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Holiday cut short cos of Coronavirus

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If Nielsen was advised to close & then choose to curtail your holiday - then they should be liable, as it was simply adviserable.
If Nielsen was told to close, then they are not.

In future, always pay by credit card. Get one that gives cashback, or airmiles or hotel points or clubcard or nectar, etc.
Anything over £100 means you are protected under section 75. Even if you only pay the deposit on CC, you are still protected for the full amount.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Slippy5165 wrote:
Hi albob. Paid with debit card.


Check your bank, some debit cards have protection included.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
On the debit card point, the Visa and Mastercard schemes both have provision for dispute and chargeback.

The category for the dispute is that the merchant (in this case Neilson) failed to provide the contracted goods/service *in its entirety*.

Dispute and chargeback is not a legal right, it is a feature of the schemes designed to encourage use of these payment cards.

Your card issuer (your bank) processes the dispute on your behalf. They will need evidence from you that the merchant failed to provide the service. As this is not an entirely cut and dried case, it may go to arbitration between your bank and Neilson's bank, which can extend the timeframe to 3 months or more.

So get on to your bank, with your facts straight on dates and what you did and didn't receive.

[Payment on a credit card is different. Then, under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, your card issuer is joint and severally liable with the merchant for the provision to you of the goods/services. For transactions over £100 (and capped at £35,000 IIRC). That joint and several liability translates in practical terms to giving you a refund at the expense of the card issuer in the first instance. ]
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I work in the travel industry (not for Neilson, not in Italy so not biased!) and in my opinion these claims should be being settled by the insurance provider assuming that the tour operator have reasonably followed instructions issued to them by a provably reputable source (eg local government instruction / UK government instruction etc etc).

From your description above it sounds to me that Neilson have done this and are clear about their position. They have already discharged their liability (returned you safely to the UK) and it's now down to the insurance company to provide you with compensation for the lost days of holiday which is why they aren't claiming additional return costs but are also not refunding.

In your position I would get a catagorical written "no refund" from Neilson (which it sounds like you have got) and send this to the insurance company refuting their statement that it is down to Neilson to refund and see where you go.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

In your position I would get a catagorical written "no refund" from Neilson (which it sounds like you have got) and send this to the insurance company refuting their statement that it is down to Neilson to refund and see where you go.
+1
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Hello to joe and snow and sunshine. Thank you for this. I will contact our bank and chase up the possibility of debit card protection.
We are currently waiting for a response from Neilson to an email which I sent yesterday. I have also contacted ABTA with a view to registering a complain depending on Neilsons response.
I have also contacted the Financial Ombudsman and await their reply.
It also appears that we are covered for ‘closure of piste’ at a rate of £40 per day on our premium cover.
Reading our travel policy, it states that we are not covered for ‘ claims arising from prohibitive regulations by the government of any country’.
We really appreciate your help with this and hopefully others will benefit too.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Also contacting ATOL too.
BIKINI STATE AMBER.
Sorry tomj, auto correct wants you to be joe.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
[quote="NickyJ"]@Slippy5165, I am currently in process of claiming back my (no longer) upcoming holiday costs. I need written evidence that I can’t get refund of my flights and accommodation costs before I can claim them via the insurance. I am still waiting for that from where I bought my flights.

This is the message I have back from my request for a refund:

[quote]
We would like to inform you that we have received your request and we will get this check and shall revert as soon as the needful is done.

My god that's very India like response. Ive asked them many times to explain what they mean by "the needful". They always get flustered!!!!!!!!!
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[quote="jafa"][quote="NickyJ"]@Slippy5165, I am currently in process of claiming back my (no longer) upcoming holiday costs. I need written evidence that I can’t get refund of my flights and accommodation costs before I can claim them via the insurance. I am still waiting for that from where I bought my flights.

This is the message I have back from my request for a refund:

Quote:

We would like to inform you that we have received your request and we will get this check and shall revert as soon as the needful is done.

