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Refunds and cancellations - who have been the good guys?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Updates ...

Which? has published a survey which reveals that trust in the travel industry has followed the fall-line ...

"TRUST IN THE TRAVEL INDUSTRY PLUMMETS TO RECORD LOW AMID CORONAVIRUS SCANDAL"
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/05/trust-travel-industry-plummets-record-low-amid-coronavirus-refunds-scandal/

The Guardian has a news report on that survey ...

"TRUST IN AIRLINES AND HOLIDAY FIRMS PLUMMETS, SAYS WHICH?"
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/20/trust-in-airlines-and-holiday-firms-plummets-says-which-coronavirus

For those wanting to read a bit of legal analysis of the situation, BLM - "an insurance risk and commercial law firm with both a domestic and international focus" - has posted this ...

"COVID-19: THE TRAVEL INSURERS’ RESPONSE"
https://www.blmlaw.com/news/covid-19-the-travel-insurers-8217-response

----------------------------------------------------------

Closer to home ...

Davina Goldballs wrote:

Is anyone from snowHeads and/or Banque d'Admin available to comment on the above? [the refund policy of snowHeads]
[b]


Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
I'm sure you can tell us because if you have a direct claim @dadmin will have been in touch. If he hasn't I suspect it's because it's not of your frikkin business. I'm sure you can take some comfort from the lack of bitching and whining on the forum to mean that everyone has had the situation addressed adequately.


I made it clear that it was a matter of idle curiosity. We're discussing the refund policies of everyone from Tui to Fui, without necessarily having any "frikkin business" with either. Scribbling, chat, journalism - whatever one cares to call the mix of this forum - is usually best tackled from an objective viewpoint ... and objectivity is usually gained by having no "frikkin business" in a subject.

Does the business correspondent of your favourite news medium have any "frikking business" ... today ... in the breaking news from Rolls Royce (9000 jobs to go) ... apart from a duty to inform an audience?
Is it best that that business correspondent is a client or shareholder in Rolls Royce to stimulate discussion? Or is it better to be arms-length from 'the business'?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Got this reply from alpy bus yesterday after they had charged me twice this month (may) for a transfer i took on the 5th of febuary
Dear Customer,

Thank you for your email.

Due to current quarantine and travel restrictions our Customer Service is running on reduced hours.
We will reply to your email as soon as possible.

We would like to inform that our transfer service has been suspended until further notice.

We will process any refund as soon as possible, but due to the large impact the Covid 19 situation has on the travel business and the number of refund requests the time had to be extended. We will be processing the refunds from October 2020 onwards. We can only apologise for this unavoidable decision we have had to make and any inconvenience it may cause.

If you have already emailed us, please do not send another email. This only causes double responses which is unnecessary for our work load.

Once again, we apologise for the inconvenience and delay in answering your email, our team is working the best they can to get back to you as quickly as possible.

Kind regards,
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If they've charged you twice, that's credit card fraud.
Report it as a fraudulent transaction, and tell them you will be taking action against them.
You'll get a much swifter response.
I was being mucked around by an insurer in the UK regarding a claim - they'd spouted Covid related stuff.
I threatened them with a FCA and PRA complaint, I got a reply within hours, and the claim settled within days.
ski holidays
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@brock, most card providers give the option to click "query" next to a transaction and input the reason. "charged twice for same purchase" or some similar wording should be one of the options (it's one of the standard chargeback codes, and one that's very easily handled by the systems). This will be a lot quicker than waiting till October.

It would be polite to let Alpybus know that you're planning to do this, and give them a reasonable period (14 days) to refund you themselves, rather than them also having to pay the chargeback fee. If they don't respond, you have plenty of time still for a chargeback.

Barclays has started processing my chargeback/S75 request after my operator declined to refund, about 5 weeks after I originally filed it, so there's clearly a lot of these claims going through the system.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Many thanks for both your comments i have carried out these measures already and informed alpybus!
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Updates ...

The Guardian ... A. Barrister writes ...

"FRUSTRATED CONTRACTS: THE LAW IS ON YOUR SIDE OVER HOLIDAY REFUNDS"
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/may/22/frustrated-contracts-law-holiday-refunds-coronavirus

The Mirror ... has the latest on the biggest operator ...

"TUI APOLOGISES FOR HOLIDAY REFUND FIASCO PROMISING TO BE "BETTER IN THE FUTURE""
https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/news/tui-apologises-holiday-refund-fiasco-22067845

... which is very relevant to this tale told by ThisIsMoney, involving a punter who has punted £5000 on a Tui holiday ...

HOW CAN I GET A REFUND FROM TUI?
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/holidays/article-8311957/How-refund-Tui-holidays.html

MoneySavingExpert has an(other) apparent PR own goal from Ryanair ... involving somewhat dubious language ...

