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Breaking In Boots

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Can Any one advise me on a less painfull/quicker way of "breaking In" my New Salomon Ellipse 9's? I have fairly wide feet and the guy at the shop thinks they will be fine after the inners have thinned out where they need to. Please Either Email me at Dean.Currie1@ntlworld.com or post a message on here.. Email Prefered..
Thanks

Dean.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DeanCurrie, take them back. The shop is useless.
I would ask you to post the name of the shop, but worry about litigation.
Boots should feel fine from day one. You may need to get used to them, but they should not need "Breaking In".
If they hurt now, they will hurt more after some time on the piste.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Dean I too have wide feet and have only ever found one pair of Salomon boots that fitted, the trouble is that many shops only seem to stock salomon so try to sell you what they have in stock, boots should feel a little tight when you first buy them but not painfully so, boot inners will give a little over a couple of days wearing but after that they stabilise.
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DeanCurrie,

Whilst I don't disagree with Jonpim, I don't quite agree with him either (sorry Jonpim).

I've been told by a number of fitters that the liners need to be 'bedded in' to your foot. This is probably a more descriptive term that 'breaking in'. It's all a question of degree - & we can't judge your level of discomfort or even pain.

It's also a question of ability in that a more advanced skier may sacrifice some comfort for feel & performance whereas a beginner may want more of a comfort fit.

Did the shop do a shell test? Because they should have done. This is putting your foot in to the shell (the boot with the liner removed), with your toes touching the end of the boot & measuring the gap behind your heel. A gap of 10mm would be a serious performance fit (a racer say) & a gap of 25mm would be very much a comfort fit, almost too big. Some fitters will use their fingers to test but the better ones have a series of different diameter dowels that they use to measure the gap.

If the shop did not do a shell test then Jonpim is right & they are useless & you should take the boots back.

The problem is that if the boots feel fine in the shop then there's a very good chance that they will end up being slighty too big once the liners have been pushed in to the shape of your feet by use.

If however the fit of the boot is a complete mismatch to your foot shape, ie you have wide feet & the boot is a narrow fitting model, then Jonpim is right in that the shop is useless & you should take them back. If a person has feet of such characteristics that there is not a boot model on the market that is close then the better fitters can even stretch the outer shell in various places to suit. This is also often done for people with bunnions or similar complaints.

I have recently changed my boots (to X-Wave 9's) & it took over ten hours of wear for me to stop being aware of the 'discomfort'. However they are far from being what anyone would describe as comfortable. The reason I changed is that the boots I bought in Jan 04 which felt snug in the shop turned out to be half a size too big after three of weeks use & a steep increase in my ability. My old boots had a shell test gap of 25mm & I was starting to feel my heel rise & my feet moving around. My new boots have a shell gap of 16mm.

The buckles should only be done up lightly so it's the size & shape of the boot that's holding your foot with an even pressure. If the buckles need to be so tight that they deform the shell than this will cause painful pressure points & loss of feeling. I can ski ok with my boots undone & just the power band secured.

A factor in your 'bedding in' process is that the Ellipse model does not benefit from having a heat mouldable liner so it will take your feet longer to bed in the liners than models that do. The greater the difference in the shape of your feet to that of the liner then the longer it will take to 'bed' them in.

(Assuming that the shell size/shape is correct for your feet) I would recommend
wearing your boots at home & also do as many drislope/snowdome sessions as you can. As I said, it took me over ten hours wear for mine to bed in. Most of this was on the slopes but I also wore them for a few hours at home - not just sitting around but standing watching the TV for half hours stints in a skiing posture doing ankle flexing exercise to really work the shell & liner. Yes I looked a complete prat but the boots are designed to fit in the skiing position not sitting down.

I would also recommend that you have pre-moulded or custom footbeds fitted as the ones that come with the boots offer little or no support. During a day's skiing your foot's arch will lengthen & the front of your feet will widen which can cause discomfort, loss of feeling & even pain. If you get 'pins & needles' in the underside of your forefoot when you take the boots off then this is a sign of this movement. Footbeds give your feet the support they need to stop this happening & stop your feet from trying to move around. In fact, many problems that people think are due to boot fitting can be cured by footbeds.
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Thanks for the Reply's guys. Yes the shop did do a shell test. The length of the boot is fine. The only thing i noticed was that the width at the front of my foot. Where all the joints are had pretty much no space. Is there supposed to be> or should there be again some free space/movement. The only other real pain im getting from the boots are on the top of my arch. Not the bottom. Im not sure what this is caused by either me having flat feet and my arches having to get used to the support by"Superfeet" footbeds i have in them. Or the shell/liner putting to much pressure on that part of my foot.

Any futher advice greatly appreciated.
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Dean, I too have wide feet and I've never found a pair of Salomons that have fitted. I was told that Salomom and Noridca make their boots to fit a Mediterranean last, long and narrow which is apparently the foot type for French and Italians. Whereas Swiss and Austrian boots are made to Nordic last, shorter and narrower. There may be a germ of truth here because the only boots I've found comfortable have been Swiss or Austrian. It's also confused because Salomon do not measure feet the same way as other suppliers, they refer to cubic size. Good luck the last thing you want are ill-fitting boots and it takes a long time for the lining to compress.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ive been playing around with the boots removing everythng from the boot. i have found if i stuff some tissue at the toe of the shell then put the boot in that brings the liner back a couple of cm which is enough to bring my foot back to be more comfortable. (bad thing being that squashed my toes from the front rather than the side.. Any suggestons on how i can keep the liner as far back in the boot as possible.??
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
one question, how do you do your boots up??? A common complaint i have with Boots evey year is as soon as they have had the boot on they complain it is squashing their toes. So now i warn everybody that puts the boots on that initially your toes with hurt as the foot will slide straight into the end of the boot. I get as big a hole to get the foot in, then get them to put their foot in. then i get them to flex the boot a couple of times. then you do the buckle which above the ankle up very lightly. and then get them to flex again. this creates a lever so that the foot is actually pulled into the back of the boot. they suddenly stop moaning that the boot is too small at this point. You then do this buckle up to the required tightness ( should be able to close with finger pressure)Then i do the buckle up that holds the instep, again getting them to flex a couple of times, and do this to finger tightness. Then the top most buckle to finger tightness, and u should get about 2 digits down the back of the boot. then do the toe buckle up (well if you dont have the ellipse series of boots) again to finger tightness. then do the internal lace/power band up. I follow pretty the same routine when doing my race boots up, just so i know my foot is sitting in the boot properly. I know this will seem quite a lengthy process, but it works.

