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Ski Instructor Job Shaming

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
johnE wrote:
Did you not realise that half of all research scientists are below average.
Well they're Physicists, so they can't really do maths;-)

You'd think that anyone in any hierarchical businesses / organisation would possibly want at least contemplate that they may not be in the tiny number who end up at the top.
Ski instructing is actually relatively flat, so there is that I suppose..
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
lots of interesting comments from all, I'd echo quite a lot of what @boarder2020, said in his first post. Job shaming happens both ways.....

I'm convinced job shaming at both ends of the spectrum is driven by the need for someone to feel superior often due to underlying jealousy.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
LittleBullet wrote:

I'm convinced job shaming at both ends of the spectrum is driven by the need for someone to feel superior often due to underlying jealousy.

It's the insecurity manifest as jealousy.
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philwig wrote:

You'd think that anyone in any hierarchical businesses / organisation would possibly want at least contemplate that they may not be in the tiny number who end up at the top.
Ski instructing is actually relatively flat, so there is that I suppose..

You're talking only power in a hierarchy. Sad

To be a research scientist, you have to be insatiably curious, for the sake of understanding the world around us.

You also need to be incredibly creative, to think outside of the box. For the tried and true are typically already been exhaustively explored.

Bottom line, basic research is about exploration of the unknown, in the hope of discovering something profound or fundamental. A research scientist chase the faintest lead, and even if it leads to dead ends, you enjoy the journey for your own satisfaction. (and you have the knack to justify it to the funding agency, that being a separate topic)

Not everyone is happy to labour in obscurity for years or decades to get to the result (or NOT getting the result). There're plenty of brilliant researchers who didn't get the kind of lucky discovery, just because they aren't at the right place at the right time. You have to be ok with that. ("that" being wasted your brilliant mind on nothing useful).

The OP prefers to see his labour bearing fruits in the form of smiles on the students face. That is just a very different kind of mentality.

There're also many more of "applied" research which will yield a shorter term result & satisfaction. Typically with even better financial reward too. That's where probably the majority of ex-physicists end up after they "wash out" of physics. Many"pure" physicists will still look down upon them. But they're the winners. Finding the balance of skill, aptitude, work satisfaction and financial reward.

I think university tend to shortchange students by not clarifying that distinction. Students are left to "discover" that on their own, as part of their education I supposed. But then again, since the "real" physicists never worked outside of basic physics research, how can they know about the difference anyway?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Am I the only one to have originally seen this as a thread about job-sharing? Or to have never heard of "job shaming"?
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@snowdave, Average can mean mean, mode or median. Thats why it is not used in statistics
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@orioriori89, Think i've possibly seen you post some of your articles on a facebook ski group or a facebook BASI group?

I'm at a cross roads at the moment. I'm close to pulling the trigger and booking myself in for BASI L1 this Summer/Autumn. I'm an accountant myself, have been working in that area since leaving uni in 2012. Got myself in to a position now where i'm fairly comfortable in terms of my work and earn a decent wage, no crazy amount, but enough to do the things I love in life. But I can't help but feel like I haven't go another 30 years of it in me before retiring.

I'm fairly certain I want to go down a route of instructing in the Winter, and then picking up some form of contracting working in accountancy during the summer. Need to take the leap and just do it, it's just hard to make that leap! I wish i'd been as addicted in my late teens/early 20s to know I wanted to instruct as I am now. It would have been a much easier leap than it is now!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@swskier,

similar here, though where my home country skiing is a non-existent topic. I will take the IASI L1 this year as a personal goal and see what comes next.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

Chin up, it's not all bad

On the clock


Not saying you can't have great days while working as an instructor. Especially if you are a higher level instructor working with better skiers. I'm sure there were some other instructors the day of your video that were stuck with beginner groups and wished they were enjoying the pow. I still think the majority of people would have more fun on a powder day they were not working and could do exactly what they wanted, rather than having to work with clients.

Edit:
The op themselves has an article about some of the negatives of instructing, and touches on these things so let's not pretend instructing is all great https://skiinstructordiaries.com/articles/expectations-vs-realities-life-as-a-ski-instructor


This was as good a day as the one I posted previously, in very different circumstances.

The similarity was seeing both of my students having the time of their lives. That's why I and thousands of others teach.