My god that's very India like response. Ive asked them many times to explain what they mean by "the needful". They always get flustered!!!!!!!!!


It reminds me of the bit from "Warship" on BBC 2 this week.

For those that didn't there was an "interaction" between and Iranian Gunship and a British Destroyer protecting a British Tanker through the Straits of Hormuz, after some posturing by both sides the Iranian Gunship retreated and as they did so sent a radio message to the British Warship to say "because of your poor English we did not understand what you were doing"
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Update. ATOL only covers oh if the Travel company goes bust which is what I thought but it’s good to check.
Great info from tomj re debit card chargeback protection.
My bank are now lodging a claim against Neilson for failing to supply the services paid for as we had no choice but to end our holiday. To clarify, we did not choose to come home early, we were told we were leaving and the hotel was closing.
As soon as our bank have all the detail from us, they will credit our account with the full cost of the holiday and await the outcome of the claim. The bank also said this is the first chargeback claim relating to the CV situation.
We now have to get a full breakdown of the holiday costs in order to claim for the lost accommodation cost only which is fair enough.
Another point,
Our reps in resort asked for our lift passes so they can arrange the refunds on our behalf.
If the drag their feet and the company goes under, we are unlikely to get the refund.
If you are still in a resort in this situation, I suggest you go direct to the lift kiosk for a refund.
Hope this helps others.
United we stand. Thanks tomj
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Slippy5165 wrote:
Update. ATOL only covers oh if the Travel company goes bust which is what I thought but it’s good to check.
Great info from tomj re debit card chargeback protection.
My bank are now lodging a claim against Neilson for failing to supply the services paid for as we had no choice but to end our holiday. To clarify, we did not choose to come home early, we were told we were leaving and the hotel was closing.
As soon as our bank have all the detail from us, they will credit our account with the full cost of the holiday and await the outcome of the claim. The bank also said this is the first chargeback claim relating to the CV situation.
We now have to get a full breakdown of the holiday costs in order to claim for the lost accommodation cost only which is fair enough.
Another point,
Our reps in resort asked for our lift passes so they can arrange the refunds on our behalf.
If the drag their feet and the company goes under, we are unlikely to get the refund.
If you are still in a resort in this situation, I suggest you go direct to the lift kiosk for a refund.
Hope this helps others.
United we stand. Thanks tomj


This is really poor behaviour from Neilsons.
If a company is hit with a chargeback from Visa/MasterCard they don't just have the money taken back from them they also pay a fine/charge for every charge back that happens. It's probably a poor calculation at board room level based on a certain percentage of people not putting in a claim or following anything up, it could end up costing them a lot more than just partially refunding everyone effected.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Agreed.
I have also lodged a claim with my insurer despite them telling me over the phone that they won’t pay out.
Neilson have provided me with a letter to pass on to my insurer.
We shall see what happens.
A friend of mine who is in precisely the same situation is being paid out under the curtailment clause. He obviously has a different insurance company.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Slippy5165, name and shame! Useful info for when people come to renew.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Tirol ends ski season this Sunday. All lifts to close.

LH Platter: „Tirol beendet die Wintersaison“
Schließung aller Seilbahnen mit Ablauf Sonntag, 15. März


Nach einer Besprechung mit VertreterInnen des Tiroler Tourismus wurde heute entschieden, dass die Seilbahnen mit Ablauf Sonntag, 15. März 2020, auf Basis des Epidemiegesetzes geschlossen werden. Ebenso werden alle Beherbergungsbetriebe mit Ablauf Montag, 16. März 2020, behördlich geschlossen. Hierfür wurde deshalb der Montag gewählt, damit eine geordnete Rückreise der Gäste aus den Skigebieten erfolgen kann. „Für uns steht die Gesundheit unserer Gäste, MitarbeiterInnen und der Tiroler Bevölkerung an erster Stelle. Diese Entscheidung ist uns nicht leicht gefallen, aber wir übernehmen Verantwortung für alle TirolerInnen und für alle, die sich in Tirol aufhalten“, so Landeshauptmann und Tourismusreferent Günther Platter.

