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Ischgl was the secret virus hub in Europe (Important Info)t

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
As we don't have constant, ubiquitous testing there's no way of judging or recording/later anaylsing instantaneous infection rates, so all we will have to work with will be the "what percentage of the population has had it?" rate (and only then with widespread antibody testing - the NHS example I posted would clearly be biased upwards as that group were interacting directly and indirectly with confirmed Covid positive patients, as well as asymptomatic patients/fellow media staff/etc).

If we look back and find say small commuter towns (so 'similar' population size/mixing of people in and out of the town with wider populations) have antibody rates of say 50% then yes, an 85% rate in Ischgl would be statistically significant. If it's 75% though, you only need a 5% margin of error and that could be both on the same 80% rate.

Currently it's "piece of string" time. We have one piece of string 2m long and trying to decide if that's a long, or short piece. If it's a shoe laces, yes it is. If it's for mooring up an ocean lines, no it isn't. If it's a social distance measure, then it's spot on (this week at least).
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We HAVE a few good samples : the ships like the Diamond Princess. The infection rate was about 20% and about 80% of those infected had no simptoms. There were about 3500 people on board. The numbers were similar on board of a US Navy Ship.
I think that the random testing done in Iceland has even lower numbers
Based on that, the 42% from Ischgl is very high. That could be good news for herd immunity
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You cannot use the UK NHS for extrapolating C19 infection rates in the wider world.

UK hospitals are among the uncleanest and least-protected in the entire developed world and like a blackhole of plague death.

Even worse than Italy.

Some recent estimates suggest UK hospitals have madeup ~3% of the UK population, but ~50% of all deadly C19 spread!
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Some recent estimates suggest @Whitegold makes up ~50% of his statistics but only ~3% of readers believe any of them.
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@DJL, give him some credit. He makes up at least 90% of his stats Toofy Grin
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Whitegold wrote:
You cannot use the UK NHS for extrapolating C19 infection rates in the wider world.

UK hospitals are among the uncleanest and least-protected in the entire developed world and like a blackhole of plague death.

Even worse than Italy.

Some recent estimates suggest UK hospitals have madeup ~3% of the UK population, but ~50% of all deadly C19 spread!


Verbier, zermatt, lech. What was the question again?!
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[quote="Whitegold"]You cannot use the UK NHS for extrapolating C19 infection rates in the wider world.

UK hospitals are among the uncleanest and least-protected in the entire developed world and like a blackhole of plague death.

Even worse than Italy.

Some recent estimates suggest UK hospitals have madeup ~3% of the UK population, but ~50% of all deadly C19 spread![/quo

maybe we should give a little more thought to investing in the health services of this country. Please not start with 'but is appallingly managed, that's is given, and successive governments have failed to improve it. However if you want truly world-class (health, education, security and policing) you need to pay for it, time to wake up.

A 1p tax increase generated £7b per annum, I say go for it, In fact don't vote /elect any government which says it won't increase taxation.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Another article about Ischgl, with some rather sad stories https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-ischgl-outbreak-families-of-covid-19-victims-seek-justice-a-bbf9aa92-dfed-42d0-870c-ff9d17125d45.

I continue to be doubtful that there will be any successful court case or blame attributed to the authorities but my loathing of the place and the grasping people who own it grows ever larger the more I read about them. Not sure the prospect of an early season ski weekend (the ski area is undoubtedly good) will persuade to me to pay them any more money
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@munich_irish, agree about loathing the place, though I don't think things are much different in St.Anton tbh.
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A screening station has now been installed in Ischgl in cooperation with the University of Innsbruck in an attempt to reassure visitors. Apparently, any tourists can request screening there, regardless of whether they have symptoms or not, and results should be available the same day. There was no mention of the price.
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Scarlet wrote:
A screening station has now been installed in Ischgl in cooperation with the University of Innsbruck in an attempt to reassure visitors. Apparently, any tourists can request screening there, regardless of whether they have symptoms or not, and results should be available the same day. There was no mention of the price.