Ryanair staff wrongly tell customers chargeback is 'fraudulent activity' and could mean they are put on a 'blacklist'
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/05/ryanair-staff-wrongly-tell-customers--chargeback-is-fraud--and-c/
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I currently have the amount of my Ryanair tickets showing as pending into my credit card account having initiated a charge back. I did not bother to try to warn Ryanair first as its too difficult to get through.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
My Eurostar refund vouchers arrived yesterday.

Unfortunately there is apparently a £30 admin charge to the TO from Estar plus the TO 10% markup. I wasn't too concerned about the latter, charged by Rail Canterbury - they've always been up front about it, they are a SME and they need all the help they can get. So I told them I wasn't asking for it.

But annoyed to find that my £417 for 3 tickets (£458 total) resulted in vouchers to the value of only £387.

I think if Id gone for an insurance claim I could have had the whole lot inc. the 10% commission - although at what price future premiums?

Question is, will the bu&&ers charge that same £30 again when I rebook...? And now they are saying next year they are dropping to ability to book through the SNCF portion of the journey as a single transaction. Two payments required. Bah.
ski holidays
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Updates ...

Given that Anglo-German Tui is "the largest leisure, travel and tourism company in the world" [Wikipedia] its actions and changes of tactics over the past couple of months must be regarded as a some sort of 'weathervane'.
The company's recent moves to reform its refund policy is bound to influence other operators, both major and minor, ski or non-ski.
Here's the latest state of play ...

1. As reported by The Sun ...

"TUI CUSTOMERS CAN NOW APPLY FOR CASH REFUNDS FOR CANCELLED HOLIDAYS ..."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/11687606/tui-refunds-cash-apply/

2. As set out by Tui itself ...

"CORONAVIRUS INFORMATION"
https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/info/coronavirus
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
belvilla is trying client's patience. client service unreachable, not answering by phone, by email. Promised voucher for next year - sent voucher, but for the sum as I it was cancelled last minute, compensating 10% of rent + cleaning fee + visitors taxes for the resort. Waiting for them to start operating normally and voucher fixed for the right sum, or best case scenario - full refund.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@kosmoz, ime as a former belvilla owner they are totally on the side of the client. Fingers crossed
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I may end up having to accept a Refund Credit Voucher for my 2020 holiday that didn't happen. I've heard that one problem with a voucher is that it isn't protected if the company then goes bust (ATOL/ABTA protection only applies to holidays not to vouchers). But does anyone know what happens if I use the voucher as deposit to book a holiday for 2021 - would my deposit then be protected?
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@holidayloverxx, hope they still value their customers. Refund credit voucher would not be optimal, since it was a house for 10 persons, some will not be able to go (having a new child very soon), some faced financial problems due to COVID-19, but still better than nothing.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Mark Warner finally refunded me and my party today.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Did anyone have any luck with SnowChateaux? Saw last week that some of the bad comments on their Facebook page had been deleted so wondered if they'd paid their staff and guests back yet?
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Recieved this today from alpybus
Dear Valued Customer,

We are contacting you as you have travelled with Alpybus or ChamExpress during the past six months and will have been affected by an error with the payment system. Due to a configuration error with the 3rd party credit card payment account, the credit card transaction (taken by phone) that you made with Alpybus/ChamExpress had been approved but NOT processed or debited from your account.

Our provider has started to process these during April and you might notice a payment taken recently by AlpyBus or Chamexpress on your credit card statement. This transaction relates to the booking you made and travelled with us during the last six months. Until now, your credit card has not been charged. We also would like to assure you that you will not be charged twice for travelling with us.

We hope this puts your mind at rest.

If you were due to receive a refund for the charge that has been debited, please email info@alpybus.com with the heading MAY REFUND 2020 and our office team will prioritize this process. Please detail the name the booking was made in or booking reference number.

If you have a further query relating to this charge please email info@alpybus.com and our team will answer any questions you may have.

We apologise for any inconvenience that this may have caused.

Kind Regards,

AlpyBus Team
info@alpybus.com

Chemin de Morglas 8
1214 Vernier
Switzerland
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The lifts on the Kitzsteinhorn will be resuming operation soon (on 29th May). Accordingly I wrote to enquire whether my prematurely terminated Salzburg Super Ski Card would be valid for the summer skiing. The answer was 'No', on the ground that it wasn't possible since the Super Ski card involves multiple companies. Vaguely understandable but hardly generous. They did offer (everybody) 10% rebate on the normal prices (till 26th June). With no incentive, I doubt if I'll bother going.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
RichClark wrote:
Mark Warner finally refunded me and my party today.