Details werden bei einer Pressekonferenz morgen, Freitag um 10.00 Uhr, in der Säulenhalle im Landhaus in Innsbruck bekannt gegeben, zu der wir hiermit einladen.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
My travel insurance company is Rock Insurance Services Ltd and the product is big blue cover.com
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Slippy5165, thanks.

So far the Nationwide Flexplus is looking OK to pay out... obviously it could all go wrong but I am in limbo in submitting my claim due to Optiontown avoiding my request for refund by trying to send me back to BA to get alternative flights.... we like to where!?!! However much I would love us to be skiing I can’t see anywhere being open come the 4th April!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I think my friends insurance is also Nationwide.
Hope you get a good outcome Nickyj and your right, there won’t be any skiing anywhere very soon.
Austria are also shutting the resorts from Sunday.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
My holiday was booked with Neilson. I was meant to be going to VDI next Sat so I’ll be expecting a full refund given the resort is closed.

Good luck to everyone claiming money back!
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My business pretty.much folded last week
I was supposed to be skiing in Autria this.week but the hotel has had to close and is probably kn the edge of going under.

But I'm not fighting for my life on a ventilator.amd non of my family.

Maybe we should.stop the talk of money and refunds for a while. It all.seems in such bad taste
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
What do people think will the situation be re flights?
I guess easyJet et al can legitimately argue that the fact the resorts are shut is not a reason to refund a non taken flight and travel insurance likewise
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Most of the airlines are offering a free day/destination swap or a voucher to the value of your flight. Which in the circumstances is more than reasonable.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pieman666 wrote:
Most of the airlines are offering a free day/destination swap or a voucher to the value of your flight. Which in the circumstances is more than reasonable.


I have seen that easyJet are offering the ability to swap flights without incurring their change fee but Which airlines are offering a voucher to the value?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@bobhitch, my son had a flight booked from Turin via Amsterdam back to Newcastle. He got a voucher from KLM, and rebooked a flight for tomorrow from Marseille.
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BA are offering a voucher takes 48 hours they say but might be longer as they are so busy.
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Bad taste ??
I bought and paid for a package which consisted of 2 return flights, 2 transfers, 2 x 6 day full area lift passes and 2 x 7 nights half board accommodation.
I assume we are all familiar with the cost of these things.
I received the flights, the transfers, 2 x 2 day access to lifts and 2 x 3 nights accommodation.
I did not receive 2 x 4 day access to lifts or 2 x 4 nights accommodation.
I am not seeking compensation to line my pocket. I want a refund for the services I did not receive.
Whilst I greatly appreciate Neilson efforts in repatriating us, they have no right or reason to keep the money I paid for the services they did not supply.
Neilson are attempting to profiteer or at least minimise there losses at the expense of their customers.
Refusing the REFUND is bad taste.
Is that fair enough ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
cameronphillips2000 wrote:
My business pretty.much folded last week
I was supposed to be skiing in Autria this.week but the hotel has had to close and is probably kn the edge of going under.

But I'm not fighting for my life on a ventilator.amd non of my family.

Maybe we should.stop the talk of money and refunds for a while. It all.seems in such bad taste


What a strange sentiment. By that rationale talk of skiing and enjoying the pleasures of life are in bad taste while there are homeless people on our streets.

There are always those less fortunate, that’s life, it’s not fair but for people to want refunds is hardly bad taste.

Sorry your business has suffered.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My daughter's got a uni trip booked in a few weeks to AdH - the tour operator's still saying it "might" be going ahead, but their t&cs say that if the resort is closed they'll refund "subject to a deduction of our (unlimited) costs" - so if they can't get their money back, they won't refund. She paid on a debit card (so thanks for the tips there) and we also have insurance, so shouldn't be too much out of pocket.
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andy from embsay wrote:
My daughter's got a uni trip booked in a few weeks to AdH - the tour operator's still saying it "might" be going ahead, but their t&cs say that if the resort is closed they'll refund "subject to a deduction of our (unlimited) costs" - so if they can't get their money back, they won't refund. She paid on a debit card (so thanks for the tips there) and we also have insurance, so shouldn't be too much out of pocket.


