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Help me to improve - dry slopes

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hey guys,
Last month I have posted a thread Help me to improve
And you helped me so much!
I will go skiing in 2 weeks and I’m training on dry slopes to be better. I’ll have more 3 training on dry slope until I’ll go skiing.
For those who doesn’t know dry slope - it’s more difficult than snow, it has more friction, and every little mistake you have will be more noticeable.
I’ve notice that when I turn right, my right leg (inside leg) isn’t in the same angle as me left leg, like the knee is going inside and it causes pain in my right knee.

My left turn:, both skis in the same angle.

My right turn: left ski is fine, right ski no angle.


Here is a video from my last session (I was a bit tired because it was recorded after 30 min of workout)

dry slope
Please advice me on how to improve and what am I doing wrong, and how can I fix that.
Many thanks guys!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There is one thing you could try:

When you are ready to turn, take the weight off the tail of the D/Hill ski and tip this unweighted ski downhill into the new direction. This means that the knee of the now unweighted D/hill ski, leads you into the turn.

The turning ski (with the weight on it), should follow it into the turn automatically. What this does, is get the knee, of what will be the U/hill ski, working to the correct angle, right at the start of the turn, rather than becoming inactive and causing an A-Frame.

As with anything I say, it should ideally be run by your Instructor.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Probably too much weight on the inside ski. It’s not easy on a rolling slope as you have no momentum to balance forces against so can tend to use the inside leg to stop falling over.

One way to increase your inside ski / leg angle is to focus that leg on applying pressure with the little toe. It forces you to de-weight that leg and tip it on edge. There’s a lot of information around by Harland Harb on little toe edging and the phantom movement.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
olderscot wrote:
Probably too much weight on the inside ski. It’s not easy on a rolling slope as you have no momentum to balance forces against so can tend to use the inside leg to stop falling over.

One way to increase your inside ski / leg angle is to focus that leg on applying pressure with the little toe. It forces you to de-weight that leg and tip it on edge. There’s a lot of information around by Harland Harb on little toe edging and the phantom movement.

As you probably realised, my post above is taken from the H. Harb method.

Normally, the attention is focused on the U/hill ski and what it does, just prior to turning ie. Get your weight on to it early and tip it into the turn.

What Harb does, is change the emphasis over to the D/hill ski, prior to the turn.....where you start the turn by unweighting it and tipping it into the turn first. It has the effect of weighting the U/hill ski, which then follows the unweighted ski into the turn automatically...but because you are concentrating on rolling it onto the Little Toe Edge, it is finding its edge angle early.

When looking at someone skiing like this, it looks like both legs are changing edges at the same time - but in slow motion, you'd see the d/hill knee tipping slightly sooner than the knee of the turning ski.


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 6-03-20 11:28; edited 1 time in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Following Harb is a road to nowhere IMO.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
rob@rar wrote:
Following Harb is a road to nowhere IMO.

So do you have another method/drill/tip to help me?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Focus on getting balanced on the outside ski as you start the turn. Until that happens consistently there are going to be some turns where your inside ski gets a bit squirmy. Don’t worry too much about that, just focus on your outside ski and the inside ski will generally look after itself. When you develop better lateral Lance you can then tweak the inside ski as necessary.

The triuble with Harb is that his devotees tend to become one trick ponies, not well equipped to ski all the mountain in all snow conditions.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rob@rar wrote:


The triuble with Harb is that his devotees tend to become one trick ponies, not well equipped to ski all the mountain in all snow conditions.

Overall, I agree with that - but personally, I was not suggesting buying into the whole Harb method (which is why I didn't mention him in my first post) - only one small element, that "may" get the edge of the unweighted ski working along side the other one.

Thinking of leading the turn, with the knee of what will become the U/hill ski, is something I've seen promoted by other Instructors, in order to get both skis working together. It may provide the breakthrough the OP is looking for - or it may not.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Old Fartbag, an errant inside ski is usually a symptom of not being well enough balanced on the outside ski (when skiing on firm snow). If you focus on the inside ski to try and fix it, you are simply addressing the symptom, not the cause. Develop lateral balance so you can get on to the outside ski efficiently are the start of the turn and you normally sort on any inside ski issues. You can then fine tune any remaining issues with the inside ski, but only when you have developed a solid platform at the start of the turn.

