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Is the 2020/2021 a non starter?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
February HT is still a long way off and balance is not due until 6 weeks prior, however, it is so unlikely that if travel blocks are still in place 6 weeks prior I suspect we'll not pay the balance. I think most people will do that same.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@RobinS, I guess is hard for companies like that who are leasing and reselling the accommodation with some value added services. They have very few fixed assets so can dip in and out of the market when it suits them, but have to commit to the property owners in advance and carry that financial risk. I guess the ones for whom you worked didn't fancy that so dipped out.

Where the cost of the accommodation is a sunk cost, then you may as well operate.
I think it also helps that here in PdS a lot of people self-drive, so if they have some flexi-fare style crossing, and they know that the accommodation provider will refund them should it go wrong, then their exposure to the financial risk is much less in the event of it being cancelled - this will increase their propensity to book.

The lease and resell model only really works when there is confidence in the market and liquidity.

It's like why people buy gold in uncertain times, rather than Brent crude futures, as there is some tangible asset against which their money is secured.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
What's the situation with Airbnb bookings if resorts are shut or if we cancel before final payment do they have to refund ?
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@robs1, I assume like Booking.com unless there is a free cancellation period, you would forfeit your deposit. Ski areas are highly unlikely to be shut, all seem to be making similar commitments to having COVID masks/social distancing policies.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
We are driving January to Grand Massif and have booked independent accommodation. The main concern for us is lockdown in localised areas travelling through France . We have to stop enroute with dogs. Also, it’s not fair on Chalet owner for us to cancel last minute, so at what point do we change our booking to 2022 ?? We’re all in the same boat , both buyers and sellers
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Seems the Epic Pass sales in the USA are at an all time high. 59k in a virtual queue trying to purchase for 2021
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@susieski, change to 2022 now and see what happens to get a last minute for 2021 if possible
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Yes, we have a 3 week booking so a large chunk for a chalet owner to loose last minute; and as long time skiers we are not prepared to mess an owner around. Blimey , it’s a tough call.
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Montana wrote:
@Michelle63, worth asking your insurance? I wrote to ours (LV) recently as we’re in the same situation as you; question and response as here:- We have a holiday booked for January 2021, booked in February 2020. The balance is due in October. If we pay the balance, but then are unable to travel due to illness, further restrictions or lockdown, are we covered? Earlier this year, there WAS an FAQ on your website, dealing with this specific question, but it is no longer there.
Reply
Yes you will be covered so you would pay the balance as that's part of your holiday contract and if you can't go due to the above you will be covered


Will check it out, thanks
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
What do you think will happen with insurance if we don’t go just because we don’t want to do the 14 quarantine period when we get home! I wonder if they’d pay out then.

I have the balance on our Xmas skiing due in October and I’m nervous about paying it as if there is 14 day quarantine still we won’t go.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Stinkpickle, no chance if you chose not to travel!!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@RobinS, Even though you have had the disappointment of your seaon job falling through, there's loads of other jobs around PdS this winter:

https://www.indeed.fr/jobs?q=Jobs&l=Morzine+%2874%29
https://www.1taf.com/offres-d-emploi/morzine-74110/V74191
https://www.simplyhired.fr/search?l=morzine+%2874%29&job=VtbhXCT4UhdOJ5deNIP9iQPWvqysVZyvXapy5qC3UD1BSImtcWLPEA

Some of the are interviewing now.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Stinkpickle wrote:
What do you think will happen with insurance if we don’t go just because we don’t want to do the 14 quarantine period when we get home! I wonder if they’d pay out then.

I have the balance on our Xmas skiing due in October and I’m nervous about paying it as if there is 14 day quarantine still we won’t go.


