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Is This Season Going To Happen for The British ???

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
under a new name wrote:

[b]@Handy Turnip
, "dinner" seasons Puzzled Puzzled "busier summer than winter". Depends very much how you measure it. And Morzine, afaik, doesn't? (If it does now, it's a fairly recent phenomenon). "Chamonix", I think, technically does, in terms of visitor numbers, but with e.g. lots of day trippers who don't spend a lot of money and clearly don't stay in accommodation or spend much money in nice restaurants in the evening... but all ride up and down the Aiguille du Midi. First few weeks of August can be pretty rammed - but again, accommodation rates nowhere near as high.


Fair enough - I knew it was a risk mentioning Morzine when my source was my brother rambling on over a beer!!

As for the 'dinner' seasons... oops rolling eyes
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
On the original question "Is this season going to happen for the British".......I think unfortunately it's more looking like a no......unless they manage some 3000m ice and slush in April/ May, or live in the Alps.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
iskar wrote:
Charliee wrote:
I have just heard from a very reliable source that (french) resorts will probably not open in December - clearly this is terrible new for all involved.


that was announced last night! looks like they're shut till mid jan at the earliest


It definitely appeared that way on first announcement i.e. resorts won't open this year, only Jan date Macron mentioned regarding easing restriction was 20th Jan.

However, it feels like the ski resorts are sitting outside the 3 key time lines he mentioned, as he wants to liaise with his European counterparts on having a coordinated approach. He said they'll be a further update in 10 days. I'm not saying that means it won't be a mid-Jan opening necessarily, but it sounds like it's still to be decided.
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@Handy Turnip, oh, I don't know for sure, and the last time I really examined it was 16 years ago when we were trying to decide between Chamonix and Morzine for rental apartments. So my data are not up to date. What is very clear (and welcome) is that the elusive "Four Season Destination" is the mot du jour on just about every Maire's lips (Other than, "looks about right, that'll do nicely thank you")

Autocorrect, eh? wink
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Isn't Switzerland still open to foreign arrivals with no requirement to quarantine?
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[quote="Handy Turnip"][quote="iskar"]
Charliee wrote:


However, it feels like the ski resorts are sitting outside the 3 key time lines he mentioned, as he wants to liaise with his European counterparts on having a coordinated approach. He said they'll be a further update in 10 days. I'm not saying that means it won't be a mid-Jan opening necessarily, but it sounds like it's still to be decided.


Agreed - he only said he “couldn’t see how ski resorts could open over the holidays”, no dates mentioned. But there’s clearly some very hard lobbying going on behind the scenes!

I wonder if it’s worth them opening after new year when numbers are low just to generate some income (but with restaurants etc closed) or whether they’d stay shut til after 20th when they may be able to have a fuller opening?
ski holidays
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
James77 wrote:
So what are views on paying balances, we have a few weeks yet and are booked February HT?

We could pay and take the chance we go (but will the experience this season be worth the money, its not just the skiing its quality time with the kids), cancel and write off HT or perhaps we'll pay and in the interim the TO goes under as writing off Christmas must make a huge dent in seasonal revenue.
No idea how easy it is to claim from ABTA.
Flexibility is key this season not so easy with kids at school sadly.


Are you willing to travel if FCDO restrictions are still in place at the time of your holiday? By February the quarantine may have gone altogether but you would still need to find adequate insurance. If so, the chances are the holiday could still happen so it would be worth paying the balance. If you are getting cold feet about skiing this Feb you could ask to postpone your holiday till next Feb half term. If you had paid your balance and the circumstances in Feb were that the holiday couldn't take place you would probably be entitled to a refund - but obviously check the terms with your TO.

I don't think British TOs will have been counting on Christmas/New Year being a large revenue generator this year as the expectation would have been that British families would not have been able to travel due to 14 day quarantine (only just reduced to 5 days), irrespective of French government decisions on the opening of ski resorts. People may have already shifted their holidays to later in the season.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
msej449 wrote:
Isn't Switzerland still open to foreign arrivals with no requirement to quarantine?


Yes.
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telford_mike wrote:
msej449 wrote:
Isn't Switzerland still open to foreign arrivals with no requirement to quarantine?