There is no way it's going ahead: https://www.alpedhueznet.com/news/french-ski-areas-close-on-15th-march-2020-rhone-alpes-733966
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Slippy5165 wrote:
Whilst I greatly appreciate Neilson efforts in repatriating us, they have no right or reason to keep the money I paid for the services they did not supply.
Neilson are attempting to profiteer or at least minimise there losses at the expense of their customers.


Tour operators are not "profiteering" when they don't refund bookings. The entire travel industry is facing a huge drop in revenue, but many of their costs will still need to be paid (e.g. mortgage/rent/taxes on their hotel/plane/office, salaries for staff they keep on, redundancy payments for staff they don't). There's a good chance Neilson won't have saved anything from you leaving early (food already purchased, hotel staff expecting to be paid, flight ticket non-refundable) and they have booked you a second flight home at their cost and will therefore be making a loss on your holiday even before any refund is paid.

Under normal circumstances a tour operator might offer a refund as a goodwill gesture in the hope that you'll book with them again next year. If they did that for everyone affected by this then it increases the chance of the company going bust. At this stage no travel company can know how much money they will need to tide them over until normal bookings resume. It's therefore understandable that they will be carefully looking at contracts and only refunding what they are legally obliged to.

In my opinion situations like this are a key reason to have travel insurance and the insurance should pay out. I've long wondered how travel insurance can be as cheap as it is. There's too much focus on the price of the policy, and not enough on what situations it does/doesn't cover.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hi guys, thanks for some really useful info in this thread!

@Slippy5165 I think we're in the same situation as you, repatriated due to resort closure?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/634/regulation/16/made

We received a letter from Neilson in resort advising that "compensation does not apply" due to the extraordinary situation. The extraordinary situation doesn't seem to release them from their obligation to "offer the traveller an appropriate price reduction for any period during which there is a lack of conformity,"...we've complained about their initial response but not too hopeful after reading this thread...

We paid using debit card so just debating whether to pursue a chargeback which sounds like it could be a lengthy process, or see what we can get from the travel insurance.

Anyone else wish they'd booked with Crystal?!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
PS. Even this from Neilson booking conditions, "price reduction" seems due even in extraordinary circumstances:

https://www.neilson.co.uk/booking-conditions

A.12: Price reduction, compensation for damages and our liability
You will be entitled to an appropriate price reduction for any period during which there is a Failure, unless the Failure is attributable to you.

You shall be entitled to receive appropriate compensation from us for any damage you sustain as a result of a Failure except where the Failure is:

(a) attributable to you;

(b) attributable to a third party unconnected with the provision of the travel services included in the holiday and is unforeseeable or unavoidable; or

(c) due to Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@nosnow77, the way I read those terms and conditions backs up Neilson's no-refund line.

You shall be entitled to receive appropriate compensation from us for any damage you sustain as a result of a Failure except where the Failure is ... due to Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances.

World-wide lockdown is not an ordinary circumstance.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think I'll continue to book with Crystal in the future. I managed one day of skiing in Italy and got refunded 5/6ths within 3 days
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@thelem, I optimistically read it as the extraordinary circumstances clause applies to compensation, as distinct from "appropriate price reduction" in the previous line.