If you're bitching & moaning that you're missing a powder day, you're either in the wrong profession or the wrong resort (there'll be other powder days).

Or both Smile

Coincidentally it was big brother Ian in the first vid and younger brother James in this one.


http://youtube.com/v/LBYTq9kp95A
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:

If you're bitching & moaning that you're missing a powder day, you're either in the wrong profession or the wrong resort (there'll be other powder days).


Outside Japan I would argue that real powder days are not that common. Of course some people enjoy teaching and if it works for them that's great. I don't understand how you can't see that most people would probably rather spend their time skiing than teaching though. Imagine the conversation
"Oh I enjoy [insert hobby/activity]"
"You know what you would enjoy more than actually doing it, teaching it"
Puzzled

I also haven't heard many instructors offering to give up their days off to work for free!

Are you really saying none of the points here are true? https://skiinstructordiaries.com/articles/expectations-vs-realities-life-as-a-ski-instructor
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
boarder2020 wrote:

Imagine the conversation
"Oh I enjoy [insert hobby/activity]"
"You know what you would enjoy more than actually doing it, teaching it"

But it's absolutely true!!!

You don't have to "imagine" that conversation. It happened in real world. I've heard it more than once.

Like you, I used to think it's lunacy. Until I tried it myself. LOVE IT!

Quote:
I also haven't heard many instructors offering to give up their days off to work for free!

No matter how much you enjoy doing something, if you take payment to do it for some people, you must not do it for free for others. It just devalues your work!

But plenty of instructors I know would give up their day off and teach.

Heck, I give up plenty of days to work (not teaching, but my "office" job) because I love it EVEN MORE. Not just the job, but the work itself I enjoy enormously. It could have easily be teaching too.

Quote:
Of course some people enjoy teaching and if it works for them that's great. I don't understand how you can't see that most people would probably rather spend their time skiing than teaching though.

It's not "most people" either way. Nor does it matter. For the individual who enjoys teaching, that's all it matters. And if you haven't tried it, you're in no position to judge whether it's right or wrong for that individual.

I'm the lucky one that I found my calling in my career. Or rather, I changed career to do something I enjoy doing in my spare time and made it pay. So I just chuckle every time I hear the saying "rather spend a day [insert leisure activity] rather in the office". I'd prefer a balance. But if push comes to shove, if I must give up one and can only do one but not both, I'd gladly do what I've been doing at work. Fortunately, I don't have to choose. I get to do plenty of both.

Plenty of people got into ski instructing for egotistic reason and are then disillusioned. But that has no bearing to those who enjoy the teaching.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
A few hackers in my golf group. I've enjoyed helping them improve over the years as much as playing myself. Watching them hit great shots and their joy when they score well is priceless. It's how we're all wired imo.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

If you're bitching & moaning that you're missing a powder day, you're either in the wrong profession or the wrong resort (there'll be other powder days).


Outside Japan I would argue that real powder days are not that common. Of course some people enjoy teaching and if it works for them that's great. I don't understand how you can't see that most people would probably rather spend their time skiing than teaching though. Imagine the conversation
"Oh I enjoy [insert hobby/activity]"
"You know what you would enjoy more than actually doing it, teaching it"
Puzzled

I also haven't heard many instructors offering to give up their days off to work for free!

Are you really saying none of the points here are true? https://skiinstructordiaries.com/articles/expectations-vs-realities-life-as-a-ski-instructor


Just starting to read the article

3rd sentence

"Personally I worked 6 days a week every week, from 9am to 11pm, for my whole season"

WTF?

14 hours per day instructing?


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Tue 30-06-20 16:54; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

If you're bitching & moaning that you're missing a powder day, you're either in the wrong profession or the wrong resort (there'll be other powder days).


Outside Japan I would argue that real powder days are not that common. Of course some people enjoy teaching and if it works for them that's great. I don't understand how you can't see that most people would probably rather spend their time skiing than teaching though. Imagine the conversation
"Oh I enjoy [insert hobby/activity]"
"You know what you would enjoy more than actually doing it, teaching it"
Puzzled

I also haven't heard many instructors offering to give up their days off to work for free!

