiterate - returning home to the UK is unaffected by the ban


Provided that you can get back without walking, hitch hiking or swimming. wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Switzerland also announced a ban late on Sunday:
https://www.bazl.admin.ch/bazl/fr/home/medias/communiqu%C3%A9s-de-presse.msg-id-81764.html

Effective from midnight, no initial duration listed yet.
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@ecureuil,
Quote:


@RobinS,
Uk gov wrote:
Stay as far away from other members of your household as possible, especially if they are clinically extremely vulnerable. Wherever possible, avoid using shared spaces such as kitchens and other living areas while others are present and take your meals back to your room to eat.


I checked it - that is a suggestion, not a regulation. The regulation is very specific in that you can mix with others in your household (we checked because we share a small house with lodgers). Just another example of government misinformation.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
fixx wrote:
Switzerland also announced a ban late on Sunday:
https://www.bazl.admin.ch/bazl/fr/home/medias/communiqu%C3%A9s-de-presse.msg-id-81764.html

Effective from midnight, no initial duration listed yet.


Flights suspended. No mention on other travel forms.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland-bans-flights-from-uk-over-new-coronavirus/46236946
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colinstone wrote:
fixx wrote:
Switzerland also announced a ban late on Sunday:
https://www.bazl.admin.ch/bazl/fr/home/medias/communiqu%C3%A9s-de-presse.msg-id-81764.html

Effective from midnight, no initial duration listed yet.


Flights suspended. No mention on other travel forms.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland-bans-flights-from-uk-over-new-coronavirus/46236946


In addition to the information about flights from UK to Switzerland being suspended there is also a new requirement that from 12:00 (CET) 21 December anyone arriving from the United Kingdom, regardless of nationality, will be required to self-isolate for 10 days. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/switzerland?utm_source=0d293aa3-54d6-46d4-9853-2c9b066b8599&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Dravot wrote:
I posted on another thread that I have travelled extensively (internationally) this year and with sensible measures had avoided infection - but a simple call in to the office a couple of weeks ago (4 miles from home) could have infected me thanks to half the team in the neighbouring office all going down with Covid - thankful I went nowhere near them. I've just got back from 4V and with protection measures (hire car, self catering, lots of distancing) felt much safer there than in T4 here!

+1 on that. I was out in Crans Montana last week - travelled by train in both directions. The only time I felt I was 'at risk' was on Eurostar from London to Paris when it was surprisingly busy - so quiet in resort, no need to shares lifts or be close to anyone in restaurants etc. On return my sister-in-law has decided I'm persona non grata has was in Valais with high rate of infection. Two days later it turns out she's the high risk, being in Kent...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@HilbertSpace, Did you make it into CH before 1200 21 Dec and avoid quarantine??
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@iainm, yeah, how dare your sister-in-law live in Kent.
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@RobinS, you may be right. The current FCDO advice is that anyone returning from Switzerland, or many other places, has to "self-isolate". And the bit I quoted was the only part I could find on the gov.uk website on what "self-isolation" means. I agree that government advice is often confusing.

Many aspects of government guidance are advice rather than regulation, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't all be following them. And unfortunately one of the main reasons we are where we are with the virus is because although there are a few people who are prepared to breach regulations there are a far greater number who choose to only follow the regulations and not the advice!
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Any one who (from U.K.) arrived in CH after 14 Dec have to immediately quarantine Shocked


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 21-12-20 12:59; edited 1 time in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Wonder what that quarantine means if your due to fly home in next 14 days
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Jonny996, same as if you catch covid probably
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@rayscoops, yup

https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/media-releases.msg-id-81777.html

The Swiss government has ordered people who entered the country from the United Kingdom and South Africa since December 14 to go into a ten-day quarantine and imposed a general entry ban for foreign nationals seeking to travel from the two countries.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I would replace brave with covidiot, enjoy the quarantine.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Such a constructive post, thanks @woodpecker, glad you took the time to contribute
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Jonny996 wrote:
Wonder what that quarantine means if your due to fly home in next 14 days


Couldn't find any exemptions (other than visiting a doctor) in a quick English / Google translate scan of the docs on https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home/krankheiten/ausbrueche-epidemien-pandemien/aktuelle-ausbrueche-epidemien/novel-cov/empfehlungen-fuer-reisende/quarantaene-einreisende.html

In what seems like a very Swiss requirement, you apparently have to tell the Cantonal authorities within 2 days of arrival that you're quarantining so I guess they're the people to ask about leaving.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
HilbertSpace wrote:
HilbertSpace wrote:
Our family self drive Xmas trip to France was cancelled. I wanted to replace it with something in CH but my wife got cold feet.

So instead, as a compromise, I'm off to Verbier for three nights before Xmas with just my eldest, by plane and hire car. Can't wait!


Quick update... Our flight Sunday would not be permitted as it would be subject to tier 4 rules, so booked Le Shuttle and jumped in the car. Relaxing now in hotel in France and will continue drive to Verbier tomorrow. Fingers crossed no issues at Swiss border.

