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Need slow skis

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Angelovski wrote:

Here are the stats, I am 182cm tall, weight 85kg,
and skis are: Völkl Racetiger, 173cm long, tail-98, waist-67, tip-114, radius 16,4.

I hope this helps.

Boot-ski mismatch? What boots you're wearing?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Old Fartbag, probably.

I don't think Stenmark got where he is today by "skarving". I think it has to be known as "pivarving"
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
under a new name wrote:
@Old Fartbag, probably.

I don't think Stenmark got where he is today by "skarving". I think it has to be known as "pivarving"

Definitely.

I knew we agreed!

Anyway, any of us that managed to stay alive on 2m planks from yesteryear deserve some kind of award....now to be known as a "Gold Pivarving Medal".
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@Old Fartbag, Indeed. Well, anytime you find yourself in a hostelry near me, I shall be delighted to present you with yours and celebrate with a well earned libation snowHead snowHead
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
under a new name wrote:
Have a look here,
http://youtube.com/v/n4hDi6Dzrqs,
Thanks for the link, worth repeating on this page just for the joy of watching Stenmark ski Happy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
I wonder how many self-styled "powderhounds" on their namby-pamby fat skis could ski bottomless powder on those 2m narrow planks? Toofy Grin

(I couldn't in case you were wondering Laughing )
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Yoda wrote:
I wonder how many self-styled "powderhounds" on their namby-pamby fat skis could ski bottomless powder on those 2m narrow planks? Toofy Grin

(I couldn't in case you were wondering Laughing )

It took me nearly 20 years to get to SCGB Silver level for Off Piste - and then they changed the rules. Toofy Grin
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@rob@rar, lovely isn't it?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque wrote:
@Angelovski, You don't need slower skis, just better skills. Admittedly some nice soft noodles will help and quicken the learning process and as above, go and rent some . . . AS LONG AS YOU GO AND GET SOME DECENT TUITION WITH THEM! 3 or 4 weeks just might find yourself really enjoying the Racetigers. But the biggest issue is having the confidence in your skills to relax into your skis. Excess speed on snow can be achieved and perceived on anything from a World Cup race ski to yer bum onna bin bag as la Folie Douce kicks you out.
Looking at your stats you should be well capable of driving the Völkls, you just need the skills to do so.
Hire and school and once you learn to feel the bite and carve of your hire skis, start to use the Tigers.
Have a great winter Toofy Grin


Mostly agree with this.
Gravity is your friend, finish your turns and you will have consistent and controllable speed even on the most racy of race skis
However some skis are a bit easier to get locked on an edge, carve, and therefore be more efficient and get you going faster (which at some point, might be what you want!). Some skis are as @Masque noted softer and more forgiving so easier to initiate a turn and pivot the skis which makes it easier to make and complete your turns, and therefore as indicated above, for you to control your speed and direction. Slightly wider skis make it a bit easier to be subtle on the edges


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 16-10-20 18:19; edited 1 time in total
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Old Fartbag wrote:
@under a new name, (Apologies to the OP for the detour)

It's taken from an article explaining the "new" ski shape and how to start carving for the uninitiated - so not in the context of racing.

I agreed with your description of Skarving - which is what Stenmark is doing. You cannot do a "pure" carve that starts with a pivot....even if the important element is.

It was the "limits of the equipment" that led to my pedantic argument in the first place.

I think we are really in agreement and are just arguing for the sake of it. Toofy Grin


And continuing the thread drift... wink
If you watch a current world cup skier, they are often not pure carving either - at least not for the first part of the turn because if they did they would never make it round the steep gates with large offsets - so you see the "almost pivot", slam the edges (though probably much more subtle and complex than slamming!) and carve the rest of the turn - pretty impressive!
See another American demonstrating GS (good shot at about 55s):
http://youtube.com/v/fZ_I7fERP6I

@Angelovski,
Just don't do what Ted Ligety's doing, and you'll not go as fast as as him - easy! wink


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Fri 16-10-20 18:27; edited 3 times in total
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
under a new name wrote:
@rob@rar, lovely isn't it?
Poetry.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Someone asked about the boots, mine are Head Adapt Edge 90 flex. I found them veeery comfortable to be in them whole day.