Are you really saying none of the points here are true? https://skiinstructordiaries.com/articles/expectations-vs-realities-life-as-a-ski-instructor


Certainly Japan has more powder days than most but there are plenty of resorts in a number of countries around the ski world which have a great powder record.

I absolutely can see 'that most people would probably rather spend their time skiing than teaching' but you're comparing apples with oranges.

Unless you're a trustafarian or a child then skiing costs money.

Either you earn money in the 'real world' and then choose to spend some of that money to go skiing.

Or you earn your money skiing, and when you're not working your sunk costs - lift pass, equipment, accommodation - allow you to ski freely for 'free'.

In the article link you posted the author said that even if you had one day off per week that still only equates to 12 days off a season.

Most recreational skiers get 6 days on snow per year, the lucky ones may get 12 (two holidays).

But that's still not the same as 1 day per week for 12 weeks, with time on snow in between those days.

Quote:
"Oh I enjoy [insert hobby/activity]"
"You know what you would enjoy more than actually doing it, teaching it"
Puzzled


When I'm teaching I'm doing both.

I'm physically 'doing' skiing when I'm teaching. It's a win, win.

It may be at a slower speed on a lower angled slope but my aim every day I go out skiing is to ski as if I'm as light as a feather.

Some people approach skiing as fitness, like jogging. I don't.

I've traded in powerful efforts for effortless power.

So regardless of speed, pitch, difficulty, if I've done it effortlessly then I'm happy.

That's what I teach to my students. And if they achieve it, then I get the bonus of them feeling like I feel.


I've taught countless times when no money has been exchanged for my services.

But in my experience in the ski world non-monetary arrangements are often more valuable than being paid.

Opportunities present themselves which wouldn't be on offer otherwise, regardless of how much cash is in your wallet.

And I've also gone out skiing, bumped in to someone struggling, and taught them for free.

They feel good, I feel good. That's enough.

If I see them in the bar later and they buy me a drink, then that's a bonus.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I wouldn’t fancy it but I dare say you wouldn’t fancy my job either. Crack on and stop listening.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I suspect that some people just enjoy teaching - whatever - to people who want to learn. My daughter became a sailing instructor at 16. She was never interested in racing, high-tech rigging tweaking and sneaky tactics at the windward mark. She just loved taking out some scared kid, or worried middle aged woman, and bringing them back smiling and elated.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

I absolutely can see 'that most people would probably rather spend their time skiing than teaching' but you're comparing apples with oranges.


I am saying most people I know living in ski resorts don't consider teaching a good job because it limits your free skiing time as the work hours have to clash with lift opening hours. You can work in a bar or restaurant and earn similar money and have more time to ski.

Quote:

Unless you're a trustafarian or a child then skiing costs money.


I'd say 50% of the people I usually ski with save up the rest of the year then take a couple of months out to go to British Columbia each winter. It's a lot more achievable than most think. I can do 3 months all in (flights, lift pass, food, accomodation etc.) for under £3k. Of course that's living like a ski bum so not particularly luxurious, but gives me 3 months of enjoying the snow in complete freedom which is well worth the sacrifices.

The other 50% work while out there. Most try to find evening positions to maximise ski time. For those working in resort (free lift pass is a big selling point) lifties and patrol are all considered better than instructing as more time free skiing. I have no evidence to support that fact, but it's the general consensus among that group some of whom have done multiple positions. Cat/Heli guide is considered the top job for obvious reasons.

I don't think we are going to agree. I am glad you enjoy teaching so much, we need people like you. I am happy to stick with my freeskiing though.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

I absolutely can see 'that most people would probably rather spend their time skiing than teaching' but you're comparing apples with oranges.


I am saying most people I know living in ski resorts don't consider teaching a good job because it limits your free skiing time as the work hours have to clash with lift opening hours. You can work in a bar or restaurant and earn similar money and have more time to ski.

Quote:

Unless you're a trustafarian or a child then skiing costs money.


I'd say 50% of the people I usually ski with save up the rest of the year then take a couple of months out to go to British Columbia each winter. It's a lot more achievable than most think. I can do 3 months all in (flights, lift pass, food, accomodation etc.) for under £3k. Of course that's living like a ski bum so not particularly luxurious, but gives me 3 months of enjoying the snow in complete freedom which is well worth the sacrifices.