Crazy long queue of lorries at Folkestone but passenger car lane clear. Got through tunnel very fast Saturday evening.

Did you get into Switzerland?
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HilbertSpace wrote:
HilbertSpace wrote:
Our family self drive Xmas trip to France was cancelled. I wanted to replace it with something in CH but my wife got cold feet.

So instead, as a compromise, I'm off to Verbier for three nights before Xmas with just my eldest, by plane and hire car. Can't wait!


Quick update... Our flight Sunday would not be permitted as it would be subject to tier 4 rules, so booked Le Shuttle and jumped in the car. Relaxing now in hotel in France and will continue drive to Verbier tomorrow. Fingers crossed no issues at Swiss border.

Crazy long queue of lorries at Folkestone but passenger car lane clear. Got through tunnel very fast Saturday evening.


If you got to Verbier on Sunday I presume you'll now be starting your 10 day quarantine as from today? Sad Bad luck, you took a gamble which was reasonable at the time, but the fast developing situation has changed unfortunately. Looks like you'll have to miss Xmas in the UK, I expect your wife won't be too pleased..... Shocked
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Alastair Pink wrote:


If you got to Verbier on Sunday I presume you'll now be starting your 10 day quarantine as from today? :


don't be silly, he'll just whip out his blue passport and point to the bit about "without let or hindrance" to any local plod.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 21-12-20 15:15; edited 1 time in total
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My post at 211052 Dec:

@HilbertSpace, Did you make it into CH before 1200 21 Dec and avoid quarantine??
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
colinstone wrote:
My post at 211052 Dec:

@HilbertSpace, Did you make it into CH before 1200 21 Dec and avoid quarantine??


Looks like Swiss are applying quarantine retrospectively back to UK arrivals from 14 December Shocked Skullie

@HilbertSpace, ignore the naysayers; I wish you and the boy luck, fortune favours the brave!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Oh well,

Unwinding everything this evening. BA cancelled flights, car hire cancelled. Accommodation immediately offered to refund deposit (good guys - we will visit again for sure)
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woodpecker wrote:
I would replace brave with covidiot, enjoy the quarantine.


Did you really join this, a ski forum, to contribute that?

What a snivelling waste of everyone's time.
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>Looks like Swiss are applying quarantine retrospectively ...
Yes, chum flew into Basel yesterday evening for 3 weeks. Daughter went skiing today and mid pm they were told to isolate/quarantine.
A couple of months ago I had planned on 10 days Q on arrival.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@ski3, pot calling kettle black. We are ALL passionate skiers on this group who miss our skiing desperately, but it seems that the attitude of the “covidiots” is akin to mass dropping in to a loaded convex slope above large groups of other people
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I don't see the point in being censorious. As an over-65, I'm going nowhere until there's a vaccine + I can get Travel Insurance. But if I was younger, had the opportunity to go and could get travel cover, then I might well go. Especially since it's actually a lot safer at my destination than it is at home. I don't label someone as inferior because they made a decision I might also have made in their circumstances.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I don't see the point in being censorious. As an over-65, I'm going nowhere until there's a vaccine + I can get Travel Insurance. But if I was younger, had the opportunity to go and could get travel cover, then I might well go. Especially since it's actually a lot safer at my destination than it is at home. I don't label someone as inferior because they made a decision I might also have made in their circumstances.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I'd quite happily isolate in a nice chalet in Switzerland over Christmas so long as I can bring the dog.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
>I'd quite happily isolate in a nice chalet in Switzerland over Christmas so long as I can bring the dog.
Agree - over New Year.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Well, that's my trip referred to above cancelled; hotel & guide/kit v. straightforward; BA flight cancelled by BA, so no muss there. Apparently need to apply for a refund on the lift passes (c. CH500), so we shall see. Train from GVA to Sion a likely write-off (CH 70). Alas, ironically, my lad came home with a positive test on Friday and I was a bit ropey over the w/e; so by the time we were due to fly, we may well have been immune.

Have also finally cancelled my HT trip with our usual crew to the 3Vs. Agreed with Alpine Action to roll my deposit for a booking in 2022. Given that I am last in the queue for the vaccine, am not too hopeful about Easter. South American winter? (will never in a million years get that past the missus).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Dyrlac, can't you say what about summer holiday to her?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Happily some guy just ressurected a 9yo thread on point. Laughing "Ski"ied in Zermatt in the summer of 1993 (nb: experience kept me off the slopes for approx 20 years), maybe it's better than I remember.
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LaForet wrote:
I look for government for an absolute framework for what to do and not do. I think that a government policy of 'use your judgement' is an abrogation of responsibility


I don't totally disagree and would not seek to support the government's handling of the situation, however there is another way of looking at this. When creating a framework for society there are two alternative approaches - (1) defining rules specifically to say what is or is not allowed and (2) Setting principles which are then interpreted to define what is or is not allowed. The problem with the first (which your post seems to favour) is that in these fast-moving and unprecedented times it can be a challenge to anticipate all the scenarios up front in order to be able to create a full set of rules. Hence frequent U-turns as the situation changes. The second approach has some merit I think.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ski3 wrote:
woodpecker wrote:
I would replace brave with covidiot, enjoy the quarantine.


