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BASI or Austrian qualifications?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Powder Pete, I did some training with Inside Out before taking my first BASI courses and it was invaluable. They do a series of "Instructor Fast Track" sessions over the summer:

http://www.insideoutskiing.com/uk/fasttrack.html

It would certainly be a relatively inexpensive way to find out where you are and what you need to work on. I also did some training with Snowsport England before taking any BASI courses, and again it was both inexpensive and very useful, if you have a club near you that offer that kind of instructor training.

Personally I preferred the "occasional lessons at slopes in the UK" approach as I have to work to pay for it so can't spend a few months training in the mountains. If that kind of block training is a realistic option for you then go for it, although it was those who had done a gap course, and spent the kind of money you're talking about, but then failed their L2 that I felt particularly sorry for. One point worth noting though is that a large part of the BASI system (particularly at L1 and L2) is about teaching beginners rather than personal high-end skiing performance. You will spend a large part of the course on nursery slopes showing perfect snowploughs and the progression to parallel skiing. My guess is the kind of tuition you'd get in a resort would be much more about improving your high-end skiing rather than improving your snowplough on the nursery slopes, and so may not be ideal preparation. I.e. you might want to get training that is "instructor" focused, and ideally with some experience of the system you are aiming for.

Skiing in a snowdome can be boring if you've not got a focus, but a nursery slope is a nursery slope and if I am doing endless runs to practice my snowplough in some sense I'd rather be indoors rather than have the temptation to be off skiing the mountain. You have to enjoy the teaching beginners side of things to take it further, but you'll find out if that is something you like as you get more experience.

As to the differences between trainers from different countries, take a look at the videos of the Interski congress. They include videos of each country demonstrating their skiing. I remember seeing one with Derek Tate from IASI narrating and highlighting some of the differences which was particularly useful. They do all show a unique style, and some will have a preference for one over another, but they are all to a very high standard so I don't think you need to worry about that when choosing a teaching system to progress through.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

Just a thought but, assuming you want the best qualification you can get rather than the easiest, looking at the results from Pyeongchang it appears the Austrian system is probably superior to the BASI system. https://www.pyeongchang2018.com/en/game-time/results/OWG2018/en/alpine-skiing/daily-schedule.htm


That would be race coaching, which is rather different to ski-school type instruction, and to a large extent the results will reflect the organisation of racing and race training within each country rather than the merits of their coaching systems. If you're interested in being a race coach then there is a whole different track of training to consider. Many race coaches will also be qualified instructors, but you can progress through the coaching programs without first taking instructor qualifications from someone like BASI.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Mind you, if I was fully CSIA'd, I'm not sure I'd be looking to work in a snowdome.

lol
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@kieranm, they've all got to start somewhere wink
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
These Austrian courses are a little more expensive than some of the other counties but are available and are tested in English.

http://www.snowsports.at/index.php/de/kursprogrammdesktop/199-austrian-landeslehrer-alpine-course-ski-snowboard-kitzsteinhorn
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@flangesax, but if I'm reading correctly a level 3 qualification from another country is one of the entry requirements....
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
It depends where you start!...

Anwaerter requires nothing but tidy skiing.
Landeslehrer 1 requires Anwaerter or any entry cert (BASI 2 etc...)
Landeslehrer 2 requires Landeslehrer 1.
Landesehrer/Alpin requires Landeslehrer 1.

Landes 2 has the speed tests.
The Alpin course is an off piste and mountain safety module.
After completion of these courses then you have Landeslehrer 2 (a 'complying' ISIA qualification.... politics, politics...)

If you include a second sport then you can progress more easily to the Level 4 "Staatliche" qualification.... yeah good luck with that... this is the one required to open a ski school!

This is a nice breakdown (the Anwaerter Level 1+2 is basically to make BASI people understand that it is the equivalent of BASI 1+2).

http://www.snowsports.at/index.php/en/component/content/article/13-english-category/158-zumskilehrer-en?Itemid=456
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@kieranm, The trainers presumably started by teaching beginners.
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@Gordyjh, not necessarily. I was on a course this year with a guy who was a coach at national team level but had recently decided to get instructor qualifications too. He'd done BASI L1 and was prepping for a resit of L2. He was a good skier, but entirely geared to high performance skiing rather than what we would teach beginners / recreational skiiers.
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@Tubaski, really? That would be somewhat worrying if a L3 coach can’t pass L2 teach tech....!
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flangesax wrote:
These Austrian courses are a little more expensive than some of the other counties but are available and are tested in English.

http://www.snowsports.at/index.php/de/kursprogrammdesktop/199-austrian-landeslehrer-alpine-course-ski-snowboard-kitzsteinhorn


I did my Anwärter with the Dutch company that's working with snowsports.at above (they are Vienna snowsports, and they now market exactly the same courses)

Worth noting (at least ) the Kitz courses are half board and include skipass. The hotel is basic, so is the food... But really it's fine.

You don't need to speak much German to pass the course, but at least when I did the course, much of it was taught in German, so I wouldn't recommend going this route if you don't understand basic German.

If you do... It can be significantly less expensive and time consuming than BASI, as there is very much less focus on teaching and learning to teach by shadowing.