@dave_3, we're definitely planning to book with Crystal next year! Glad you got your refund Smile
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@nosnow77, reading it again I now agree with your interpretation, assuming failure means failure to provide the booked service.
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Update regarding ski pass refund.
After some communication between Neilson, Skipass Consorzio Impianti Fassa and myself this is the position.
The Skipass Consorzio are issuing a refund of £560 for our lift passes. The Italian side have been very helpful and always responded quickly to emails. Considering their problems, I think this is admirable and thank Silvia for her help.
The refund will go to Neilson as the passes were purchased through them when booking.
Yesterday I received an email from Jo Goode the Neilson U.K. Operations Executive in which I was told that my refund would be in the form of a voucher that must be used before the 30th of September 2020 for travel between July 2020 and October 2021. The voucher is for Neilson holidays only.
So Neilson think they can take a refund from a third party that is clearly mine, add tight restrictions to it and force me to spend it with Neilson. Not only that but they want confirmation from me that my insurer is not covering the lift passes before they will issue the voucher. Who do they think they are !
The Neilson rep in resort instructed us to hand our lift passes to her and told us that Neilson will organise the refund on our behalf and pass it onto us. Now Neilson are refusing to do this so it appears that we have been misled. If we have been misled then Neilsons actions may be viewed as fraudulent.
I have put this to Neilson and await their response.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Slippy5165,
It is quite normal for the refund to be made in the same mananer as the skipacks were bought (e.g. resort sale = resort refund) but are the Consorzio aware that Neilson are not passing on the refund in the same manner in which the Consorzio are making it to Neilson?
BTW, Neilson's account with the Consorzio is probably based on an upfront deposit and then payment against invoices.

Also, at a guess, the refund to Neilson is nett of the commission they took when selling the pass - if you want to be sticky about it, are Neilson refunding that commission as well? This is only relevant if they are not refunding at brochure price.

It looks like their financial year end is 30 November - maybe they are using vouchers so that unused vouchers can be written off for year end?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've put this link out a few times in a couple of other threads - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2018/9780111168479/contents part 3 is relevant.

This the Government legislation concerning the responsibilities of package tour companies and refunds. It is the law. If you've had a booking and it was cancelled or not delivered as described or curtailed, you are entitled to a refund within 14 days. This includes ancillary costs (i.e. ski passes) if you paid the package company for these. If they don't refund report them (authority to report to is in the legislation document) and take them to a small claims court.

Note: I haven't read the full thread here, but the legislation covers refunds not compensation which is another matter.

Crystal gave me a 5/7 no hassle refund of all costs including ski hire and pass within 3 weeks after having our holiday halted after two days in Sestriere, without me chasing them. I'll be using them again
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@Slippy,

Did you book a packaged holiday with Neilson inc Transfers, LP etc ??

'Customers who booked package holidays are now due their money back under the relevant law: Package Travel Regulations, Regulation 14 ("Refund Law").

Have a look at Moneysavingsexpert.com (Martin Lewis)..

It explains about going to your credit and debit card firm - Ask about Chargeback. It is not however a legal obligation but falls under a Customer services promise. Then section 75 (Chargeback first step).

It is interesting that Which have set up a name and shame campaign of TO's and Airlines..!

If your not getting anywhere, you could always look at the link for #RightToRefund (WWW.Change.org) it's an online petition.

I am awaiting a refund myself from a TO - which was cancelled in Austria.. As yet have been informed about a deferred holiday to April 2021 or a holiday credit voucher - but will the voucher be guaranteed? Especially if the TO goes under ?? There is a lot of conflicting info out there..

Keep us in the loop

Regards in advance

Prems..
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A friend has had her non-ski holiday cancelled before travel. It was based on Easyjet and accommodation in a "conventional" hotel (i.e. not where the TO has paid up front). My friend's TO wants to give a credit note, saying that this is in acordance with ABTA. She is going to hold out for a full refund because Easyjet has not been paid, nor the hotel. This is a completely different scenario to a small chalet operator which has paid in advance for accommodation.

"Right to Refund" has sent a legal letter to TUI demanding a £1,000 refund for a cancelled holiday it bought from a TUI customer.

If payment is not received by May 5, Right to Refund reserves the right to petition the courts for TUI to be wound up. He said he is also looking at buying up other cancelled holidays, including one worth £10,000 from Virgin Holidays, and following a similar process with them. (credit to Travelmole.com)

These are going to run and run.
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