In this particular case the OP is occasionally hesitant and often not fully committed to his outside ski at the start of the turn, pushing and twisting it. What we see with the inside ski is a symptom of that.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
rob@rar wrote:
Focus on getting balanced on the outside ski as you start the turn. Until that happens consistently there are going to be some turns where your inside ski gets a bit squirmy. Don’t worry too much about that, just focus on your outside ski and the inside ski will generally look after itself. When you develop better lateral Lance you can then tweak the inside ski as necessary.

The triuble with Harb is that his devotees tend to become one trick ponies, not well equipped to ski all the mountain in all snow conditions.


I agree with you. I have a session right now, and I feel that when I have to shift the weight to the left leg because it will be the d/hill ski I tend to struggle with it. I tried to focus just on that, and I think that this is my main problem. Do you have an idea how to fix it? It’s mainly with my left leg, I don’t know why it’s so hard for me, because on the right ski I don’t feel it that way..
thanks!
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@beny992, reading your posts, can you get yourself lessons in a normal dry ski slope or snowdome?

I can definitely recommend my local dry ski slope (Snowtrax), though obviously don’t know how “local” that is to you?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
beny992 wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
Focus on getting balanced on the outside ski as you start the turn. Until that happens consistently there are going to be some turns where your inside ski gets a bit squirmy. Don’t worry too much about that, just focus on your outside ski and the inside ski will generally look after itself. When you develop better lateral Lance you can then tweak the inside ski as necessary.

The triuble with Harb is that his devotees tend to become one trick ponies, not well equipped to ski all the mountain in all snow conditions.


I agree with you. I have a session right now, and I feel that when I have to shift the weight to the left leg because it will be the d/hill ski I tend to struggle with it. I tried to focus just on that, and I think that this is my main problem. Do you have an idea how to fix it? It’s mainly with my left leg, I don’t know why it’s so hard for me, because on the right ski I don’t feel it that way..
thanks!
Understand the problem and focus on the solution is the best that I can offer. It will come, probably quickly. I’m reluctant to suggest any drills as I’ve never taught on a rolling carpet, beyond simply focusing on standing on your outside ski to start the turn.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar wrote:
@Old Fartbag, an errant inside ski is usually a symptom of not being well enough balanced on the outside ski (when skiing on firm snow). If you focus on the inside ski to try and fix it, you are simply addressing the symptom, not the cause. Develop lateral balance so you can get on to the outside ski efficiently are the start of the turn and you normally sort on any inside ski issues. You can then fine tune any remaining issues with the inside ski, but only when you have developed a solid platform at the start of the turn.

In this particular case the OP is occasionally hesitant and often not fully committed to his outside ski at the start of the turn, pushing and twisting it. What we see with the inside ski is a symptom of that.

Speaking for myself (which may be of help to the OP):

- I learned in the 70s/80s, which focused on the knee of the D/hill ski. The U/hill ski was only seen as an outrigger - and the only thing you had to worry about, is that it didn't have any weight on it. This promoted a pronounced A-Frame, which was seen as OK....but limited progression.

- IMO. The modern way of skiing, rightly involves having 2 skis, working together and changing edges at the same time and to the same degree....for me, this is the gateway to expert skiing - as without it, you can't ski powder, bumps or become a decent piste skier.

- The upshot of this, is that I had an ingrained A Frame problem....and personally found just balancing on the outside ski didn't do it "for me". If I don't actively concentrate on working the unweighted ski, it sneaks back into being a bit A-Frame. In the past, Instructors have suggested imagining skiing with a small beach ball between my knees, or maintaining a slight O-Frame.

- I fully admit, that I am talking about myself and what has helped me. What I suggested above, still involves early weight transfer and balancing on the outside ski - the only thing imo that has changed, is what you concentrate on. This change of "mental" emphasis can work (imo), if other methods are failing.

- If good Instruction can solve the problem, then that is great - but if taking a different approach helps solve the problem, then happy days.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@rob@rar, Part 2 of my rather long-winded reply, but it may give insight into where I'm coming from.

- I'm now in my 6th decade of skiing - and I am not trying to equate years of skiing as a sensible measure of technical ability - which has taught me one overall lesson, which is that there is no one system, or teaching method that has a monopoly on what is "Right" and these methods/systems are always evolving (usually for the better).

- One of the things I found so confusing, when I only had a few weeks under my belt, is that what I was taught in one Country, was summarily dismissed in another. What I didn't realise at the time, was that little of what I was being taught was wrong per se, only different.

- Personally, I like your approach, which is No Nonsense, Patient and Thoughtful....it is, of course based on the BASI system. I don't say this to come across as any way dismissive....If I had to choose one system, it would be BASI (and my most productive lessons have all been with BASI Instructors).