The other 50% work while out there. Most try to find evening positions to maximise ski time. For those working in resort (free lift pass is a big selling point) lifties and patrol are all considered better than instructing as more time free skiing. I have no evidence to support that fact, but it's the general consensus among that group some of whom have done multiple positions. Cat/Heli guide is considered the top job for obvious reasons.

I don't think we are going to agree. I am glad you enjoy teaching so much, we need people like you. I am happy to stick with my freeskiing though.


All avenues to ski time are valid if it gets you on the mountain.

I was providing an alternative viewpoint where it is possible to get the satisfaction of doing a job you love AND be paid 'real world' money.

I do the opposite of you.

I work as much as I can during the ski season and then bring home as much money as I can to last me the other 9 months.

I get plenty of time on snow, plenty of powder, and enjoy resort life without having to watch my pennies.

On my return to the UK my partner and I have a 7-10 day Euro ski trip.

I'm able to live comfortably if I'm sensible, spend as much time as I want outdoors taking photos, and choose paid photographic work which interests me and fits in my schedule.

I'll be 54 this year, been doing this for best part of 20 years.

Works for me. And others.
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Don’t think you can compare Japan to Europe. Lots of light powder and low angled slopes means you can instruct on/side of piste and get powder while you’re at it. In Europe you typically need to work harder for it and you’re not allowed to take students into the best terrain unless you’re a guide. So if you really want to develop your skiing and mountain craft, which IMO, will take you away from the pistes, instructing isn’t the best path. If you love instructing and happy to ski on/nr piste then its a different matter.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
BobinCH wrote:
Don’t think you can compare Japan to Europe. Lots of light powder and low angled slopes means you can instruct on/side of piste and get powder while you’re at it. In Europe you typically need to work harder for it and you’re not allowed to take students into the best terrain unless you’re a guide. So if you really want to develop your skiing and mountain craft, which IMO, will take you away from the pistes, instructing isn’t the best path. If you love instructing and happy to ski on/nr piste then its a different matter.


True.

But boarder2020 is based in Canada, which is similar to Hokkaido
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Quote:

But boarder2020 is based in Canada, which is similar to Hokkaido


In terms of snowfall? I don't think so. Maybe Whistler, but interior gets far less snow. In terms of terrain good look finding some low angles slopes at kicking horse!

Quote:

So if you really want to develop your skiing and mountain craft, which IMO, will take you away from the pistes, instructing isn’t the best path. If you love instructing and happy to ski on/nr piste then its a different matter.


That's a good point. We are certainly more interested in off-piste and touring so maybe another reason teaching doesn't appeal.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
boarder2020 wrote:
In terms of snowfall? I don't think so. Maybe Whistler, but interior gets far less snow. In terms of terrain good look finding some low angles slopes at kicking horse!


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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@boarder2020, 3k for 3months?

@Mike Pow, "I work as much as I can during the ski season and then bring home as much money as I can to last me the other 9 months." - I'm assuming you do some work or have other income for the rest of the year?.... certainly would not be possible living in London (or the south-east) with mortgage and kids....the one guy I know who did it the SE worked the remainder of the year in the UK
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

But boarder2020 is based in Canada, which is similar to Hokkaido


In terms of snowfall? I don't think so. Maybe Whistler, but interior gets far less snow. In terms of terrain good look finding some low angles slopes at kicking horse!


I'm well aware of the Interior BC snow record. I spent two winters at Kicking Horse in the early days (Years 2 & 3).

It was more a reference to being able to teach on and off-groomed within the resort area boundary.

And you may not ski it, but there's plenty of low angled intermediate terrain on and off groomed from the Catamount Chair.

Plus after a sometimes tricky cat track Crystal Bowl is intermediate heaven.


Quote:

Quote:
So if you really want to develop your skiing and mountain craft, which IMO, will take you away from the pistes, instructing isn’t the best path. If you love instructing and happy to ski on/nr piste then its a different matter.


That's a good point. We are certainly more interested in off-piste and touring so maybe another reason teaching doesn't appeal.


It's not an 'either or' situation IMHO.

I teach on and off-piste.
I play on and off-piste.
I tour

I got my Canadian Avalanche Association Level 1 Ski Operations when I was based at Kicking Horse, and toured from the resort and in the excellent Rogers Pass area.