Rich, did you have to subject them to constant pressure to get that result? I spoke to them last about 4 weeks ago and their stance was "carry forward to another holiday, or nothing" in spite of my insistence on a refund. Should I expect a refund to happen now or am I going to have to go back and beat them up again?
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Ryanair is the worst major airline for refunding British customers whose flights have been cancelled during the coronavirus pandemic, with more than eight out of 10 people still waiting for their money back, according to figures from Which?.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Ryanair?
PAH!
Swisssir is the worst!
Look at their fb page see all the not happy comments to their corporate virtue signalling posts!
At least Ryanair you know where you stand if you have dealings with them no pretensions to be other than what they are
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espri wrote:
The lifts on the Kitzsteinhorn will be resuming operation soon (on 29th May). Accordingly I wrote to enquire whether my prematurely terminated Salzburg Super Ski Card would be valid for the summer skiing. The answer was 'No', on the ground that it wasn't possible since the Super Ski card involves multiple companies. Vaguely understandable but hardly generous. They did offer (everybody) 10% rebate on the normal prices (till 26th June). With no incentive, I doubt if I'll bother going.

There's still hope! The SkiWelt area has announced that last winter's season passes are being extended to cover the summer operations (though the details of how this affects the Salzburg Super Ski Card aren't clear at present).
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ryanair?
PAH!
Swisssir is the worst!
Look at their fb page see all the not happy comments to their corporate virtue signalling posts!
At least Ryanair you know where you stand if you have dealings with them no pretensions to be other than what they are
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@snowornever, yup - the Swiss (and Swiss the airline) have become masters at "equivalence" with EU policy as required in a number of areas, but the actual implementation of things like EU261 for flight cancellations has been sufficiently different that I'm not sure Swiss has ever paid out in the way UK airlines do.

My wife was booked on a very lightly loaded flight a couple of years ago that Swiss cancelled last minute (an afternoon flight into City) but it blamed weather (of which there appeared to be none, anywhere in Europe) hence no compensation. The identical BA aircraft on the same route took off 5 mins later without any trouble...
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@snowdave, I got 50chf as a "goodwill gesture" from Swiss.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
WiRED wrote:
RichClark wrote:
Mark Warner finally refunded me and my party today.

Rich, did you have to subject them to constant pressure to get that result? I spoke to them last about 4 weeks ago and their stance was "carry forward to another holiday, or nothing" in spite of my insistence on a refund. Should I expect a refund to happen now or am I going to have to go back and beat them up again?


I’ll send you a DM
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@holidayloverxx, was that in lieu of the €260 that was the EU261 obligation? or was it genuine goodwill?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
When Swiss cancelled my return flight home from Zurich to Birmingham on 19th March they booked me onto a flight that day to Heathrow instead, which meant I had to take a National Express coach from Heathrow back up to Birmingham where my car was parked. They did reimburse me for the coach fare however, so personally I've been dealt with satisfactorily by them, but if people are experiencing long delays for refunds then I can appreciate people will be upset and annoyed.
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Alpine Elements not saying anything after a message that refunds will have to wait until end of January 2021. We are very unlikely to be able to ski next year, and have told them this. Bev has now started a Section 75 claim as she paid it on her credit card.

snowHead
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
snowdave wrote:
@holidayloverxx, was that in lieu of the €260 that was the EU261 obligation? or was it genuine goodwill?


it was in lieu ...I should have pursued it. They said it wasn't their fault, but it was because of a cracked window - whose fault was it then
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Booked holiday with 3 others with Snowcoach. No refunds all flatly refused within days of cancellation. All told to go to our insurers. Two have been refused by insurers and told to go back to Snowcoach. My insurers still haven’t let me know.
Snowcoach telling lead traveller who paid on her credit card that she was not to go to her credit card company. we divided cost between us all.
All down £700+ pounds each which I can I’ll afford to lose.
No offers from company of anything.
Anyone else dealing with them?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Whenever I got bumped or accepted to be bumped off a Swiss flight I always took the 250€ cash card handed to me there and then as well as they hotel, dinner vouchers and taxis. Seems they’re good if you’re in the airport and crap if not.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Nadenoodlee, we were actually on the plane ! Got the hotel ok
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Torak, if you or anyone else want to go to credit card compny you have that right. Not for snowcoach to dictate.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
@Hells Bells, beat me to it
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hells Bells wrote:
@Torak, if you or anyone else want to go to credit card compny you have that right. Not for snowcoach to dictate.


yep the CC company are JOINTLY and severally liable with the merchant!
Your right is to claim off them, not for travel company to try to dictate terms, ( belive it or not it may be that they want to avoid having funds taken off them by CC company in a way they cannot prevaricate over or fudge in some way!!!!)

you n=eed to state what service has not been provided and as much documentation as possible to back it up!

Have been through this process trying to get refund for swissair ticket, some 10 weeks after departure date. It seems a slow process, but stick at it!

Oh and the good guys were the Ski Club of Great Britain, who refunded the holiday cost within a very few days, full marks to them!
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Thank you for that info. Will pass it on to my friend who paid for it all.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Not so much a refund but british airways was good to deal with in terms of changing flights. I had booked directly with them and needed to move my flight back from Japan to a month earlier. Whilst I couldn't do this online, which they admitted I should have been able to do, they easily changed it over the phone and didn't charge me when they realised the website wouldn't let me alter it online. Very Happy
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