Perhaps it is "free" when you buy a bottle of champagne Very Happy
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Steilhang, I agree that there is a certain amount of "Ischglisation" creeping in, the new development by the Galzig lift station for example along with the corporate blah spouted by the tourist office but I doubt it will ever become as bad. Even so I prefer Pettneu these days far less "bling" around.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Free tests on Thursday am before you leave resort apparently. So largely a bit of reassurance/PR that Ischgl hasn't infected you.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@munich_irish, yes, when we stay in the Arlberg it's usually in Pettneu. I passed through Ischgl last September on my MTB transalp, and still thought the place was a dump!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Ischgl will NEVER be the Same


http://youtube.com/v/wkxxpgjRR-k

Apres-Ski werde es in der bisherigen Form diesen Winter nicht mehr geben, waren sich die Verantwortlichen einig. Details dazu werde es aber erst im Herbst geben

"""Apres-Ski will no longer exist in its current form this winter, the officials agreed. Details of this will not be available until the autumn."""

https://www.tt.com/artikel/30748063/gaeste-screening-bis-apr-s-ski-ischgl-erarbeitete-massnahmen-fuer-wintersaison
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

I passed through Ischgl last September on my MTB transalp, and still thought the place was a dump!

@Steilhang, I agree the town is like a spaghetti western town, that said some great skiing. I just hope that this reset button (if that's what it turns out to be) is a lasting legacy and that the town pulls itself though and the idiots go do something else, it's pretty sad that people have needed to get hammered and get up to all sorts to enjoy themselves, and spoil it for others, but going forwards it may actually become a decent place to go in future years. it's even more awful in summer, looks like a depressed UK seaside town in winter, strange place.
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@stanton,

so it wont be full of cockwombles?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
once the perceived crisis is passed Ischgl will start to revert..
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@Bob, I think it will be a long time before we see the kind of partying that lead to Ischgl infecting the rest of Europe. They have learned some lessons.
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@Steilhang, maybe, there were similar sort of statements after the banking crisis in 2008 (though obviously in very different circumstances), a few years later the bankers were behaving as they always had done. None of us know how this thing will play out but assuming there is a vaccine or similar folk will be back to partying as ever. I think the whole Ischgl thing was pretty revolting and would not mourn its passing but there was a lot of money to be made, those making the money will want to keep at it whatever the statements about responsible tourism.
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@munich_irish, time will tell. Possibly one of the unfortunate aspects of Covid is that it does (almost) only affect older people so we still see young folk going on raves, crowding beaches etc. It's only the old wankers I'm killing, so let me have my fun...
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I’ve been to Ischgl twice, both times at Christmas and both times in small, central hotels. Really liked the skiing and didn’t really notice a wild apres scene, the town seemed pretty quiet in the hours after the lifts shut. St Anton seems much noisier and more drunken to me.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Valkyrie wrote:
I’ve been to Ischgl twice, both times at Christmas and both times in small, central hotels. Really liked the skiing and didn’t really notice a wild apres scene, the town seemed pretty quiet in the hours after the lifts shut. St Anton seems much noisier and more drunken to me.


That's just the difference between a town full of drink, but still well behaved and respectful Germans/Scandis and a town full of drunk Brits...
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@Mjit, assuming you mean Anton when you say full of drunken Brits?

It’s all nationalities who pile out of the apres places just above town, not just Brits. In general they are young groups of impressionable 30 somethings who get carried away, and make a mess of themselves and bring the town into disrepute. I know there are vast swathes of local hoteliers who are trying to apply great pressure to stop them coming but it’s a large challenge not least because they perhaps need a law change to stop Onpiste apres after say 18.00.

As for Ischgl the behaviour is far from well behaved and respectful, more sleezy. I certainly wouldn’t go there anymore in its current guise, perhaps in future it will reappraise what it has become and press reset.
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@Markymark29, I agree. The whole scantily clad women as entertainment seems a bit dated.
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Scarlet wrote:
@Markymark29, I agree. The whole scantily clad women as entertainment seems a bit dated.