Yes.


but if you become ill witch covid, your insurance will not cover you & if you need a lot of care at the swiss hospitals, then your going to spend the rest of your life owing money to the Swiss healthcare system....
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James77 wrote:
So what are views on paying balances, we have a few weeks yet and are booked February HT?

We could pay and take the chance we go (but will the experience this season be worth the money, its not just the skiing its quality time with the kids), cancel and write off HT or perhaps we'll pay and in the interim the TO goes under as writing off Christmas must make a huge dent in seasonal revenue.
No idea how easy it is to claim from ABTA.
Flexibility is key this season not so easy with kids at school sadly.

What's the risk?

Pay the balance: can you get a refund? If not, do you qualify to claim insurance compensation? How much do you lose if no refund?

Not pay the balance (Cancel): Maybe no skiing. (I say "maybe". Because if resort opens again, you can book then. No idea no cost)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
It is all very depressing! I have missed only one ski season in 50 years (in New Zealand's summer in 75/76) and with advancing years it seems all the more galling if I miss this winter. Fingers crossed, although the Apres will be somewhat downbeat if I make it. Happy days at the Hinterhag in Saalbach may become a distant memory.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Mr.Egg, how do you know the Ts & Cs of their insurance cover?

@James77 - if you don't pay, you've cancelled on them and presumably you immediately write off any payments so far plus the holiday?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
champoluc unlikely to open in December..theres no snow Smile Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

Happy days at the Hinterhag in Saalbach may become a distant memory.

@Eddy, hopefully it will be business as usual at the Hinterhag next season - with an extra-celebratory atmosphere (if that’s possible. We might even see Josef Solar again, if Hyde Park’s Winter Wonderland fizzles.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Germany seeks EU deal to close ski resorts
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@tatmanstours, Here's hoping!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
under a new name wrote:
@Mr.Egg, how do you know the Ts & Cs of their insurance cover?



Because most insurance companies have already changed T&C's for new policies. There will still be a few with old annual policies taken out before Covid, but when they are up for renewal the new clauses will exist.
My annual policy changed for example :-

If a country is on the safe list at time of booking then you are covered for Covid, even if it is removed at a later date.
If a country is not on the safe list at time of booking, then you are not covered for Covid - unless it is added to the safelist for the duration of your trip.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Mr.Egg, you don't know that for sure ...
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The title to the thread needs changing to "Is This Season Going To Happen ???"
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
AFAIK if you have Barclays Travel Plus pack (they aren't accepting signups at the moment) then it covers locations that are not on the safe list at the time of booking or at the time or going for everything except cancellation/curtailment due to Covid. It does cover you if you fall ill with it, as long as you've followed local guidance.
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Having cover is one thing

Finding a hospital bed is another.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Here's another point that may become relevant....

https://www.thelocal.com/20201126/british-people-could-face-covid-19-travel-restriction-in-europe-from-january?fbclid=IwAR3W1h2jYdoDXz_sGgLVb6zu2ItmHX6gzRgJ-mSbsCEKQgnxMiTtzmdcetU

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes at the moment!?!?!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
pdsguy wrote:
Here's another point that may become relevant....

https://www.thelocal.com/20201126/british-people-could-face-covid-19-travel-restriction-in-europe-from-january?fbclid=IwAR3W1h2jYdoDXz_sGgLVb6zu2ItmHX6gzRgJ-mSbsCEKQgnxMiTtzmdcetU

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes at the moment!?!?!


I guess it depends on whether the ski resorts are even open and they want/need the British visitors or not because some resorts are heavily dependent on British tourists and others not so much so
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under a new name wrote:
@Mr.Egg, you don't know that for sure ...


Certainly the case for AXA/Lloyds. Checked a few weeks ago.
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
pdsguy wrote:
Here's another point that may become relevant....

https://www.thelocal.com/20201126/british-people-could-face-covid-19-travel-restriction-in-europe-from-january?fbclid=IwAR3W1h2jYdoDXz_sGgLVb6zu2ItmHX6gzRgJ-mSbsCEKQgnxMiTtzmdcetU

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes at the moment!?!?!