The ratios for you and I will be different but we ski similar snow and similar terrain.

Kicking Horse has its epic powder days and Hokkaido and the areas I ski in Europe have challenging terrain.

Even Wales has it Smile

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9yhG64FE47/


You - like the majority of skiers - have no interest in teaching skiing, but being a ski teacher doesn't consign you to the bottom of the mountain underpaid and underplayed.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 1-07-20 14:08; edited 1 time in total
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
LittleBullet wrote:

@Mike Pow, "I work as much as I can during the ski season and then bring home as much money as I can to last me the other 9 months." - I'm assuming you do some work or have other income for the rest of the year?.... certainly would not be possible living in London (or the south-east) with mortgage and kids....the one guy I know who did it the SE worked the remainder of the year in the UK


Yes I do.

Freelance photographic work which adds to the pot. But like ski instructing it's something I love doing. And I control my work schedule.

I live in farming country in West Wales so bills are a fraction of London and the South East.

No children.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Well, did we not come full circle on the "job shaming" question!

To understand the "why" part, it is pretty clear, isn't it? People who never teach and can't understand why anyone teaches.
Quote:
We are certainly more interested in off-piste and touring so maybe another reason teaching doesn't appeal.

Quote:
You - like the majority of skiers - have no interest in teaching skiing, but being a ski teacher doesn't consign you to the bottom of the mountain underpaid and underplayed.

OP, when you choose to study physics to an advance level, did you ask the janitor who work in the physics lab whether that's a good career move? Laughing Laughing
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

3k for 3months?


This year I was in golden. Accomodation was £335 per month (sharing a room), kicking horse early bird season pass around £600, flights £461. I don't know exactly what I spent on food, but was way less than £10 per day. Few extra little costs like a night in Calgary (about £20-25 I think in hi hostel), and transport between Calgary and golden (around £25 each way using rideshares).

Quote:

Not possible living in London (or the south-east) with mortgage and kids


Well don't live in London or have kids. It's all about priorities. Of course I am not living some life of luxury. I am happy to sacrifice in other areas to do the things I want. As much as most people say they want a certain lifestyle in the mountains they are not prepared to give up their current lifestyle.

Quote:

No children


The key to a happy life doing exactly what you want snowHead

Quote:

You - like the majority of skiers - have no interest in teaching skiing, but being a ski teacher doesn't consign you to the bottom of the mountain underpaid and underplayed


It sounds like you have a nice situation that suits your needs and is enjoyable. I'm not sure your situation as an experienced instructor with higher qualifications is the same as a level 2 instructor, who I think is more likely going to get stuck babysitting kids. I still don't believe for 99% of people teaching is more enjoyable than just free skiing. However, it doesn't really matter what I think as your situation obviously suits you so keep doing it and enjoying your lifestyle.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

I still don't believe for 99% of people teaching is more enjoyable than just free skiing.

I ask what that "believe" is based upon?

You must know 99% of the population "can't believe" spending a day out in the cold sliding about on 2 planks is "more enjoyable than" just sitting on a warm couch!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
orioriori89 wrote:
Very often when I tell people I am a ski instructor and that I indeed want to make a career out of it I am met with a few reactions. One is just stunned silence, they can't comprehend it, sometimes people get angry about it, they call it a waste of my education, but most often I find myself being simply job shamed. I understand that it has a lower income than many jobs, but I personally think if you work hard then the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

So my question is: why do people tell you to find a job you love and then shame you for doing it?

Would love to hear peoples thoughts, on both opinions on the whole job shaming aspect and industry workers stories/points of view on the matter.



In my experience it stems from their own insecurities/complexes, misunderstanding, or jealousy.

All that matters is what make YOU content. I used to work seasonally in bars and in catering and was the happiest I'd ever been. Then I'd come home in the Summer and people would call me Peter Pan/tell me to grow up and get a real job and guess what? I did, and it's not all it's cracked up to be, it's a trap! I'm now a respected professional earning good money, I drive a nice car and have a big house, but does that make me any happier than the ski instructors? Absolutely not. As long as you can afford to put a roof over your head, food on the table and (if necessary) provide for a family, then it doesn't matter what you are doing. Just think about all those punters who shell out a fortune to go and ski for a week and probably have no more fun than you do while you're working!