- However, I think there are elements of other systems that have merit. Anything I recommend, is something that I personally have found useful in overcoming a problem, or fully incorporate in my skiing.
If you think of a given problem, then I have had it at one time or another - and my skiing is still far from perfect. It couldn't be anything else on 1 week per year.

- As somebody that doesn't teach skiing, it is slightly daunting, coming on a ski forum and commenting on a small video clip (as I could be totally wrong and look like an idiot)...and this is where it is comforting to have people like yourself on board, to pull up incorrect, or inappropriate (for the level) suggestions.
I do it, as it is often something I'm working on, or have had to correct...and enjoy the challenge of the diagnosis. If it has helped me, then it may be of use to someone else.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Old Fartbag, I think it's always useful to share experience, no matter where we are coming from, no matter what we bring to the discussion.

On this particular issue, I can't recall seeing someone who was good at getting well balanced on their outside ski in the setup phase of the turn who also had a significant problem managing their inside ski. It might be someone has a slight A frame, which can be worked on once the basics are in place, although I think the problems associated with a bit of an A frame are overstated, certainly for skiers early on in their skiing career. I've used the kinds of suggestions that you made about leading with the inside knee, but for more experienced skiers who are just looking to fine tune their movement patterns in certain situations, rather than develop their core skills. As with many things, we need to learn to walk efficiently before we can become good runners...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar wrote:
@Old Fartbag, I think it's always useful to share experience, no matter where we are coming from, no matter what we bring to the discussion.

On this particular issue, I can't recall seeing someone who was good at getting well balanced on their outside ski in the setup phase of the turn who also had a significant problem managing their inside ski. It might be someone has a slight A frame, which can be worked on once the basics are in place, although I think the problems associated with a bit of an A frame are overstated, certainly for skiers early on in their skiing career. I've used the kinds of suggestions that you made about leading with the inside knee, but for more experienced skiers who are just looking to fine tune their movement patterns in certain situations, rather than develop their core skills. As with many things, we need to learn to walk efficiently before we can become good runners...

....and this is what I respect about your approach.

I skied with an A-Frame, of varying degrees of "A-ness" for years....and I agree that there are other issues that should take priority when getting to grips with the basics. In my case, the more I match the angle of the 2 skis and feel both skis working under me, the more secure I feel and the better I ski.

I hope my posts are technically sound - but I can only bow to your expertise and experience when it comes to the suitability of any suggestions, for the level of the skier they are aimed at.

I am somebody that likes to understand a given position, so once it's explained (as you have above) with a little detail, it allows me to see the reasoning of it.....it's the best way to shut me up. Toofy Grin
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Old Fartbag wrote:
...it's the best way to shut me up. Toofy Grin
I do hope not!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@beny992,
Don't get too hung up on trying perfect your technique before you get on the mountain.
By all means train away with what you are doing there, at least you are practising standing on your skis and all that goes with it.

When you get to the mountains get yourself into some group lessons with a good instructor and enjoy the learning experience. Learning to ski is great fun, especially in a good group.
Plus you are doing the right sort of stuff to get ready for your lessons.

Skiing on snow is completely different to all these artificial surfaces... its better Smile
Enjoy your holiday!
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
DrLawn wrote:
@beny992,
Don't get too hung up on trying perfect your technique before you get on the mountain.
By all means train away with what you are doing there, at least you are practising standing on your skis and all that goes with it.

When you get to the mountains get yourself into some group lessons with a good instructor and enjoy the learning experience. Learning to ski is great fun, especially in a good group.
Plus you are doing the right sort of stuff to get ready for your lessons.

Skiing on snow is completely different to all these artificial surfaces... its better Smile
Enjoy your holiday!


I guess you haven’t read my previous post.
I have been skiing for totals 6 weeks. Just got some lessons on dry slope to improve my technique for the next time I’ll go skiing. Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@beny992, You're right I didn't bother reading your previous post.
I learnt to ski on a dry slope after spending a few seasons phaafing about getting nowhere ..
We are talking about back in the 70's
The slope was a Dendex slope at Welwyn Garden City, it looks like your dry slope is some sort of rolling mat.. am I right?

I have tried something like that .. but it was only about 9 square metres.
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@beny992, I am not a ski coach so perhaps my words should not be taken too seriously but I think you are simply going too slow. Can you increase the angle of the belt and increase its speed? If not then enroll with some lessons at a proper dendix dry slope.
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