Austrian ski schools will employ you, often even on a failed Anwärter course, though don't expect any miracles on salary (I earned a hell of a lot more in Switzerland than the union agreement covering instructors in Austria listed in the course book)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I just want to add something here.
For the Landes 2, you have to do a GS for time (one instructor sets a time and you need o be faster than his time + 8 percent). That is basically impossible without race training. So he needs to train hard, that once or twice per week ski school training is not enough. On the other hand, Landes 1 + 2 transform your skiing into a whole new galaxy.
Yes, it is technically true, that without the alpine course you can't take your groups off the slopes, however, no ski school obeys this law.

I have got a question myself: What is better to work in the US: 1. Austrian anwärter 2. come there with no degree and ski school say that you can do the level 1 in the beginning of December. My dream resorts are 1. Jackson Hole 2. Alta/Snowbird or 3. Squaw Valley. And is it even possible to work there as a German? Otherwise, I would ask the same question about Canada. Thank you all!!!
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Even if the trainers don’t need beginners instructors’ qualifications, the kids will have been taught by those instructors in the first place and learned the basic skills that led to them becoming the best in the world. I would still reckon Austrian qualifications are better than the rest.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Tubaski, which country was he coaching? tha ka
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kieranm wrote:
Quote:

I didn't imagine training courses would be stressful. What makes you say that?


Personal experience! I've done a lot of BASI courses and I've never gone on a course until I felt I was confident I was at the standard, but there are always changes I've needed to make to pass, and a limited time to do it. The BASI approach is that the course is both training and assessment in one. Plenty of good skiers fail these courses if they aren't able to make the necessary changes in time. Knowing half way through that you're not at the standard for a particular bit, but we have to move on to the next bit, and perhaps only limited opportunity to revisit the bit you need to work on, and being aware how much time/money you've spent on the course and how frustrating it would be to have to repeat it, can make for a stressful experience. That's not to say the whole week is like that - they are also enjoyable.


I accidentally can't across this thread and thought I'd update. So a few years on and you were totally right about the stresses involved in exams. I went and got the Austrian Anwarter and part way through I was thinking should have done BASI. The language element of it massively adds to the stress and there was pretty much no German teaching - just online notes. There was way more German and it was way harder than I was told to expect when booking. It also creates quite a barrier to progression as the language gets in the way.

I did manage to work a season and a bit after my qualification which has helped a lot with my ski and teaching development. The pay in Austria is absolutely dreadful though so I'm moving country. I haven't taught in German once despite many ski schools requiring it. Just as well as I don't speak any!

Anyway I've decided to switch systems. This year I'm training for BASI level 3 and going to sit the level 2 exam towards the start of the season. Can't wait to be back to learning in my native language! I did think about doing the Canadian system but work visas seem impossible if you're over 30 so there's not really any point. BASI is big in Switzerland and France so that's my plan of action for the future.
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The ski instructor podcast recently did an episode with a guy who runs a school in Kaprun, it went into very great detail about the Austrian qualification system and what each level entails.
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Powder Pete wrote:
BASI is big in Switzerland and France so that's my plan of action for the future.


Mrs telford_mike works for these guys. Good employer and recommended.

https://www.altitudeskischool.com/
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Roguevfr wrote:
The ski instructor podcast recently did an episode with a guy who runs a school in Kaprun, it went into very great detail about the Austrian qualification system and what each level entails.


Oh yes I know Andy - skied with him on the last day of the season before we got turfed out of Austria. I'll have to check the rest of that episode out. I only made it as far as the cats and dogs. Yes Altitude are a huge employer in Switzerland. I know one of two people that have worked for them. Covid permitting I'll be in Verbier this season. Totally dreading a 10 day quarantine!
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Powder Pete wrote:
Totally dreading a 10 day quarantine!


We are doing a 14 day U.K. quarantine at the moment to visit the folks. Then another 10 when we get back to CH next month. Suck it up buttercup!
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24 days is grim. At least you have a quarantine partner. I'll be in solitary confinement in an apartment i've never been to and a country I don't know. I did read they were trialling airport testing in October in Zurich so perhaps in November there might be some progress with that. If anything the situation is getting worse rather than better though.
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Powder Pete wrote:
If anything the situation is getting worse rather than better though.


Absolutely correct. Yesterday all bars were closed in our canton (Bern). I wonder whether this is a desperate attempt to save the winter season.
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https://planetski.eu/2020/10/22/sharp-spike-in-covid-19-cases-in-switzerland/?fbclid=IwAR0pC3gVNn2Y2BjLg0J_X6IoImwS3NBe0y_8dCvxVB1kLlr5ynSf9jSbyjY

I believe some ski training camps have already been suspended in Jura. How is it that Switzerland have only just introduced "making masks mandatory in all enclosed public spaces, including train stations, airports, shops, museums, restaurants, and churches"? Judging by the graph it makes last season look like nothing.
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I think the relaxation of restrictions over the summer went too far. We went from an almost total lockdown to normality, and everyone assumed the pandemic was over. Some of the restrictions that we now have (e.g. masks in shops) go much further than those we had in spring. Our federal political system doesn’t help either - the cantons wait for the government to act, and the government expects the cantons to decide what’s appropriate. Right now the cantons are ahead of the government, but I expect this will change next week and we'll be back to national measures again.
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Interesting. Is it likely that national measures will be harsher and close ski lifts and ski training camps?
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It'll be interesting to see. They were certainly quick enough to close everything down in March. The Italians have just closed their resorts, which may be a clue.
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Seems like the the writing is on the wall. I've just found the Italy news.
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