I guess it depends on whether the ski resorts are even open and they want/need the British visitors or not because some resorts are heavily dependent on British tourists and others not so much so

From that article, I don't think it has anything to do with the ski resorts, more to travel within the EU, and if outside countries are allowed to enter.
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We will be an 'outside' country!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
biddpyat wrote:
VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
pdsguy wrote:
Here's another point that may become relevant....

https://www.thelocal.com/20201126/british-people-could-face-covid-19-travel-restriction-in-europe-from-january?fbclid=IwAR3W1h2jYdoDXz_sGgLVb6zu2ItmHX6gzRgJ-mSbsCEKQgnxMiTtzmdcetU

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes at the moment!?!?!


I guess it depends on whether the ski resorts are even open and they want/need the British visitors or not because some resorts are heavily dependent on British tourists and others not so much so

From that article, I don't think it has anything to do with the ski resorts, more to travel within the EU, and if outside countries are allowed to enter.


That is correct but ski resorts that rely on British custom would soon be complaining wouldn’t they so they would be putting pressure on their local governments upwards.
Ski resorts open-pressure on to allow British tourists in
Ski resorts closed-no immediate pressure
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Gosh I hope something gets sorted so that February skiing doesn’t go down the drain too.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ed123 wrote:
Having cover is one thing

Finding a hospital bed is another.

Catching Covid AND needing hospital stay is rather less likely.

But having a ski injury and NOT finding a hospital bed maybe a concern?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Interview in "Der Spiegel" with Austria's tourism minister yesterday, explaining the rationale behind Austria's intention to open its ski resorts before Christmas:
https://www.spiegel.de/reise/europa/oesterreich-tourismusministerin-das-virus-holt-man-sich-nicht-auf-der-piste-a-38f55482-d30b-44ff-b05c-ac36ebb0cd35

Austria's Minister of Tourism on the winter season
"I'm not at all afraid of being infected there"
When can the ski lifts start up again? Angela Merkel calls for the winter sports areas to be closed. Austria's Minister of Tourism, Elisabeth Köstinger, doesn't think so - the vacation in her country is safe.
An interview by Claus Hecking • November 27, 2020, 1:17 a.m.

SPIEGEL: Minister, you and your Chancellor Sebastian Kurz promised in September that there would be "skiing fun" this winter. Would you still say that despite soaring infection numbers and a new lockdown with curfews, schools and business closings?

Elisabeth Köstinger: We will do everything we can to ensure that the number of infections falls and that a winter holiday in Austria is possible. I assume that we can do this with a joint effort. Tourism is indispensable for all of Austria, especially for the rural regions. And we showed in the summer: Holidays in Austria are safe.

SPIEGEL: Chancellor Angela Merkel has doubts about that. She calls for the Europe-wide closure of all ski areas.

Köstinger: I can't get anything out of this approach. That is also not a European responsibility. I don't know on what legal basis the EU should order the closure of ski areas. Apart from that, Austria is taking all measures to enable safe holidays. You don't get the virus on the slopes, but when you party afterwards. That's why there won't be any après-ski this year.

SPIEGEL: How do you want to ensure that a skiing holiday in Austria is safe?

Köstinger: By eliminating all sources of danger. There are comprehensive concepts for the winter season that guarantee this security. Our Ministry of Health has carried out detailed cluster analyzes of previous infections. In the hotel and catering industry, the incidence of infections was very low. Most cases occur where people know each other well: in the family environment and in the leisure sector. We also have the largest free trial program for hotel and tourism employees in Europe . More than 500,000 tests have now been carried out. Before Christmas we will test the population all over Austria.

SPIEGEL: But last March, thousands of ski tourists in Austria were infected with the virus. You can't afford a second Ischgl .

Köstinger: We couldn't afford the first Ischgl either. But we all learned something new in dealing with the corona pandemic.

"The situation in gondolas is no different from that in a subway or tram."
SPIEGEL: What if the neighbor coughs in the gondola or in the bubble chair lift?

Köstinger: 85 percent of all lifts are open anyway, in the fresh air. The covers of the chairlifts are partly removed, partly they cannot be closed. And wearing mouth and nose protection is mandatory in all lifts. The situation in gondolas is no different than in a subway or tram. The operators are instructed to always ensure fresh air supply. And there is no cable car in Austria that takes longer than 15 minutes to travel. The risk of infection is low.