The 14 day quarantine period is irrelevant. It is the FCDO restrictions advising essential travel only that mean that your holiday can't take place if restrictions are still in place at that time. If you booked your holiday pre pandemic and have decent insurance it might pay out (but I would check the details of your policy with your insurer before paying the balance). Alternatively if it is a package you might be entitled to a refund from the Tour Operator. Postponement might also be an option. NB if you rebook whilst restrictions are in place you might have difficulty with insurance if the postponed holiday couldn't take place..therefore you might want to ask for a credit note and make the new booking when restrictions are eased.

Some people seem to be choosing to travel while restrictions are in place but you have to bear in mind that your normal travel insurance would become invalid if there is an FCDO warning in place. You would be left with just EHIC protection (for holidays up to 31st December) . I have heard that you can get specific insurance to travel when FCDO restrictions are in place and that is something I will look into if we get into the same situation ourselves.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pointless booking anything unless its last minute & knowing destination is on safe list.
Otherwise I run the risk of not being insured.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Mr.Egg wrote:
pointless booking anything unless its last minute & knowing destination is on safe list.
Otherwise I run the risk of not being insured.


I agree. its last minute or Scotland!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
As long as Sturgeon doesn't put England on a no travel list. rolling eyes
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@susieski, Not pet owners so not really on our radar. I read an article in the last few days that suggested travel with pets could become more complex after the end of 2020. (sods law, can't find the particular thread now.) I think it hinged on whether the UK becomes "a listed country" which would allow the current arrangements to continue.

I was surprised to read that it can be a 4 month process to get everything in order. Must take away some of the spontaneity of snagging a deal at short notice. Not that we haven't got enough to worry about Puzzled
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Looking back, I did quite well in March. I had four large business events booked across Europe, big rents, ferries, hotels and a skiing holiday all booked etc and didn't lose nearly as much as I could have done.
I was liaising with a lot of European business, reading a lot of Snowheads and my partner was a doctor on the Covid wards getting all the latest info from Europe, particularly Bergamo which was ravished.
My advice would be this:

Don't book anything that requires upfront payment.
Pay for everything on credit card
Don't book anything in a group over 4
Don't pick resorts with a young clientele, or nightlife (Ischgl etc.)
Germany and the German speaking regions of Switzerland handled this best. They are good at getting organised and following procedures - they will likely fair best this winter.
Hotels are gonna get closed first (especially ones with buffets) - self cater.
AirBNB will close when authorities say they have to and refunds are variable, depending on a time scale. Private rentals may stay open - but you may get lynched by the locals.
More remote and quieter resorts will fair better. Livigno, Bormio area come to mind, parts of the Pyrenees. Avoid resorts within an hour of big cities.
If you can't isolate when you come back, forget it.
Drive, don't fly (Airlines are, and will continue to go bust)
Tour operators will go under.
Norway could be good. Low density or people and good healthcare.
Hire a motorhome and go where you're allowed
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@cameronphillips2000, and in your list you forgot "go ski touring" Laughing
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@cameronphillips2000, Some of your advice is a bit muddled - eg. You say drive but then go to Norway...How long does it take to drive there?
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snowymum wrote:
@cameronphillips2000, Some of your advice is a bit muddled - eg. You say drive but then go to Norway...How long does it take to drive there?


About 2 days. Not a pretty drive either Sad
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The biggest risk has to be the school trip - no groups over 6, coach companies that will have gone bust with no codger trips for a year, small vulnerable operators, hotels that specialise in school trips where they all hire equipment and don't distance very well.
I'm not hanging over the cash for my daughter's school trip til the very end...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@cameronphillips2000, Interesting. I thought it would be longer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
cameronphillips2000 wrote:
The biggest risk has to be the school trip - no groups over 6, coach companies that will have gone bust with no codger trips for a year, small vulnerable operators, hotels that specialise in school trips where they all hire equipment and don't distance very well.
I'm not hanging over the cash for my daughter's school trip til the very end...


I saw a coach full of elderly people on the Isle of Wight a few weeks ago so amazingly a few coach tours seem to have resumed for the highest risk age group! I don't think the rule of 6 will apply to school trips but they might be restricted to only travelling in year group bubbles.

