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Any brave families planning go to Switzerland this Christmas?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'd been planning to take my middle lad (14yo) to the Three Valleys 1 Jan - 6 Jan, flying into Geneva, as a combined christmas and birthday present ((in)arguably for myself). That is now obviously off (more sensible folk would have said it was never on rolling eyes), so I managed to book a fully refundable hotel and an off piste guide in Veysonnaz for those dates; we don't need any apres anyway. Cue the rumour mill of UK citizens being denied entry to Switzerland from 1 Jan, so I've now moved my flight to 31 December and gotten a surprisingly cheap hotel in Sion for what will be a NYE to forget (but an extra day's skiing snowHead). DS and I will be self-isolating until then...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dyrlac wrote:
I'd been planning to take my middle lad (14yo) to the Three Valleys 1 Jan - 6 Jan, flying into Geneva, as a combined christmas and birthday present ((in)arguably for myself). That is now obviously off (more sensible folk would have said it was never on rolling eyes), so I managed to book a fully refundable hotel and an off piste guide in Veysonnaz for those dates; we don't need any apres anyway. Cue the rumour mill of UK citizens being denied entry to Switzerland from 1 Jan, so I've now moved my flight to 31 December and gotten a surprisingly cheap hotel in Sion for what will be a NYE to forget (but an extra day's skiing snowHead). DS and I will be self-isolating until then...


Nice! Guide for the week?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Nice! Guide for the week?

Yep, DS2 has been my main partner on the slopes for the past 7 years: we effectively started skiing at the same time and are of a similar level (although he has a much higher ceiling Confused). We got into a bit of lift-accessed off piste last half term in the Before Times, so this is meant to give him (and me) a proper foundation. Mom has been surprisingly tolerant, even with the chance of having to quarantine at the beginning of term on our return, but I don't think she believes it's actually going to happen.
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what's the weather looking like for 19-26 December - not much snow forecast that I can see?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Dyrlac wrote:
Quote:

Nice! Guide for the week?

Yep, DS2 has been my main partner on the slopes for the past 7 years: we effectively started skiing at the same time and are of a similar level (although he has a much higher ceiling Confused). We got into a bit of lift-accessed off piste last half term in the Before Times, so this is meant to give him (and me) a proper foundation. Mom has been surprisingly tolerant, even with the chance of having to quarantine at the beginning of term on our return, but I don't think she believes it's actually going to happen.


Sounds great! Hopefully your guide will take you down the Etygeon itinerary which is a cool one!
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@Snowsartre, looks like a pretty snowy week to me starting from Sunday 20th. Fingers crossed!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
HilbertSpace wrote:
Our family self drive Xmas trip to France was cancelled. I wanted to replace it with something in CH but my wife got cold feet.

So instead, as a compromise, I'm off to Verbier for three nights before Xmas with just my eldest, by plane and hire car. Can't wait!


Quick update... Our flight Sunday would not be permitted as it would be subject to tier 4 rules, so booked Le Shuttle and jumped in the car. Relaxing now in hotel in France and will continue drive to Verbier tomorrow. Fingers crossed no issues at Swiss border.

Crazy long queue of lorries at Folkestone but passenger car lane clear. Got through tunnel very fast Saturday evening.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@HilbertSpace, I applaud your tenacity; my wife said no to our trip at the 11th hour as she is too worried about being forced to self-isolate while abroad and very spooked by the FCDO advice which I had omitted to mention... I have a pass to go with a couple of the children but think going missing for Christmas will find bags on the street in New Year. Hope it all goes well for you guys Very Happy
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HilbertSpace wrote:
HilbertSpace wrote:
Our family self drive Xmas trip to France was cancelled. I wanted to replace it with something in CH but my wife got cold feet.

So instead, as a compromise, I'm off to Verbier for three nights before Xmas with just my eldest, by plane and hire car. Can't wait!


Quick update... Our flight Sunday would not be permitted as it would be subject to tier 4 rules, so booked Le Shuttle and jumped in the car. Relaxing now in hotel in France and will continue drive to Verbier tomorrow. Fingers crossed no issues at Swiss border.

Crazy long queue of lorries at Folkestone but passenger car lane clear. Got through tunnel very fast Saturday evening.