SPIEGEL: Images recently went through the social networks. In Austrian ski areas such as the Zillertal or Kaunertal glacier, they showed crowds of tourists crowding in front of cable car stations.

Köstinger: These pictures from the Zillertal and Kaunertal were catastrophic. We held intensive discussions with the cable car operators so that this would not happen again. The operators have comprehensive prevention concepts that they also implement. There are floor markings and disinfectant dispensers everywhere at the entry and exit points. And on the following weekend, these scenes no longer existed: because the health authorities and the police took over control on site. The cable car companies learned quickly - and so did the skiers. We trust that after nine months of the pandemic, people will have internalized the rules.

SPIEGEL: But what if some don't follow the rules?

Köstinger: Every cable car company has its Corona officer. There will be security services at critical points, and police or cable car employees will also take over supervision.

SPIEGEL: How should that work with food - in deep winter, in closed rooms?

"We don't give France any advice on when it can reopen the Louvre."
Köstinger: With 50 or more guests, every company has to present a prevention concept. These include: regular ventilation, sufficient space, strict rules at the buffet. Employees and guests must wear mouth and nose protection and guests are only allowed to take off their masks at the table.

SPIEGEL: Then they can still infect each other.
Köstinger: You can do that in other places within your group. Personal responsibility is required here. Our concept prevents the different groups from infecting each other. You know: in the summer we had an eruption on Lake Wolfgang. This cluster mainly affected young employees. It was able to be completely contained within a very short time without many visitors being infected. We carried out thousands of tests on site - and had extremely fast contact person management. That worked extremely well.

SPIEGEL: What have you prepared in case there is an outbreak in a ski resort?

Köstinger: If guests need health care, it will of course be made available to them anyway. The tourist regions have agreed on a system of "safe houses" for milder developments. That means: Special accommodations are provided in which the corona infected are accommodated. They can no longer infect each other. This is how we ensure maximum security for everyone involved. In consultation with the German health authorities, infected people can also be brought home without symptoms.

SPIEGEL: The restaurateurs have invested a lot of time and money in their new concepts. Nevertheless, they had to close in early November, in the second lockdown.

Köstinger: My heart bleeds that we had to close the catering and hotel tourism business even though they did everything to create maximum security. But we had to restrict contacts, and the exit restrictions from 8 p.m. to 6 a.m. are taking a large part of its business away from the catering trade. It was important to me to compensate the companies as much as possible for the failures. We replace them up to 80 percent of their turnover. And the strict measures now open up prospects for the winter season.

SPIEGEL: But what if the season is cancelled or starts late, as the governments of Germany, France and Italy are calling for?

Köstinger : We don't give France any advice as to when it can open the Louvre again. Nor do we prescribe in Italy or Germany when cafes, restaurants or schools can reopen. Each country should make its own decision based on its infection rate. The EU Commission has now made it clear that it does not intend to regulate this across Europe.

SPIEGEL: What do you do if the number of infections does rise again in January after the lockdown is lifted?

Köstinger: It is clear that we will have to prepare for tough, difficult months, not just in Austria, but throughout Europe. We will do everything we can to ensure that the number of infections remains down - with strict hygiene concepts and more personnel.

SPIEGEL: How much tourism do you expect this winter?

Köstinger: We now expect a slump of up to 50 percent compared to normal years. That's a problem. The hotel industry in Austria has only eight percent equity base.

SPIEGEL: How do you intend to prevent companies from going bankrupt en masse?

Köstinger: We provide guarantees for loans, hourly taxes, offer fixed cost subsidies, and short-time work for employees. We have reduced the sales tax for restaurants and hotels to five percent. And we offer the companies a reimbursement of 80 percent of the turnover compared to the same period in 2019. In the holiday hotel industry, the majority of the companies will make it: with massive support from the state. How big the support has to be depends on the number of visitors.

SPIEGEL: What does it depend on how many guests come?

"The risk of getting infected in a hotel in Hamburg is no smaller or greater than in a hotel in Serfaus."