Boots give about 15% after 8 hours of wear, so a boot in shop that is a very relaxed boot with suddenly become as usewell as a wellington boot. Other factors can be the socks you are wearing, as the thick wool ones should be avoided.

From what i remember of the ellipse 9's we had in stock this year, they were heat moldable( we sold out of them in december, so long time ago that had to deal with a pair) You say they have superfeet foot beds. Are they the ones that actually came in the boot? the nasty flat foam things? If they are chuck them and get some properly moulded ones so give proper size support. What size did you get? Im interested if they fitted you in a .5?
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Ok. First the boots are on Loose. and i still get the same problems. There only on the 1st tooth. I have pretty much the same process of doing up my boots. I am wearing £16 Smartwool ski socks Light so there thin in places but nice were they need to be. And yes they are heat mouldable, the little hoover thingy.. Had that done twice.. And finnaly Yes the boot size is 26.5 which is 8 in uk. i was surprised as im a 10 in shoes/trainers... So whats with the .5 part Ringaminga?
Quote:

Im interested if they fitted you in a .5?


Oh and the innersoles that came with them are straight out and the Green Ski Superfeet foot beds went in.
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DeanCurrie, when you put on your boots, do this:

  1. while they are loose, grab the top of the liner and flex forward (fold your ankle joint), pressing your heel into the pocket as you do this. Repeat 2-3 times. You should feel your foot move back into the boot.
  2. buckle the second foot buckle first, again letting it push your foot back. Don't buckle too tightly.
  3. buckle the toe, then the lower leg buckle and then the upper leg buckle.
  4. flex forward again, then tighten to comfortable snugness.

At this point, the boots will likely fit differently than they have been. Report back.

There are mods you might want to do depending on your skill level, but this is a start. WTFH may have ideas, too.
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Dean

Sound like you've tried pretty much everything!

With regard to your Superfeet footbeds - they do take some getting used to. In fact they recommend you wear them for a while in your trainers to get used to them. What colour are they? The green ones are for 'standard' insteps but there is a lower one, blue I think, for more flatter arches.

I think it is true what David says about different manufacturers making different fitting boots etc. Snow & Rock list the Ellipse as medium fit for heels width, forefoot width & arch height. It could be that your forefoot is just too wide for the shell.

If this is the case I think you only have two options. Either replace the boots or have the shells stretched.

If I can make a recommendation prior to either of the above. Telephone Hamish at Profeet on the Kings Road in London (he's 'the' ski boot fitting guru) & explain your problem to him. If anyone can help you he can.

Good luck.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
the .5 basically means its a wider last. a 26 and a 26.5 will be the same length, just the .5 will have the width. so thats not a problem.

Not agreeing with ssh method of doing up a boot. Apart from the method i explained being the one that 4 boot manufacturers have told me every year when i get the seminar on there new products, but is taught method in both the shops i have worked, one being a large national chain( although with their poor reputation) and also in a county level chain ski shop.

The foot is not being pulled the the furthest point back in the boot and being held there. Doing the instep buckle up first just holds the foot down, and doesnt hold the foot back so the foot will not stay in the back of the boot when you move to do up the other buckles. When you stand up in a boot your foot will slide forward. so holding the foot as far back as possible is the best method, so your toes do not squash in the end, and your foot sit in the correct position on the foot bed ( as a side line, the nordica boots last season had a section cut out round the toe replaced with neurothene so there was so stretch in the foot of the liner)
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The shop if it has any repuation should offer a comfort protection where they either will do everything they can do to fit change your boots or give you a refund. I would wait till next season to buy yiour boots. by this time of year the shop just has a couple of random pairs of boots so you get crammed into what ever boot is close enough to your size with no consideration of fit. By march i was telling many customers in the shop i work, that they had left it too late to get boots for the easter holiday as we had next to nothing left and people buying in the sale were very disapointed as we only had extreme sizes left in about 3 boots out of the line of about 15 we started the season with
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Dean I get the same pain under the foot, I have found that putting a heel riser inside the boot shell but under the liner gives a more comfortable stance, typically about 6mm of heel lift seems to work for me, I suspect that those of us with flater feet need the raise of heel to shift our ballance point over the ball of the foot without that you end up putting pressure through the arch which is the wrong place and so hurts. Also make sure your heels are in the back of the boot there can be a tendancy to slip foward in the boot before tightening the buckles which can result in broken toenails, very painful ! Unfortunately risers really need to be put in before the boot is fitted to the foot

I did do a webpage on boot fitting tips for someone else so here is the link

Ski Boot Fitting
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks again guys for all the tips. i will give them a try asap at the local dry slope.
I will let you know what happens D G Orf, Interesting about the heel riser i will try that too thanks..
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