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The safest resorts in a pandemic -Forbes

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2020/10/11/europe-winter-travel-the-10-best-covid-safest-ski-resorts-for-2020-2021/

My own choice would be Lake Louise.

I once worked at a Tesco distribution centre. If you worked in the 0- 5 degrees zones you have a constant cold. If you worked in the freezer, you never got ill.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

If you worked in the 0- 5 degrees zones you have a constant cold. If you worked in the freezer, you never got ill.


@cameronphillips2000, ah, yes, the well known and oft-cited “Tesco Refrigeration Temperature Moderated Pathogenicity” study. I think I read it in “Nature”, didn’t I? ...

anecdote, data, wotever ...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Of course catching a virus has little to do with temperature and more to do with allowing people to breathe on you.
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And of course, that article wasn’t retro-edited to spin in some covidery, no, surely not.

Oh, wait ....
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
the safest resorts will be the ones that reduce the chance of people breathing on you in confined spaces - that means halving occupancy on ski buses, in gondolas and cable cars, in public places generally, managing how people gather in public places such as restaurants (no buffets and keep people seated) and such like ... imho
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under a new name wrote:
Quote:

If you worked in the 0- 5 degrees zones you have a constant cold. If you worked in the freezer, you never got ill.


@cameronphillips2000, ah, yes, the well known and oft-cited “Tesco Refrigeration Temperature Moderated Pathogenicity” study. I think I read it in “Nature”, didn’t I? ...

anecdote, data, wotever ...


Seasonal flu and the effects of temperature/ humidity is a massively researched topic. Temps just above.amd below freezing are well known for areas with highest tranmission rates. Even the greatest internet trolls are not going to argue the use of freezers to inhibit spread of disease. Mind you, we have seen the Flat Earthers appear again this year.......

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/flu-virus-fortified-colder-weather

There are thousands of papers on this,.as.I'm sure you've read with your Nature subscription....
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rayscoops wrote:
the safest resorts will be the ones that reduce the chance of people breathing on you in confined spaces - that means halving occupancy on ski buses, in gondolas and cable cars, in public places generally, managing how people gather in public places such as restaurants (no buffets and keep people seated) and such like ... imho


Those resorts that rely on 160 capacity sardine density cable cars are going to seriously struggle this year. I remember an early morning trip in the huge cable car in St Anton where somebody had clearly had a "bad pint' within a few seconds everybody knew about it. Greatest demonstration of diffusion I,ever witnessed
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@cameronphillips2000, so, per the article, you’re more likely to be infected in the Tesco freezer than fridge? *

* never suggested temperatures and humidity weren’t important, just y’know, anecdote, data, etc.
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@cameronphillips2000, that is the pay off I suppose, some businesses in dealing with Covid are de facto more viable than others. Unfortunately businesses that have to squeeze people ‘shoulder to shoulder’ into plastic/metal boxes is a tricky one
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Quote:

diffusion


Excellent word.

I have seen that effect. It is impressive how 10 folk can go from complaining about occupying a crowded cable car, with plenty of space, to being quite happy all occupying the 10 cms closest to the walls...
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@rayscoops, vis. the Aiguille du Midi cable car breaks even at (+/-) 34 passengers.

As it's "public transport" (!) - French social distancing laws don't apply.

Guess the max occupancy put in force by CdMB ... (given that there is always a queue) ...
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
www.chillout.co.nz

Any of the ski areas listed on there are in a country with no bat flu, and the only lifts are dodgy old rope tows, where you use your own tow handle.

Don't have to touch anything that someone else has touched.

No crowds either. And cheap.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@hang11, except a bit tricky to get to them from overseas at the moment . (But interesting as I didnt even realise that there was such a pass for the club fields, not having skied much in the SI)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Isnt it rather obvious that the safest resort would be one you can travel to under your own (or with your family) steam and hence the answer will be different depending on where you live?

Usual nonsensical article posing as useful info from Forbes.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
In my opinion the safest resorts will be those that don't have gondolas and cable cars where most accommodation is self catering and most people arrive by car.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@GreenDay, not really, aren’t we talking about the resorts themselves not the mode of transport ? or origin of traveller ?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
under a new name wrote:
@cameronphillips2000, so, per the article, you’re more likely to be infected in the Tesco freezer than fridge? *

* never suggested temperatures and humidity weren’t important, just y’know, anecdote, data, etc.


Working in the huge freezers was interesting in many ways. To be honest, the only regular experiment we cared out, as student temps, was can you snap off somebody's hair, covered in hair gel, once frozen? The answer is yes. We did it regularly.

The temp was -20 but with the wind chill from the blasters was like -35. Your breath froze and dropped in front of you, rather than diffusing around the room. I've seen videos of the same thing skiing at Lake Louise where they get similar temps.

The worst places for colds and flu are schools in my experience. 20 years as a Science teacher and I had a cold every few weeks. No self respecting school kid ever used a hanky......
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think the infection rate is defined by

R = Person Density * Alcoholic units consumed * Germanic or latin personally spectrum profile score * * raves attended * / Hydrochorofloxine consumed * Supermarket Class score * Average age

Based on the above, you're probably better off at the Lech end of Arlberg....