However I share your concern for school trip companies and coach companies. I hope they can keep going taking advance bookings for the 2021-2022 academic year. At least the coach companies now have the school run back.
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cameronphillips2000 wrote:
snowymum wrote:
@cameronphillips2000, Some of your advice is a bit muddled - eg. You say drive but then go to Norway...How long does it take to drive there?


About 2 days. Not a pretty drive either Sad

So what? In view of the 14 day quarantine requirement, 2x2 days is actually more preferable!

(I did exactly that back in March. Knowing Covid was coming to my home, I drove out to Colorado, a 3 1/2 day drive! Sure, I lose 3 days of skiing by taking the "slow" route. But it's a much safer mode of transportation. And I did the 14 days self-isolation afterward anyway, even though not "officially" required. I couldn't risk infecting my 80 year old Mom. Having the luxury to work from home made that much easier to achieve)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
cameronphillips2000 wrote:
The biggest risk has to be the school trip - no groups over 6, coach companies that will have gone bust with no codger trips for a year, small vulnerable operators, hotels that specialise in school trips where they all hire equipment and don't distance very well.
I'm not hanging over the cash for my daughter's school trip til the very end...


If it's coach all the way to, say, Italy then there is a further issue - max occupancy of a coach over there is currently 60%. So the transport costs go up whether it is coach all the way or fly & coach transfer.

I think schools and operators will have to make decisions very soon and the likely decision has to be "computer says no". France / Austria still on the quarantine list and Italy could so easily join them - no school will want to risk 2 weeks quarantine for staff and pupils straight after half term, and nor will most of the parents. So, at what point does a school head make the call? They aren't usually risk takers.

All ski tour ops will have some stark choices to make soon as well - charter flight allocations will need to be firmed up and paid for, chalet rent, resort staff need employing, and a ton of other commitments that require money. Are they busy collecting deposits knowing full well they can't survive? In April they were handing back cash, rebooking or suffering S75 chargebacks. How on earth do they run programs for 20/21 when things are as uncertain as they are?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Pruman, not a hard call at all. Cancel and focus on catching up with lost education. A school ski trip is by no means important in the scheme of things
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Had an email from peak retreats today saying they are extending the time for a complete refund of our deposit up to 42 days before we travel and if the fco or french put in restrictions we can opt for refund or rebooking, if our chosen resort has a local lockdown we can also get a refund or rebook or move to another resort,this is valid right up to the day we travel, very happy with that, hopefully the mont blanc lift pass offer next week will have the same conditions.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Similar email from Crystal - "If the current FCDO travel restrictions or quarantine requirements remain in place, we'll be in touch around two weeks before your departure date to offer a range of flexible options - including amending for free to a different destination or departure date, or cancelling your holiday free of charge for a full cash refund."
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The Swiss have declared the U.K. a risk area. Travellers from the U.K. must quarrantine for 10 days upon entry to Switzerland. Effective from Monday 28th Sept.

https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/bag-meldet-514-neuansteckungen-berner-hobbykicker-muss-40-kollegen-in-quarantaene-schicken-707221502952
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Haggis_Trap wrote:
mitcva wrote:
The EU has hardly covered itself in glory during the pandemic.


And the UK has it under control ?
Reality is that we are long way off finding a solution to this problem.
Either a vaccine or majority of population becoming immune the only obvious escape route.

The entire continent of Europe, including UK, is clearly a long way off opening borders and letting flights fly anywhere.
Once travel does happen then it will need to be on a controlled basis.
My guess is that when EU does open up then it will initially be on regional basis ?
Anything else would be insanity. Following on from that member states most likely to get priority over outsiders ?

Who knows what will happen by next winter - however I certainly wouldn't be planning a summer holiday to Benidorm wink




Will the SNP propose a plan to ban English people from crossing the Border to use Scottish Skiing Resorts this Winter? rolling eyes
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowymum wrote:
@cameronphillips2000, Some of your advice is a bit muddled - eg. You say drive but then go to Norway...How long does it take to drive there?