Did you really join this, a ski forum, to contribute that?

What a snivelling waste of everyone's time.


I totally 100% agree with @woodpecker,

No one should be travelling PERIOD especially for NON Essential Holidays ..

I'm fear for the young girl (has no idea) who in this being raised up to follow he mothers irresponsible attitude She thinks she is somehow above(aloof) everyone else.

Briitsh Covidiots
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DCG wrote:
LaForet wrote:
I look for government for an absolute framework for what to do and not do. I think that a government policy of 'use your judgement' is an abrogation of responsibility


I don't totally disagree and would not seek to support the government's handling of the situation, however there is another way of looking at this. When creating a framework for society there are two alternative approaches - (1) defining rules specifically to say what is or is not allowed and (2) Setting principles which are then interpreted to define what is or is not allowed. The problem with the first (which your post seems to favour) is that in these fast-moving and unprecedented times it can be a challenge to anticipate all the scenarios up front in order to be able to create a full set of rules. Hence frequent U-turns as the situation changes. The second approach has some merit I think.


I've changed my opinion on this since the start of the Pandemic. Early on I leaned much more towards the view that we should just be given the salient facts, details of best practice, and the 'why' of what we might be asked to do. This on the basis that individual circumstances are so diverse that there's a huge 'grey area' where some actions are fine sometimes, but not others. And in practical terms, we don't have the police and similar on the ground in the numbers needed to direct, let alone enforce the rules.

But my conclusion is that this just doesn't work. I've spoken to many people - some of them relatives - who simply don't Get It and who will happily say "Well, we're self-isolating." and then describe the exceptions that mean they absolutely and definitively are not. And a hundred similar misunderstandings in their interpretation of what's they are being asked to do, and why.

The danger of my view is that it leads to an authoritarian regime that decides it likes controlling its citizens too much when the time comes to give its 'temporary powers' up. Or one that takes control but does more damage than it prevents. The danger of the converse approach is that in the case of a pandemic, it doesn't work fast enough or effectively enough to obviate a large amount of completely avoidable health and economic fallout.

What I'm probably not also explaining well is that while positing a rules-based response, I'm also asking for the authorities to act: to take those simple measures within their power and remit that enforce those rules. So, for example, if we shouldn't be travelling for unnecessary trips abroad, then stop UK citizens flying out or driving out of the UK without the necessary documentation justifying the trip.

I suppose it's all a notional discussion anyway. Partly because the only proof of one or other position is to actually do it. And this government and in particular this PM and Cabinet leans so heavily towards the Small State, Libertarian, laissez-faire view that we're never going to see how well or not the alternative strategy works.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
There were guards on the French side of the Pas De Morgins at the weekend, but none on the main lake road at Veigy today.
Seems that Castex doesn't want me enjoying the fresh air outdoors in Morgins, but is happy for me to travel to my office every day and bring back whatever bugs I pick up there.
Inconsistency is not necessarily a function of the "Big State" / "Small State" paradigm, but a result of a lack of credible opposition to hold the government to account. ( This might also apply in other countries too Very Happy )
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
The messages have been confusing and not logical. From the Happy Birthday hand washing - message sing HB to kill it instead of explaining that it is the soap that destroys the virus in seconds. To yesterday a GWR trains spokesperson saying that they weren't policing the wearing of face masks. Instead of saying it is a ticket and carriage condition to wear one. No mask, No ticket, No(few) exceptions, Off train. Same with shops - they can choose conditions for entry.
The big indicator of common sense in society is littering. If the population can't get that right, e.g. atrocious post July lockdown, what hope for anything more complex???
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Quote:
Alas, ironically, my lad came home with a positive test on Friday and I was a bit ropey over the w/e; so by the time we were due to fly, we may well have been immune.


This has to be a wind-up surely! After a couple of days you'd still be infectious.... and of course would have been stuck at home isolating, right? Sounds like you got lucky with the flight being cancelled Smile
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WindOfChange wrote:
There were guards on the French side of the Pas De Morgins at the weekend, but none on the main lake road at Veigy today.
Seems that Castex doesn't want me enjoying the fresh air outdoors in Morgins, but is happy for me to travel to my office every day and bring back whatever bugs I pick up there.


We came back from Morzine yesterday, on the planned day via the planned route (GVA-AMS-LBA). We were quite nervous about getting into Switzerland but as you say the border by the lake seemed to be unmanned yesterday. We met a few lads on the journey who’d been tipped off by their hotel in Les Crosets that the police were “on their way” so made a run for home after a couple of days. So our trip went to plan - but it would have been a lot trickier had Easyjet not cancelled the flights and caused us to switch to KLM!
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