You do your thing and make the most of it! If you want to make a life out of it then maybe think about how to achieve long term financial security but don't waste your life in that pursuit Very Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
swskier wrote:


I'm at a cross roads at the moment. I'm close to pulling the trigger and booking myself in for BASI L1 this Summer/Autumn. I'm an accountant myself, have been working in that area since leaving uni in 2012. Got myself in to a position now where i'm fairly comfortable in terms of my work and earn a decent wage, no crazy amount, but enough to do the things I love in life. But I can't help but feel like I haven't go another 30 years of it in me before retiring.!


Now we've looked at your file Mr Swskier and I think we've built up a pretty clear picture of the sort of person you are and I think we can say without fear of contradiction that the ideal career for you is chartered accountancy.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
boarder2020 wrote:

It sounds like you have a nice situation that suits your needs and is enjoyable. I'm not sure your situation as an experienced instructor with higher qualifications is the same as a level 2 instructor, who I think is more likely going to get stuck babysitting kids. I still don't believe for 99% of people teaching is more enjoyable than just free skiing. However, it doesn't really matter what I think as your situation obviously suits you so keep doing it and enjoying your lifestyle.


Thanks. I go OK as an experienced CSIA Level 2 instructor.

Keep enjoying your winters in one of my favourite places on Earth. Many happy memories of my time there.

And if you run in to the Bests from Mount 7 Lodges please give them my regards.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Some people just want to have a go at people that make different life choices to them, regardless of what it is. I'm a lawyer, and although I've not chosen to go down the route that would be the most well-paid or have the career prospects (I'm not a partner in my firm, I'm part of the knowledge team which is more academic support to the client-facing lawyers), I am regarded as an expert in my team, the people I work with appreciate what I do, I work four days a week and actually go home (or at the moment, put the laptop away) by 5:30pm, and I enjoy what I do. Despite all that, in the last year my dad has remarked (to my mum rather than to my face...) that he doesn't know what they put me through university for. Unless I'm doing exactly what he would have done in my position, he considers it a failure. *shrug*
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@orioriori89,

OP did a good job of dropping the grenade and running.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Ryunis wrote:
...
All that matters is what make YOU content. I used to work seasonally in bars and in catering and was the happiest I'd ever been. Then I'd come home in the Summer and people would call me Peter Pan/tell me to grow up and get a real job and guess what? I did, and it's not all it's cracked up to be, it's a trap! I'm now a respected professional earning good money, I drive a nice car and have a big house, but does that make me any happier than the ski instructors? Absolutely not. As long as you can afford to put a roof over your head, food on the table and (if necessary) provide for a family, then it doesn't matter what you are doing. Just think about all those punters who shell out a fortune to go and ski for a week and probably have no more fun than you do while you're working! ...


It's a massive trap and I was caught too. A bit like golden handcuffs too (although the term is more commonly used for another meaning I think) - you get to a certain level that and you feel maybe it's not a great life but its very comfortable and at least allows you to go skiing amongst other very nice things but if you downgrade if you fear to lose all the comfort PLUS the things you really love doing. I'm trying to work my way out...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
pam w wrote:
Am I the only one to have originally seen this as a thread about job-sharing? Or to have never heard of "job shaming"?


Nope, never heard of job shaming either.

Its your job, you either like it or not and it provides you with a lifestyle you are happy with or not.

Don't know why you care what other people think, are you enjoying life with an income and lifestyle acceptable to you. If you are not, make adjustments until you are.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
BobinCH wrote:
The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great


This is Utopia
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
BobinCH wrote:
The other option is to find a job in/close to the Alps. In CH there are several cities (eg Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Fribourg, Zürich) with Int’l companies within day tripping distance to the mountains. It’s quite feasible to get in 50 days of skiing over weekends and holidays, without giving up your profession. The Summers here are also great


The ideal option for me probably, trying, but not easy!
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Hi All
#
Quote:


@orioriori89,

OP did a good job of dropping the grenade and running.


Sorry, I haven't been feeling too great the last few days and in all honesty missed the second page of replies so had been confused about the notifications. Clearly was not doing as well as I thought I was :') My honest mistake there sorry to any it frustrated!