That really depends where you start from.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
cc_7up wrote:
...Will the SNP propose a plan to ban English people from crossing the Border to use Scottish Skiing Resorts this Winter? rolling eyes

If they follow the Welsh practice of local lockdowns then they may not even let most Scottish people use Scottish Skiing Resorts this Winter - in which case the English would definitely not be welcome!
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https://www.snow-forecast.com/whiteroom/france-plans-near-normal-ski-centre-operations-this-winter/?fbclid=IwAR0iqNWjKYKK5hZ8lhj91DCIAGIXmWwY_1yJpv5eGrfADf9kq_BOLujS4aA
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I have booked a place to stay in Sesterier for January, I guess I am being optimistic, as it is the Irish green list is so blooming short, but we hope that by January we will have an EU system in place. I hope that the ski resorts open as normal, a winter without skiing would feel terribly long.
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snowymum wrote:
@cameronphillips2000, Interesting. I thought it would be longer.


bug of a drive, right through the most densely populated part of Europe.. Shame the old ferry doesn't go from Newcastle any more.
If you've got a van, or camper, you can go on the commercial roll on roll off from Immingham, but it's not.cheap.

Looking at restrictions i think Norway might be the only real option this season. There are cheap flights to Oslo - if they're still running...
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
cc_7up wrote:
Haggis_Trap wrote:
mitcva wrote:
The EU has hardly covered itself in glory during the pandemic.


And the UK has it under control ?
Reality is that we are long way off finding a solution to this problem.
Either a vaccine or majority of population becoming immune the only obvious escape route.

The entire continent of Europe, including UK, is clearly a long way off opening borders and letting flights fly anywhere.
Once travel does happen then it will need to be on a controlled basis.
My guess is that when EU does open up then it will initially be on regional basis ?
Anything else would be insanity. Following on from that member states most likely to get priority over outsiders ?

Who knows what will happen by next winter - however I certainly wouldn't be planning a summer holiday to Benidorm wink




Will the SNP propose a plan to ban English people from crossing the Border to use Scottish Skiing Resorts this Winter? rolling eyes


Unsubstantiated brain-fart of the week
Remember most Scots couldn't ski at home themselves from March onwards last winter as result of covid.

It might come as surprise to you most Scots quite happy with Scottish government response to covid.
Meanwhile Dom Cummings simply does as he pleases.....

Four in five Scots say Nicola Sturgeon has handled the coronavirus outbreak well
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/four-five-scots-say-nicola-sturgeon-has-handled-coronavirus-outbreak-well
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
The 2020/21 season has started. There is snow on the ground and friends have gone ski touring. snowHead
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I've just realised the greatest think about Snowheads is that even although I know deep down that it's unlikely I'll get to ski this year, I can come here and indulge my delusion that it might still be possible. In doing so I'm also not alone, lol.

My best bet would appear to be hoping for a snowy Scottish season since I can drive to Glenshee in about 1hr15, less to Lecht (if the Strathdon approach is open). Despite having the flexibility of a motorhome we aren't planning a Xmas trip this year, but I'm holding out hope that an Easter one might just be possible.
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Pruman wrote:
I think schools and operators will have to make decisions very soon and the likely decision has to be "computer says no". France / Austria still on the quarantine list and Italy could so easily join them - no school will want to risk 2 weeks quarantine for staff and pupils straight after half term, and nor will most of the parents. So, at what point does a school head make the call? They aren't usually risk takers.
Interski, who are a large operator of school ski trips to the Aosta valley in Italy, recently confirmed that they would not be running any trips until Feb half term at the earliest. That was inevitable, and to be honest I can’t see any school wanting to organise a ski trip this academic year and I’d guess most will look to back out of any trips already booked.
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