Sounds very irresponsible.
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The use of "Brave" in the OP is stupid. Why not just be grateful for your families and close contacts health and wellbeing? There are other ways to enjoy quality family time this Christmas. I'm looking forward to extra weeks of skiing next season to make up for it, and doing what I can to support UK guides, accommodation companies etc then.
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@HilbertSpace, sounds very pragmatic.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I don't see any point in getting judgemental about whether people travel or not. Because you don't know the circumstances and in particular, the relative risks. Getting in a car on your drive and getting out of it again in a ski resort where you're self-catering; spending most of the day outdoors up a mountain; spending the evening in your apartment; and driving home again? This could be far less risky for everyone compared to taking public transport to your nearest town, doing the Christmas shopping there; trekking 'round the supermarket because you're one of the 88% of households that can't get a delivery slot; and going for your daily urban walk being bumped into every 100 metres by people without a mask. I'm not going anywhere until I get vaccinated - but that's because I'm 66 and the risk isn't worth it. Plus I can't get insurance either. But if I was younger and could get cover then it'd be a different. I wouldn't condemn people for going away if the risk metrics are different for them.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@HilbertSpace Remember to get your vignette at the border. The Swiss police and cameras are very hot on picking up people who don't have them. And driving to Verbier is going to be so much quicker if you can use the autoroutes.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@rungsp, they aren't mutually exclusive.
@LaForet, I think that is the only judgemental post I've ever made and I would agree with your remarks until yesterday but surely the whole point of tier 4 is to avoid spreading this new version around the rest of UK and the world.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I agree - love to read people’s updates when they have managed to get some skiing in (within the law and quarantine rules of course). I don’t really enjoy posts making moral judgments nearly so much...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@LaForet, Covid risk is absolute not relative. All of the "stay at home" risks you list are much easier mitigated / avoided than lift queues and ski lifts.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 20-12-20 12:51; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Claude B posted this in another thread


"French police were stopping people at the border yesterday, but just warning them of the risks.

https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/societe/a-la-frontiere-douaniers-et-policiers-deconseillent-aux-vacanciers-d-aller-skier-en-suisse-1608405347.."
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Skimum1 wrote:
I agree - love to read people’s updates when they have managed to get some skiing in (within the law and quarantine rules of course). I don’t really enjoy posts making moral judgments nearly so much...


+1

I too like to hear how others are positively and constructively doing this.
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LaForet wrote:
I don't see any point in getting judgemental about whether people travel or not.


I don't mind what 'they' do providing they don't whinge when they get stuck out there, like they did back in March when it was obvious that they shouldn't have travelled. They also need to be prepared to foot the bill for any emergency assistance they might need, and for any additional repatriation costs.
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I think there's a fundamental philosophical difference in attitude here. This is by way of explanation, not criticism. For me, an exceptional situation like a pandemic is where I look for government for an absolute framework for what to do and not do. I think that a government policy of 'use your judgement' is an abrogation of responsibility and leads to people doing exactly that, when unlike the government, they don't have access to the same data and expertise, and what applies in their own locale or social circle may be unrepresentative. Or like Mr. Cummings, they justify unjustifiable actions n the basis of exceptionalism. So, of the government doesn't want us to travel abroad then it should stop us from going. Not come out with a vague recommendation not to go, and exceptions that it's OK for business people. Why is it OK for business people to travel abroad, but not citizens? Are they less likely to transmit? I know this sounds like the thin end of an authoritarian wedge. We don't want to live in a police state. If people shouldn't travel then stop travel. If shops shouldn't be open then shut them. What we have at the moment is the worst of both worlds: a recognition of the seriousness of the pandemic but an unwillingness to take the necessary countermeasures, or if they are taken, to leave it them 'till it's too late. I'd agree - we simply shouldn't be travelling for anything but essential reasons. Not to see relatives. Not to shop for Christmas presents. And not for a break, however deserved. But if the government doesn't have the will to do its job and prohibit it, then I don't expect citizens to act perfectly in such exceptional circumstances as we have at the moment: give me rules and I will follow them. This laissez-faire, Libertarian, blind optimism from the PM is the exact opposite of what we need at the moment. Worse, it simply doesn't work.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 20-12-20 13:27; edited 2 times in total
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@HilbertSpace, not cool.
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People critical of this should think back honestly to earlier in the year about whether they’ve also been critical of hiking, jogging, sunbathing, golf, walking the dog for too long etc., and ask themselves if they were wrong about all that, maybe they’re wrong about this too?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
LaForet wrote:
I think there's a fundamental philosophical difference in attitude here. This is by way of explanation, not criticism. For me, an exceptional situation like a pandemic is where I look for government for an absolute framework for what to do and not do. I think that a government policy of 'use your judgement' is an abrogation of responsibility and leads to people doing exactly that, when unlike the government, they don't have access to the same data and expertise, and what applies in their own locale or social circle may be unrepresentative. Or like Mr. Cummings, they justify unjustifiable actions n the basis of exceptionalism. So, of the government doesn't want us to travel abroad then it should stop us from going. Not come out with a vague recommendation not to go, and exceptions that it's OK for business people. Why is it OK for business people to travel abroad, but not citizens? Are they less likely to transmit? I know this sounds like the thin end of an authoritarian wedge. We don't want to live in a police state. If people shouldn't travel then stop travel. If shops shouldn't be open then shut them. What we have at the moment is the worst of both worlds: a recognition of the seriousness of the pandemic but an unwillingness to take the necessary countermeasures, or if they are taken, to leave it them 'till it's too late. I'd agree - we simply shouldn't be travelling for anything but essential reasons. Not to see relatives. Not to shop for Christmas presents. And not for a break, however deserved. But if the government doesn't have the will to do its job and prohibit it, then I don't expect citizens to act perfectly in such exceptional circumstances as we have at the moment: give me rules and I will follow them. This laissez-faire, Libertarian, blind optimism from the PM is the exact opposite of what we need at the moment. Worse, it simply doesn't work.