First I had them on soft setting, but it seemd like I do not have enough control. On stiffer setting is much better.

What gets me frustrated is that on the piste I see kids literally 3-4 years old just going down hill, no breaking, no nothing and they go on reasonable speed, but I am constantly breaking (snowplough, is that correct term) even in turnings. It is so tiring and frustrating.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Angelovski wrote:
Someone asked about the boots, mine are Head Adapt Edge 90 flex. I found them veeery comfortable to be in them whole day.

First I had them on soft setting, but it seemd like I do not have enough control. On stiffer setting is much better.

What gets me frustrated is that on the piste I see kids literally 3-4 years old just going down hill, no breaking, no nothing and they go on reasonable speed, but I am constantly breaking (snowplough, is that correct term) even in turnings. It is so tiring and frustrating.


They are not very heavy and also they may well be in a wedge. Kids seems to be able to pull off the most amazing wedges (mine could ski with the tips literally pointed straight at each other! Shocked ) - and be able to do it all day! It is also a challenge to convince them that there is any value in turning! Madeye-Smiley
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Angelovski wrote:

What gets me frustrated is that on the piste I see kids literally 3-4 years old just going down hill, no breaking, no nothing and they go on reasonable speed, but I am constantly breaking (snowplough, is that correct term) even in turnings. It is so tiring and frustrating.

If you want a "natural speed break", that is slow speed without turning or breaking, you need to be on a VERY SLOW ski!

Go down about 2 size in length will achieve that. rolling eyes

I will repeat my recommendation of "having your head examined"! Albeit not by a psychiatrist, but by a ski instructor. Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
stuarth wrote:

If you watch a current world cup skier, they are often not pure carving either - at least not for the first part of the turn because if they did they would never make it round the steep gates with large offsets - so you see the "almost pivot"

I think this is called a Stivot or a Schmear.......or something. Madeye-Smiley
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar wrote:
under a new name wrote:
@rob@rar, lovely isn't it?
Poetry.
Thirded. I'm relieved to see closing the inside ski with a step Toofy Grin . Not much else of his movements seem to correspond to mine...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@shep, the one man, self-contained animatronic ski museum?

Oh no, wait, you got new kit this last decade didn't you? Bet you still have your SOS stuff in the guising box ...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Angelovski wrote:
Someone asked about the boots, mine are Head Adapt Edge 90 flex. I found them veeery comfortable to be in them whole day.

First I had them on soft setting, but it seemd like I do not have enough control. On stiffer setting is much better.


That’s a pretty soft boot for somebody your size trying to drive relatively stiff skis. “Very comfortable” very often means “too big” which also reduces your ability to control the skis. Even if the fit is good your ski and boot combination isn’t doing you any favours.
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Stick with the skis and just get used to them. All the best!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Back on (a nicely carved) track, @Valkyrie's right. IMHO a grown adult shouldn't be on anything clocking less than a nominal 110 flex. Trying to drive a relatively rigid ski like a Racetiger (of any flavour) on nom. 90 flex boots is really not going to work. Too soft, you lose too much control input.

Equally, I'm pretty sure that's not the main problem, or the 2nd main problem.
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Got to have a bit of a grumble re. the soft boot issue. I absolutely agree that too big is a no no but soft flex is not necessarily a bad thing when progressing from snowplow through smeared to initial carve turns. I ski in telemark boots with a flex of about 100 and given my mass Embarassed I should not be able to drive the Nordica scaffold planks I love. But the soft flex allows me to exaggerate my movement and feel how my body positioning has an effect on how the ski behaves. I've skied for half a day with my boots still in walk mode and not had a problem.
This is much more difficult in a lesson environment where a stiff boot that can be driven hard with the right skills set is just a concrete wellie for those that are trying to emulate the motions of an instructor and develope muscle memories.

As for boot fit, my personal ideal is after the liners are warmed up from 30 minutes or so of first run cobweb clearing is that they should feel like "bondage slippers" but more importantly is to ensure that the boot ankle pivot matches your own skeletal mechanics. A visit to a good bootfitter like CEM in Bicester should be on the cards before the first foray on piste.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Masque, I think you sort of have a point, sort of, maybe, but it's not really a recommendation. If the boot isn't adequately supporting you and transmitting the control inputs, the skis won't be doing what you're asking them to do.