I will try and reply to as many messages as I can in this reply to make sure it all makes sense and avoids being spammy Very Happy





Quote:

Not everyone is happy to labour in obscurity for years or decades to get to the result (or NOT getting the result). There're plenty of brilliant researchers who didn't get the kind of lucky discovery, just because they aren't at the right place at the right time. You have to be ok with that. ("that" being wasted your brilliant mind on nothing useful).

The OP prefers to see his labour bearing fruits in the form of smiles on the students face. That is just a very different kind of mentality.



*she Smile - but yes this I think is very true. I looked at the possibility of spending my life locked away in a lab (which I had seen happen at facilities I did research at) and achieve "nothing". The notion of nothing in physics and all sciences is a bit of a tricky one. Say for example my dissertation. I was searching for evidence of a decay, which should not be possible with our current particle model, in some of CERNs data. We analysed it for months and months and months and found exactly nothing. As expected. And just like the previous studies. In physics this is not a worthless study, however - we set the worlds best limit (not hard when there's not much being done on it) on this particular measurement meaning we knew with more certainty than before that there was nothing there. So in physics they might say sure this was useful, but the reality was it wasn't exactly groundbreaking stuff. It gave me an insight into what my future in physics might look like. Working hard and getting good results does not equate to making some kind of breakthrough or hugely contributing. I have chosen to pick a career with smaller milestones, more regular and obvious feedback. I wasn't okay with the idea of wasting my time as you mention.

Quote:

@orioriori89, Think i've possibly seen you post some of your articles on a facebook ski group or a facebook BASI group?

I'm at a cross roads at the moment. I'm close to pulling the trigger and booking myself in for BASI L1 this Summer/Autumn. I'm an accountant myself, have been working in that area since leaving uni in 2012. Got myself in to a position now where i'm fairly comfortable in terms of my work and earn a decent wage, no crazy amount, but enough to do the things I love in life. But I can't help but feel like I haven't go another 30 years of it in me before retiring.


Yes you probably have! We share our content there as it has a high engagement rate Smile I'm bias and would, of course, say go for it! Worst that happens is you train, exam, work and decide its not for you. Then that's 1 year out of your life trying something new. We are lucky that nowadays it is easier to change careers and industries, less dependant on committing yourself to one company for life, so I would say take the chance now than wait 30 years and look back thinking oh but what if? There is also no necessity that once you have the qualification that you HAVE to teach. Maybe you do your training (which will hugely improve your own ability as much as it teaches you to teach) but decide that you don't think teaching isn't the route for you. No shame in that! You will still have improved greatly and in all honesty, the cost of the instructor training courses are very comparable in cost to "improver" courses so it's not like you have greatly lost out. If you'd like to chat a bit more about how I found it all being relatively new to it feel free to give me a message! Smile


Quote:

Just starting to read the article

3rd sentence

"Personally I worked 6 days a week every week, from 9am to 11pm, for my whole season"

WTF?

14 hours per day instructing?


Hahah yes it was a bit intense! BUT this was my own personal experience. I was not teaching the whole time because I also worked as a host as part of my job role, as I mention in other places on the site. It was a very different sort of instructor job than many others I have spoken to but I loved it and wanted to show there is a big variation across even the one sort of job itself. I used my own work hours as an example but pretty much everyone we spoke to said they had way less time than expected all season. Instructors might only expect to be teaching say 4 hours a day. But add in an hour of meetings and carpet set up in the morning, lunch with guests, clean down and tidying up magic carpet zones after lessons, and your 4 hour workday can easily turn into an 8 hour workday without you realising! That's not to say this is true for every instructor ever! I am sure many do manage to just work the hours they expect, but we wanted to give a different viewpoint to what is portrayed by most other articles out there, that would echo our own communities experiences. Hats off to anyone actually instructing 14 hours a day, they'd be champs in my eyes Toofy Grin

Quote:

I'm physically 'doing' skiing when I'm teaching. It's a win, win.

It may be at a slower speed on a lower angled slope but my aim every day I go out skiing is to ski as if I'm as light as a feather.

Some people approach skiing as fitness, like jogging. I don't.

I've traded in powerful efforts for effortless power.

