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Ski instructor affiliate qualification

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi all.

I don't want to be a full time ski instructor because I have a job I'm not leaving. However, I would like to take part in a full ski instructor course because I want to learn the latest up to date instruction. That way if someone asks advice I can pass on the proper advice.

The thing that puts me off is the courses are intended for someone who wants to work in a ski school and therefore can use the 35 hours learning about customer care, booking systems etc. Before they can progress to the next level. I already do things like that in my job.

Is there such a course? EG BASI or similar where you can do the levels without being a ski instructor. Eh BASI affiliate.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You can do the Level 1 course without any pre-requirements, and then not bother with the other requirements to get the licence such as 35-hour ski school experience, 1st aid, child protection, etc. You won't be able to proceed to BASI or IASI level 2 courses without those requirements. Not sure about other systems such as CASI or the Austrian qualifications.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@rob@rar, yep that is the problem. I do all that is required but just not in a ski school. I could volunteer at a dome on a Saturday or Sunday but I feel I would be doing someone out of a job.

I could always join the local ski club and help out there.
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Child protection I've done when teaching in university. Customer care, booking systems etc I've done and also devised in the past.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
@rob@rar, yep that is the problem. I do all that is required but just not in a ski school. I could volunteer at a dome on a Saturday or Sunday but I feel I would be doing someone out of a job.
The "ski school experience" can be all based on shadowing other instructors (which is actually extremely valuable), no need to do anything else, and certainly not doing anyone out of a job. I love having a shadow.

Child protection is now an online course. 1st aid is a two day course, and I guess is helpful in its open right. You can get exceptions from the 1st aid requirement I believe, or demonstrate you already hold a current qualification which is relevant.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@GlasgowCyclops, Most (of not all) L1s will be part time working on dryslopes or domes. The L1 course is specifically targetted at people like you. It's only a week. I recently did a L2 tele, and after 30 years of ski teaching, some of that content grated a bit -- but I also learnt new stuff too Very Happy
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@ski, @rob@rar, thanks all. I've always got loads of holiday to use up so I plan on doing the L1 then I'll do the 35hours shadowing.

My wife just said. Go figure r it and in a couple of years stop working and become a ski instructor.

Sounds like a plan Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Even if you don't plan to be a instructor now, you may well find you enjoy it so much you can't stop. Good luck!
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@GlasgowCyclops, would you not, perhaps, be better off getting in a good few hours of private instruction on your own skiing??

L1 does not appear (to me at least) to really teach you skiing to any sort of competent* level.

And with a good few hours private, with someone good, a. your own skiing may improve, b. you'll be able to ask what you should be suggesting to others.

Plus, ultimately, the best advice seems to me to be "go get some lessons".

* edit - I have my own opinion on competent ... he heh heh


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 24-08-20 18:10; edited 2 times in total
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:

ultimately, the best advice seems to me to be "go get some lessons".


+1 if you just want to improve your skiing. Money well spent if it’s a good instructor. Then do instructor course afterwards.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@under a new name, I always take lessons when I'm on a bash. You can always learn new things. This is so I'm in a better position to pass on the knowledge knowing it is correct. Happy

I've lined up a BASI 1 and I'll do number 2 later so I can teach friends kids properly.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@AL9000, the instruction is usually thode from ski school Arabba.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
You can do the Level 1 course without any pre-requirements, and then not bother with the other requirements to get the licence such as 35-hour ski school experience, 1st aid, child protection, etc. You won't be able to proceed to BASI or IASI level 2 courses without those requirements. Not sure about other systems such as CASI or the Austrian qualifications.


You'll need 70 hours to proceed to Basi L2... which of course you know but isn't clear from your post.

70 hours shadowing is quite a lot.... guess it depends who you shadow.

The 2 day first aid seems a bit OTT - The French system requires PSC1 which is a day course and even that is stretching what you can reasonably do in the field.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
davidof wrote:

The 2 day first aid seems a bit OTT - The French system requires PSC1 which is a day course and even that is stretching what you can reasonably do in the field.


BASI require 12 hours or 2 days of first aid which is lower than most UK outdoor qualifications with exceptions like the Climbing Wall leader award. That reflects the fact that climbing walls and indoor slopes have easier access to medical help. So a BASI instructor needs less than a guide, mountain leader, paragliding instructor or mountaineering instructor.

It's just that BASI also require a course with outdoor specific content which means that while there's a regulated activity first aid course of the right length it would not meet the BASI requirement. So mostly people do the usual 16 hour award.

Most UK awards need 16 hours of first aid which meets the Institute of Outdoor Learning requirement for a band 3 course which is defined (in part) as for "Self-reliant outdoor activity instructors, teachers or leaders and outdoor learning specialists operating in situations where a number of hazards may be present or help may be up to a few hours away,". Band three courses need to be delivered by people with qualification as first aid trainers who also have outdoor competence which usually means holding professional awards.

In UK terms this is a working environment and although HSE don't regulate Outdoor First Aid they do regulate workplaces. An Emergency First Aid at Work (EFAW) would be a basic workplace level which is one day long. The next level is First Aid at Work (FAW) which is three days and a two-day refresh every three years. The learning outcomes of EFAW and a FAW refresh are contained in a band 3 Outdoor course. Strictly how first aid cover and training is provided is a matter for an employer but there are standards.

If BASI, or any other UK NGB, did less than an EFAW there would be some real issues with HSE and insurance.

So not OTT, just consistent with HSE requirements and a very good UK understanding of first aid requirements.