Joking aside, Switzerland has infection rates that vary greatly by the language of the region - The German speakers mirror German rates and the Italian and French rates similarly.
There's a lot of theories about this being cultural and the German speakers follow protocols and rules far better than the French speakers.
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rayscoops wrote:
@GreenDay, not really, aren’t we talking about the resorts themselves not the mode of transport ? or origin of traveller ?


As far as I am concerned, outside of the obvious (preference for open lifts, avoiding funiculars etc etc) resorts will all be pretty much the same when it comes to safety.

Hence my scoffing at the daft article.

The two items in bold are, however, rather important when it comes to the transmission of the virus....................

IMV, as much as possible staying close to home (so, Scotland or just dont ski much this year) - or travelling in one trans europe express trip to self catered or your own apartment - are the only ways to go this season.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Let’s see, what makes these “top 10” resorts so much “safer”...?

“Mandatory mask wearing in cable cars/rails...”

“Social distancing with floor marking...”

So that begs the question, what do the rest of the “below top 10” resorts are doing... or NOT doing???

Perhaps they didn’t advertise on Forbes? rolling eyes
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Quote:

The worst places for colds and flu are schools in my experience.


@cameronphillips2000, while I realise this is also anecdotal, it makes total sense and is reinforced by my own observation. Not having kids and not being a teacher, I would assert that every cold in recent years has been preceded by contact with the younger niblings and a comment from their mother that, “oh feck there’s a bug going round”. Yep, yep, there was.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

I once worked at a Tesco distribution centre. If you worked in the 0- 5 degrees zones you have a constant cold. If you worked in the freezer, you never got ill.


Lol, I Agree Some days at Louise you get to -40... so you wont get Covid, mainly because gondola shuts down.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
cameronphillips2000 wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2020/10/11/europe-winter-travel-the-10-best-covid-safest-ski-resorts-for-2020-2021/

My own choice would be Lake Louise.

I once worked at a Tesco distribution centre. If you worked in the 0- 5 degrees zones you have a constant cold. If you worked in the freezer, you never got ill.


have you considered the risk of picking up covid on the long haul flight there?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Those resorts that rely on 160 capacity sardine density cable cars are going to seriously struggle this year. I remember an early morning trip in the huge cable car in St Anton where somebody had clearly had a "bad pint' within a few seconds everybody knew about it. Greatest demonstration of diffusion I,ever witnessed

Ah, the guilty, childish pleasure of dropping a silent but deadly in a crowded cable car Laughing Laughing Laughing

I once shared a gondola with a couple of Italian guys & the dirty ....s started smoking in the gondola, why can't you summon a really loud smelly guff when you need one??? Laughing Laughing Laughing
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I haven't read the article but I bet they didn't really come up with the safest 'resort'... Glenshee. Virtually impossible to get to without your own transport, not an enclosed lift in sight (most of which are 'single occupancy') and with the normal weather, if anyone with Covid coughs the germs will be blown half way across the Cairngorms in a matter of seconds.

It's certainly going to be my best bet for a ski trip/day this year.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowymum wrote:
cameronphillips2000 wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2020/10/11/europe-winter-travel-the-10-best-covid-safest-ski-resorts-for-2020-2021/

My own choice would be Lake Louise.

I once worked at a Tesco distribution centre. If you worked in the 0- 5 degrees zones you have a constant cold. If you worked in the freezer, you never got ill.


have you considered the risk of picking up covid on the long haul flight there?


If everyone has had a test on departure and are wearing masks how could that possibly happen wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Ravelin wrote:
I haven't read the article but I bet they didn't really come up with the safest 'resort'... Glenshee. Virtually impossible to get to without your own transport, not an enclosed lift in sight (most of which are 'single occupancy') and with the normal weather, if anyone with Covid coughs the germs will be blown half way across the Cairngorms in a matter of seconds.

It's certainly going to be my best bet for a ski trip/day this year.


It's where I am thinking of skiing. Though I wonder how welcome English visitors will be.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
achilles wrote:
Ravelin wrote:
I haven't read the article but I bet they didn't really come up with the safest 'resort'... Glenshee. Virtually impossible to get to without your own transport, not an enclosed lift in sight (most of which are 'single occupancy') and with the normal weather, if anyone with Covid coughs the germs will be blown half way across the Cairngorms in a matter of seconds.

It's certainly going to be my best bet for a ski trip/day this year.


It's where I am thinking of skiing. Though I wonder how welcome English visitors will be.

Unless restrictions on travel are put in I should think Glenshee will be as welcoming as anywhere. With Scotland the West is sometimes better than the east and sometimes visa versa. Glencoe has no enclosed lifts either and excellent skiing in good conditions.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@T Bar, thanks for that. Where would you recommend staying for Glencoe - Ballachulish?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
achilles wrote:
@T Bar, thanks for that. Where would you recommend staying for Glencoe - Ballachulish?