Köstinger: Almost half of the visitors come from Germany. The quarantine requirement for returnees from Austria currently applies there. The greatest risk of infection comes from acquaintances - not from the hotel industry, where people wear masks and keep their distance. The risk of getting infected in a hotel in Hamburg is no smaller or greater than in a hotel in Serfaus in Tyrol . In my opinion, it would be key here to enable the most free. That means: If you come from Austria, a negative PCR test should be sufficient and you don't have to be in quarantine for days.

SPIEGEL: Virologists would disagree: In some patients in the early stages, the tests show no infection. Do you expect the German authorities to be convinced of your argument?

Köstinger: I believe that we need to deal with the corona pandemic differently. Of course, measures such as wearing mouth and nose protection, keeping your distance and maintaining hygiene are necessary. But I believe that quick tests will be a real game changer. We use them to filter out super spreaders very quickly. You know, we are the only country in the world that regularly tests employees in the hotel and catering industry. In the summer, we were able to isolate employees who tested positive very quickly, and the virus did not spread.

SPIEGEL: Will you go skiing yourself this coming winter?

Köstinger: Definitely . I'm not at all afraid of getting infected there. Distance, mouth and nose protection and hygiene concepts ensure maximum safety; there is no après-ski. And you don't get the virus out skiing. I'm looking forward to skiing fun.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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tatmanstours wrote:


SPIEGEL: Will you go skiing yourself this coming winter?

Köstinger: Definitely . I'm not at all afraid of getting infected there. Distance, mouth and nose protection and hygiene concepts ensure maximum safety; there is no après-ski. And you don't get the virus out skiing. I'm looking forward to skiing fun.


Hands...Face...Space...the concept that worked so well in September in the UK...until it exploded into a second wave in the northern half of the country...Leicester, Manchester, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Hull, etc!!

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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The critical difference being no après-ski. There was a binary choice of schools/universities go back and closing the pubs. Instead both where done and it went pear shaped. Then of course there are far to many people are not following the rules in particular like the stupid bitch at my nieces school in Liverpool who decided to despite having a positive test she wanted to see her friends so went in anyway with predictable results. The rot set in when the idiot Johnson didn't sack Cumming in April. Then again it appears if you are connected the rules don't apply, see lack of planning permission and no council tax paid on the property he stayed in with no enforcement or fines.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@jabuzzard, no need for misogynist language like that thanks about a child. No matter how reprehensible her conduct.
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Skimum1 wrote:
@jabuzzard, no need for misogynist language like that thanks about a child. No matter how reprehensible her conduct.


Agree.

If you feel other's are on the same wavelength here jabuzzard, then you're mistaken.
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Quote:

no need for misogynist language like that thanks about a child

+2 I had to go back over that post, thinking to myself "Is he talking about a child?".
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Quote:


@jabuzzard, no need for misogynist language like that thanks about a child. No matter how reprehensible her conduct.

I suspect that it may have been a euphemism for a stronger word, designed to avoid Snowheads’ ingenious technological means of automatically converting such words into other euphemisms.
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Being denied skiing is disappointing BUT the damage being done to the ski industry right down to the shops, cleaners , all suppliers etc should be our main concern
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
susieski wrote:
Being denied skiing is disappointing BUT the damage being done to the ski industry right down to the shops, cleaners , all suppliers etc should be our main concern


Yes, the main focus here seems to be woe that middle class white Brits can't go have their bash on the slopes to talk billocks.

I would love to be able to go skiing but we are not too bothered if rules prevent us but I do feel desperately sorry for those who rely on skiing for their income, its a horribly short period to make 12 months income. I wish them all the best.
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susieski wrote:
Being denied skiing is disappointing BUT the damage being done to the ski industry right down to the shops, cleaners , all suppliers etc should be our main concern


Of course it's not only the ski related businesses in the resorts that are affected, UK based ski related businesses such as bootfitters have also been hit very hard by the two lockdowns. Sad
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Alastair Pink wrote:
susieski wrote:
Being denied skiing is disappointing BUT the damage being done to the ski industry right down to the shops, cleaners , all suppliers etc should be our main concern


Of course it's not only the ski related businesses in the resorts that are affected, UK based ski related businesses such as bootfitters have also been hit very hard by the two lockdowns. Sad


People do have sympathy with headline industries but they often forget about the supply chain that sits behind the industry. Travel, skiing, servies, the supply chains are devastated and many will never recover.
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