Meh, if that's not your thing then just don't go in Schatzi or FreeRide. It's not mine and I've never had any issues walking straight past them to one of Ischgl's many other non-seedy apres bars.

On the flip side though my friends and I have had some really good evenings in the Kitzloch chatting with some of the women who work in those bars, or the strip clubs, on their nights off. Many of them just see it as the best way to do a ski season - good hours (only apres hours or evenings), well paid, very good tips, and, in their view, standing on a bar wearing a Dirndl swinging your knees in Schatzi after a days skiing is much nicer than cleaning other people's poo-poo from toilets in a hotel...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
With St Anton, it really depends whether you want to be part of the apres scene and where you stay. If prefer a quiet relaxed evening, don’t stay in the Dorfstraße, or around the Galzigbahn Talstation. In Nasserein, we are pretty much oblivious/isolated from the shenanigans of apres. There are probably quiet areas up above the west end town, eg Gastig or Stadle, but I not familiar with them.
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Another article raking over the coals of what happened in Ischgl https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/05/everyone-was-drenched-in-the-virus-was-this-austrian-ski-resort-a-covid-19-ground-zero . Not sure there is anything new to be said.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@munich_irish, agreed but chilling nonetheless, that day 13th March and its memories will stick with me for a long time.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
just filling column inches, nothing useful or insightful.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Bob wrote:
just filling column inches, nothing useful or insightful.


Agreed, more tosh from the Grundiad. The virus was around, for sure, in early Jan - I suspect even earlier. There may well have been 6000 Ischgl - compare that to international travellers to/from China in the same period, many of whom would have transited 2/3 airports, hotels and various transport networks.
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@Dravot, A very good article IMHO. I hadn't realised that the group action was taking place and the extend of burying heads in sand.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
johnE wrote:
@Dravot, A very good article IMHO. I hadn't realised that the group action was taking place and the extend of burying heads in sand.

I've been working on/with Covid since mid-Jan. Ischgl isn't/wasn't the problem.
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@johnE, Beyond the personal stories there is nothing in the article that has not already been referenced in the thread above. There is an official inquiry taking place and maybe something interesting will come out of that. Personally I suspect not, yes maybe it might have been possible to take some firmer action 24 or 48 hours earlier but there simply was not the understanding of the issue at the time. It is easy to come up with conspiracy theories (especially when those involved are as unpleasant as the mob that own Ischgl ) but cock up is almost always the correct explanation.
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Dravot wrote:
johnE wrote:
@Dravot, A very good article IMHO. I hadn't realised that the group action was taking place and the extend of burying heads in sand.

I've been working on/with Covid since mid-Jan. Ischgl isn't/wasn't the problem.


What was then?
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There is now a podcast version of the Guardian article https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2020/sep/14/how-austrian-ski-resort-centre-europe-covid-19-outbreak, I dont listen to podcasts but presumably just a rehash of the article. Perhaps the folk interviewed are members here?
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No specific comment on the Ischgl / coronavirus situation but just to give a bit of balance on the town itself. Perhaps it depends on whether you live nearby and go for a day or if you're on holiday for a week. If you're on holiday then Apres is most welcome, you're there to have fun as well as ski even if skiing is the main reason. Its also not just women dancing there are plenty of places for all tastes, even families, Niki's is hilarious to 10 year olds watching all the drunk people dancing and the robot Marmots in the light show etc.

Don't see a huge difference between St Anton and Ischgl towns other than St Anton's larger size spreading out things more.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Mind you, it appears we took our own case of CV19 to a small Austrian resort in March in the guise of a British nurse who became poorly midweek and was not able to go back to work for several weeks.
Of 100 people on our holiday from around the world at least a dozen tested positive for the virus or antibodies, 2 survived intensive care! And many reported mild symptoms at home.

We do not know whether any hotel staff or the wider community in the resort were affected....
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