A long time since I've stayed anywhere in the area as I can drive there in under two hours from home, so no particular places I can recommend but if I was coming from the south I would consider Crianlarich which is about half an hour short of glencoe on good roads. Bridge of Orchy hotel used to be nice Kingshouse hotel is very convenient.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@achilles, there's a campsite at the Kingshouse ...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
achilles wrote:


It's where I am thinking of skiing. Though I wonder how welcome English visitors will be.


Keep your trap shut on your views on how a wizzard Brexit is best for all UK and how BoJo is doing a great job and you might get out alive wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@T Bar, thank you.
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Ravelin wrote:
I haven't read the article but I bet they didn't really come up with the safest 'resort'... Glenshee. Virtually impossible to get to without your own transport, not an enclosed lift in sight (most of which are 'single occupancy') and with the normal weather, if anyone with Covid coughs the germs will be blown half way across the Cairngorms in a matter of seconds.

It's certainly going to be my best bet for a ski trip/day this year.


I would say that Glencoe and the Lecht also meet the criteria of no enclosed lifts and virtually impossible to get to without your own transport. The biggest issue is going to be lift queues. I wonder what Nevis Range are going to do with gondola occupancy?

Now I just need Nicola to introduce travel bans from tier 3, tier 2 and the central belt, and close all the local hospitality so the slopes and lifts remain nicely empty with no lift queues for me Very Happy

One of my flat mates at University always said the best time to ski at Cairngrom was when the A9 at Drumochter was closed with bonus points if it was also closed at the Slochd. It meant excellant snow and empty slopes. Mind you that was back when there where four working chair lifts.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
cameronphillips2000 wrote:
under a new name wrote:
Quote:

If you worked in the 0- 5 degrees zones you have a constant cold. If you worked in the freezer, you never got ill.


@cameronphillips2000, ah, yes, the well known and oft-cited “Tesco Refrigeration Temperature Moderated Pathogenicity” study. I think I read it in “Nature”, didn’t I? ...

anecdote, data, wotever ...


Seasonal flu and the effects of temperature/ humidity is a massively researched topic. Temps just above.amd below freezing are well known for areas with highest tranmission rates. Even the greatest internet trolls are not going to argue the use of freezers to inhibit spread of disease. Mind you, we have seen the Flat Earthers appear again this year.......

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/flu-virus-fortified-colder-weather

There are thousands of papers on this,.as.I'm sure you've read with your Nature subscription....


Colds/flu is greatest in cold regions or cold times of year, because people tend to congregate in warm humid houses with the central heating on. Not because the flu just loves refridgeration temperature.
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I have been thinking about how to do a ski family gathering really safely. My extended family like to get together, and sometimes do it at a ski resort, principally so as to hang out somewhere scenic and lets the kids get a feel for being on skis. This family group include some people who have some risk factors.

I would like to suggest going to Scotland, and using a couple of 4 by 4's with something appropriate in the wheels to ferry people up some slope. It would not need to be much of a slope, I have done this [1] a few times when it snows in the south, and I would really like try this [2] if we get enough snow. Something between that would be quite enough for us, if we could get an airbnb in the area. Is that likely to be realistic, if we were flexible as to when we went, and so could wait for the right conditions?

[1] https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/51.5227491,-1.1506467/Car+park/@51.5225816,-1.1584494,515m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x4876bd4c2d97833b:0xf46e12e1c7944e3!2m2!1d-1.1611628!2d51.5218524!

[2] https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/51.5818453,-1.5651823/Disabled+car+park/@51.5787373,-1.5689079,865m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x48714c88ef3b7a89:0x34a1d06591a3df18!2m2!1d-1.5728682!2d51.5762684!3e0

Note: in each case the drive is show, there is a reasnoble slope on the feild next to the road
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@cameronphillips2000, I worked with a large contractor late 80's commissioning a cold store in Dubai......+40C outside and -35C inside, the forklift drivers running in and out wore some crazy looking PPE, you don't want to be hanging about inside without it, and outside you boil inside your suit.......we all wore igloo suits with water backpacks which froze as soon as we went inside obviously.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@hughbedo I would say when there is an exceptional year like the winter of 2009/10 then there would be dozens of places across the highlands where this is possible. Let's face it under those sorts of conditions a Scottish Haute Route from Ben Nevis to Ben Avon is possible. However in a "normal" winter the opportunities in the Highlands are going to be few and far between. The landscape is "rugged" and in general needs significant snowfall to make skiing possible.

The Scottish snow centres use for the main part natural snow fields augmented by fencing to get the snow to drift in just the right places. You are likely to have more success in northern England or the Lowlands where the landscape is less rugged and lower snow depths are required for skiing. From memory the club field in Allenheads actually mows the field they use in the autumn so they can ski on only a few centimetres of snow.

That said there are ample backcountry opportunities if you are willing to walk to the snow field.

As I said Glenshee, Glencoe and the Lecht, are all a mixture of drag lifts and chairs. I would imagine that Nevis Range would implement some sort of occupancy limits on the access gonadal (aka household groups), which will create delays getting on the mountain, but once up it's all drag lifts and chairs. With the train still broken I would stay clear of Cairngorm as getting up the mountain is going to lead to very big queues if it is even possible at all.
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