A very well articulated point and one which I whole heartedly agree with.
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@hold_my_biere, I can’t see any of those activities involving joining an international melting point or close proximity in ski lift queues? Sunbathing???!!!
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Definitely not cool if deliberate travel from an area that today is in Tier 4. The whole purpose if the restrictions is to stop wider transmission of the new variant, often from asymptomatic people, to the rest of the UK and further afield.

But when they return on Wednesday they will have to self-isolate for 10 (or 5) days, even from the rest of their family. So either spending Christmas alone in their rooms or risking a £10,000 fine. (And even that's assuming that France doesn't close it's borders to UK residents in the next few days!)
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>And even that's assuming that France doesn't close it's borders to UK residents in the next few days!

Perhaps today - "Other countries look set to follow as both France and Germany are “seriously” considering a halt to flights. Paris will make an official decision on Sunday and is looking for EU coordination, according to BFM TV."
https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-flight-travel-ban-uk-coronavirus-england-airports/

And Classic FM news now - Austria and Italy have banned UK travellers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Switzerland, will ban all uk flights from monday, in and out! and travellers uk at the border if driving , cant see trains being allowed either .. according to my friend that lives in Geneva all due to protecting from new corona strain as much as possible .. people are going to be stranded for sure .. no one wants us.. Sad
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@ecureuil, While I agree with the sentiment of your post, I must take exception to this
Quote:

they will have to self-isolate for 10 (or 5) days, even from the rest of their family

This is simply not correct. We returned from Spain recently and investigated the quarantine rules thoroughly. You must quarantine, but you can do so in a household with others who have not travelled, mixing normally. The others can also continue within normal tier restrictions, it is just the quarantinees who must not go out>
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
andyj007 wrote:
Switzerland, will ban all uk flights from monday, in and out! and travellers uk at the border if driving , cant see trains being allowed either .. according to my friend that lives in Geneva all due to protecting from new corona strain as much as possible .. people are going to be stranded for sure .. no one wants us.. Sad


Your friend may well be correct (I think it's probable that he is), but I haven't as yet seen any official source stating that Switzerland will ban UK flights as from Monday, watch this space as they say....
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@RobinS,
Uk gov wrote:
Stay as far away from other members of your household as possible, especially if they are clinically extremely vulnerable. Wherever possible, avoid using shared spaces such as kitchens and other living areas while others are present and take your meals back to your room to eat.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Rumor that all EU27, Norway, and Switzerland will ban UK flights, in or out.
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I think that wording only applies if you have tested positive. The guidance for the 10 days ‘quarantine’ after travel is looser than that.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A quick example of WHY doing this isn’t a great idea. A friend who is an expert skier went out to CH earlier this week, he WhatsApped me this AM to tell me he crashed on an easy slope yesterday and did tib and fib, packaged up and 2 hours of surgery to repair it. He feels like a prize muppet as he also tested Covid positive in hospital. Well done.
As someone said before, what you PLAN to do and what you DO may well be outside your control.
He feels like a total tube and goodness knows how and when we will get back.
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@orange, that should be a lesson for us all. Hopefully he is insured to cover anything the EHIC doesn't cover.
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Well...it looks like the signal from tier4 in the UK, combined with doom-laden prognostications about No Deal is causing the EU nations to haul up their drawbridges. Netherlands, Belgium, hauling like mad. And the Swiss will respond very much to domestic public sentiment...so we'll see how that goes.
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valais2 wrote:
Well...it looks like the signal from tier4 in the UK, combined with doom-laden prognostications about No Deal is causing the EU nations to haul up their drawbridges. Netherlands, Belgium, hauling like mad. And the Swiss will respond very much to domestic public sentiment...
France has just decided on a temporary ban on travel from the UK.
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" The president a few moments ago held a defense and national security council and decided to suspend traffic from the United Kingdom to France, (...) and for at least 48 hours ", declared the Minister of Transport Jean-Baptiste Djebbari on LCI.

“ Only unaccompanied freight will therefore be authorized. The flow of people or transport to the United Kingdom is not affected, "said Matignon, while a variant of the coronavirus has been discovered across the Channel, which does not seem" however " to lead, at this stage of knowledge , increased severity or resistance to the vaccine ”

“During these 48 hours, the health authorities must agree on a new testing regime in collaboration with its partners in the European Union”

The suggestion on a testing regime is promising, both in the short term and post-1 Jan.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I wonder how many French lorry drivers will want to head across, knowing they may not get back?
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I posted on another thread that I have travelled extensively (internationally) this year and with sensible measures had avoided infection - but a simple call in to the office a couple of weeks ago (4 miles from home) could have infected me thanks to half the team in the neighbouring office all going down with Covid - thankful I went nowhere near them. I've just got back from 4V and with protection measures (hire car, self catering, lots of distancing) felt much safer there than in T4 here!
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Bit more info at https://www.thelocal.fr/20201220/france-considers-suspending-flights-and-trains-from-uk-over-covid-mutation

Essentially the ban is for 48 hours during which they want to put in place testing and control measures. Looks likely that only French nationals (and presumably other EU residents returning home) will be allowed to travel from the UK

To reiterate - returning home to the UK is unaffected by the ban
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