So regardless of speed, pitch, difficulty, if I've done it effortlessly then I'm happy.

That's what I teach to my students. And if they achieve it, then I get the bonus of them feeling like I feel.


Fully agree with what you have said here Mike. When you are skiing every day, every day doesn't have to be an all guns blazing powder heavy, race gates going, kind of day. I get a lot of joy from just being out there on the snow, in the mountains, and knowing every day I'm improving that little bit, and that I'm helping to introduce someone else to the sport!

Quote:

My daughter became a sailing instructor at 16. She was never interested in racing, high-tech rigging tweaking and sneaky tactics at the windward mark. She just loved taking out some scared kid, or worried middle aged woman, and bringing them back smiling and elated.


Hey Pam Smile I think this holds true for many instructors regardless of what they are actually teaching! There is a huge sense of satisfaction in knowing that you have helped to add joy to someone else's day! Good on your daughter!

Quote:

So if you really want to develop your skiing and mountain craft, which IMO, will take you away from the pistes, instructing isn’t the best path. If you love instructing and happy to ski on/nr piste then its a different matter.


You hit on an interesting point here which is the link between developing the sport and instructing that actually boils down more to the qualifications required to teach than the teaching itself. From what I've seen of my own exam board, and speaking to others who qualified with other bodies, most instructor exams and training don't place as much emphasis on the instructing aspect as you might think. There is a lot of work that goes into your own ability as a skiier and getting you as good as you can be, with the idea being that you become the perfect demo. If you want to improve your craft personally I think it needs to be under some kind of guidance, small mistakes can easily become permanent and end up with a high risk of injury. So you need some kind of cost-effective solution for improving which is where instructing comes in. Most ski schools offer free training to their employees as well as a paycheck for time on snow. So whilst I agree that a day on the kids slopes might not do much for improving your technical ability, other aspects of the job will. There are many other ways to improve however, such as race camps, improver or backcountry camps etc, but this does seem like one of the more consistent ways to go about it.

Quote:

You do your thing and make the most of it! If you want to make a life out of it then maybe think about how to achieve long term financial security but don't waste your life in that pursuit


Thank you! Yes it's always a struggle to make sure it will be financially viable, but I keep myself open to opportunities!

Quote:

Despite all that, in the last year my dad has remarked (to my mum rather than to my face...) that he doesn't know what they put me through university for. Unless I'm doing exactly what he would have done in my position, he considers it a failure. *shrug*


Hi Juno! Credit to you for sticking to your guns. I think many people will look and judge what other people do, and if it's not exactly what they think is best they would, as you say, consider it a failure. I get a lot of stick asking what was the point in me going to university. I can understand to some extent why people can see it as a waste, however at the time I started university I really really thought it was the best choice for me. By the time I knew it wasn't something I wanted to work in anymore I was years in - I could either drop out and have no qualification but thousands in debt and 'wasted time', or keep going and get the qualification still which I can use in the future if necessary.

Hope I managed to reply to most stuff! Now I am back in the land of the alert will keep a closer eye on the threat Laughing
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
orioriori89 wrote:

Quote:

Just starting to read the article

3rd sentence

"Personally I worked 6 days a week every week, from 9am to 11pm, for my whole season"

WTF?

14 hours per day instructing?


Hahah yes it was a bit intense! BUT this was my own personal experience. I was not teaching the whole time because I also worked as a host as part of my job role, as I mention in other places on the site. It was a very different sort of instructor job than many others I have spoken to but I loved it and wanted to show there is a big variation across even the one sort of job itself. I used my own work hours as an example but pretty much everyone we spoke to said they had way less time than expected all season. Instructors might only expect to be teaching say 4 hours a day. But add in an hour of meetings and carpet set up in the morning, lunch with guests, clean down and tidying up magic carpet zones after lessons, and your 4 hour workday can easily turn into an 8 hour workday without you realising! That's not to say this is true for every instructor ever! I am sure many do manage to just work the hours they expect, but we wanted to give a different viewpoint to what is portrayed by most other articles out there, that would echo our own communities experiences. Hats off to anyone actually instructing 14 hours a day, they'd be champs in my eyes Toofy Grin


Hope you're feeling better.

Who did you work for please?
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