That said I have both - spent a morning with one boot in hike mode - and climbed for 2 hours with both boots in ski mode. Easily done.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
stuarth wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
@under a new name, (Apologies to the OP for the detour)

It's taken from an article explaining the "new" ski shape and how to start carving for the uninitiated - so not in the context of racing.

I agreed with your description of Skarving - which is what Stenmark is doing. You cannot do a "pure" carve that starts with a pivot....even if the important element is.

It was the "limits of the equipment" that led to my pedantic argument in the first place.

I think we are really in agreement and are just arguing for the sake of it. Toofy Grin


And continuing the thread drift... wink
If you watch a current world cup skier, they are often not pure carving either - at least not for the first part of the turn because if they did they would never make it round the steep gates with large offsets - so you see the "almost pivot", slam the edges (though probably much more subtle and complex than slamming!) and carve the rest of the turn - pretty impressive!
See another American demonstrating GS (good shot at about 55s):
http://youtube.com/v/fZ_I7fERP6I

@Angelovski,
Just don't do what Ted Ligety's doing, and you'll not go as fast as as him - easy! wink
I have been over to you tube to watch this Ligety vid in slowmo (Excellent!!) and have found several other slowmo skiing vids, but no real speed ones. Any suggestions where I could fins some, particularly ones with a drone following.


http://youtube.com/v/jdBWFxXZSuM
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Lots of good videos on he FB page including this one. Getting your hand/hip on the snow is one thing, getting an armpit down is quite another!
https://www.facebook.com/ligetyted/videos/10155998204748440/
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@under a new name, I agree that the OP will need stiffer boots in the long term (especially with the Racetigers) but at the stage she is with a softer rental ski to basically start from scratch I don't see any issue with a soft boot . . . but she really needs to get them checked for size and fit.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
stuarth wrote:
... If you watch a current world cup skier, they are often not pure carving either ...
Aye. Race technique has different goals.
As far as "pure" carving, that seems like a concept I don't think the world needs.

I think the original reason for the thread drift was that someone pointed out that not many people carved before wide skis...
which I at least took offence to as to me at least being able to carve was what defined being a competent skier, back in those Kodachrome days.

yoda wrote:
I wonder how many self-styled "powderhounds" on their namby-pamby fat skis could ski bottomless powder on those 2m narrow planks?

Probably the same percentage who used to be able to carve wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@philwig, with Ali's help I believe that I became reasonably proficient at carving, certainly on the less "challenging" slopes and particularly after I bought a pair of Salomon 3S skis, and later X-Screams with Hangl plates (boy did they weigh a ton when shouldering them uphill rolling eyes ) - still couldn't do the steep and deep on them though. Probably too wimpy to go fast enough Toofy Grin
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
shep wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
under a new name wrote:
@rob@rar, lovely isn't it?
Poetry.
Thirded. I'm relieved to see closing the inside ski with a step Toofy Grin . Not much else of his movements seem to correspond to mine...
Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
philwig wrote:

I think the original reason for the thread drift was that someone pointed out that not many people carved before wide skis...
which I at least took offence to as to me at least being able to carve was what defined being a competent skier, back in those Kodachrome days.


Are you still grumbling about that? Toofy Grin
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
philwig wrote:

I think the original reason for the thread drift was that someone pointed out that not many people carved before wide skis...
which I at least took offence to as to me at least being able to carve was what defined being a competent skier, back in those Kodachrome days.


Interesting quote, as unbeknown to many users they where photographing in black and white, colours being added during processing.

Quite a neat analogy though, if you take unskilled as B+W and the sunny uplands of colour as achievement of skills Very Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@ski3, The photo of Yoda would have been on Kodachrome (or similar), not a digital image, think you are making a bit of a jump to read anything else into the comment from philwig.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rjs wrote:
@ski3, The photo of Yoda would have been on Kodachrome (or similar), not a digital image, think you are making a bit of a jump to read anything else into the comment from philwig.


Yes probably right.

I was just equating it to that moment, with instruction taken, some suitable skis, plus boots, then you find yourself linking those turns and they keep coming one after the other.

Then you realise that you too have arrived at a level that you saw in others when you first got on skis, hence the B+W to colour feeling.

Certainly a Kodachrome moment Very Happy
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