While some French awards do less first aid, both initially and on their refresh, you shouldn't assume that either that's OK or that most don't do a lot more. Many other countries do a lot more with joint training with SAR for example.

https://swissmountainleader.com/first-aid-training/outdoor-first-aid/ that looks like the kind of thing, top quality at a great price Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
ise wrote:


https://swissmountainleader.com/first-aid-training/outdoor-first-aid/ that looks like the kind of thing, top quality at a great price Happy


That's an interesting course.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
davidof wrote:
You'll need 70 hours to proceed to Basi L2... which of course you know but isn't clear from your post.
Indeed, you require 35 hours of shadowing to complete the L1 qualification, and then a further 35 hours of shadowing before you do the L2 course. I only mentioned the initial 35 hours as it's possible to do the L1 course without any of the extra stuff including those first 35 hours. The course by itself would provide an introduction to teaching skiing which is what I understood GlasgowCyclops was interested in, at least in part, without the requirements of the other stuff. If the ambition is to go on to higher level qualifications, all the providers in the UK (BASI, IASI, SSE, SSS) require additional elements beyond the actual course.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:
If the ambition is to go on to higher level qualifications, all the providers in the UK (BASI, IASI, SSE, SSS) require additional elements beyond the actual course.


I wonder, if he just wants to do some amateur teaching if the SSS route wouldn't be better adapted?

I know someone who worked all last winter in Chamonix who has SSE only, how they didn't get noticed I don't know. They are hoping to FT through the BASI programme now.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 25-08-20 9:59; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
davidof wrote:
I wonder, if he just wants to do some amateur teaching if the SSS route wouldn't be better adapted?
I don't know much about SSS, but the SSE qualifications are a good option if that's why someone wants to do the qualification.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
rob@rar wrote:
davidof wrote:
I wonder, if he just wants to do some amateur teaching if the SSS route wouldn't be better adapted?
I don't know much about SSS, but the SSE qualifications are a good option if that's why someone wants to do the qualification.


I mentioned SSS because the OP is S based and if I'd mentioned E it could be seen a insensitive but yes, it does seem to fit his needs better.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@davidof, I've signed p for L1 BASI. Is SSS the scottish one. I searched for that but didnt see it because I didnt know what it was called.

Now searched for SSS and found this https://snowsportscotland.org/courses-qualifications/
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
@davidof, I've signed p for L1 BASI. Is SSS the scottish one. I searched for that but didnt see it because I didnt know what it was called.

Now searched for SSS and found this https://snowsportscotland.org/courses-qualifications/


that's it, they have quite an extensive range of training including off piste, for someone not wanting to go the full L4 Pro route it might be an alternative but like Rob I know little about SSS, if someone who works with them would like to comment?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@GlasgowCyclops, “ You can always learn new things.” So very correct, and I hope I didn’t come across as suggesting you were anything other than an “every day is a school day” kind of person Happy

“This is so I'm in a better position to pass on the knowledge knowing it is correct.” I’m just not sure I understand this. Some things change rapidly enough that I’d question whether a one shot course would be adequately useful? Especially a fairly basic one like BASI 1.

I’m still thinking that a few days with a truly good coach would be a. More fun and b. More useful.

Just sayin’ Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
IASI only require 20 hours of shadowing at L1 and they have a link up with SSS if you want to start with SSS and proceed further towards a mountain based license later
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@under a new name, Not at all. I'm always happy to get advice. And your's was great advice. Lessons Happy
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@skimottaret, Yes the merging of routes is complex for a novice. I've signed up to BASI so I will do that for L1. Then decide what to do later.

The main thing I would like to do in the future is to help out and properly teach some friends' kids. Or be offering the correct advice to someone if I see them struggling somewhere while out and about.

Now I can do this without a qualification, but having the qualification will allow me to provide a better assessment of what to advise.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@GlasgowCyclops, ah sorry missed your post saying you were doing BASI, a good course with like minded skiers which will do loads for your personal performance. Learning the correct way to teach friends and family is a very useful part of the qualification, if not a stated aim, and is what a lot of L1's end up doing without finishing all the other bits (my personal opinion is that a 2 day first aid course at L1 is overkill as well as >20 hours shadowing)

Bon chance and enjoy...
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I've worked at good and bad ski schools in the US. Bad ones only train their instructors in what they will be teaching. Good ones train the instructors in advanced techniques that the public will never learn.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@skimottaret, Signed top for one but had to move to a different course because of potential quarantine (was working in a French Hospital for 2 days). Then the one in the snow dome was changed because of Covid.

Back to square 1 Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Personally I think I probably learned as much or more about teaching from the shadowing/ teaching hours after L1 than the course itself, and on L2 it was quite clear who had skimped on the shadowing/ teaching between L1 and L2 and who had some experience. Be warned, it is addictive though, there was a guy on my L2 who was clear that he was only there for personal development and was never going to actually teach. I bumped into him last season on his fourth week teaching in Pila.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@GlasgowCyclops, might be an idea in that case to review SSS entry level course. Unless things have changed they did a deal with IASI to allow SSS courses to be fully recognised and as a pathway to an Alpine based qualification. You could do your SSS assistant instructor then Instructor on a dry slope and then IF you wanted to proceed to L2 you could do with IASI as your SSS Instructor license would be mutually recognised. The BASI / SSS relationship blew up under Andy Lockerbie (like a lot of good things under his tenure) now that he is gone might be worth checking in with BASI to see if they have any new agreements in place but typically BASI do not recognise other associations levels and will only grant you a level below, not any good if you are an L1 !

https://iasisnowsports.ie/education/sss-iasi/

Personally I think the shadowing/mentoring is done much better through the home nations ( I have mentored SSE coaches as an SSE L4) and IASI have a slightly better way of splitting the shadowing hour requirements 20/50 vs 35 /35.

For me if you are only interested in going to L2 and not to L3/4 the SSS IASI would be an excellent way forward with a lower commitment in terms of hours / £££'s to start with..
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Iasi has the big advantage of being recognized in the EU next year
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