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British skier beaten unconscious by snowboarder

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This has been discussed relentlessly, when it first happened and subsequently, so I'm not going to say any more and the crashes etc and who was at fault.
But in relation to the original content of this post - do any of you think the father was justified to hit the snowboarder, who was probably a minor, with a ski ? I certainly don't and this action says a lot about him and his attitudes to others IMO.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DB wrote:
@Legend.,
No I‘m not saying sod rule 7. People will be stationary in the middle of the piste because they fall over etc. Looks like you are saying if the boarder hadn‘t of hit the kid everything would have been OK. Dangerous driving is ok as long as you don’t have a crash? Yes the kid and father were at fault too, I just put the majority of the blame on the boarder. In no way am I saying that the father hitting the boarder was the proper response either.


I'm fine with that, and I agree. But people saying the boarder is totally at fault are wrong.

I think the element of blame that we attribute to each party will vary from person to person but to say it is solely one of the other is wrong.

Also agree that the boarder is breaking 'the rules' in the way he is boarding.

But it's still the dad that pisses me off the most in the instance.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 13-02-20 17:49; edited 1 time in total
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Bones wrote:
This has been discussed relentlessly, when it first happened and subsequently, so I'm not going to say any more and the crashes etc and who was at fault.
But in relation to the original content of this post - do any of you think the father was justified to hit the snowboarder, who was probably a minor, with a ski ? I certainly don't and this action says a lot about him and his attitudes to others IMO.


Absolutely not
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I'm thinking of bringing my new idea onto Dragon's Den. It's a Jacket made from Bubble Wrap. It will be light, cheap as chips and the air pockets will provide insulation.....but like a helmet, it will need replaced after an impact.

Unlike a helmet, it will be blindingly (ear poppingly?) obvious that it needs replaced.

Anyone prepared to be a Guinea Pig?
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Riccardo wrote:
Boarder totally at fault. He gave himself zero margin of error and events conspired against him. The expectation that everyone below you will remain as still as a statue until you pass is unreasonable. If taking avoiding action sends you towards other people, bail out, don't try to slalom through them.


rubbish
the kid done the equivalent of stepping out onto a busy road without looking
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Legend. wrote:
DB wrote:
@Legend.,
No I‘m not saying sod rule 7. People will be stationary in the middle of the piste because they fall over etc. Looks like you are saying if the boarder hadn‘t of hit the kid everything would have been OK. Dangerous driving is ok as long as you don’t have a crash? Yes the kid and father were at fault too, I just put the majority of the blame on the boarder. In no way am I saying that the father hitting the boarder was the proper response either.


I'm fine with that, and I agree. But people saying the boarder is totally at fault are wrong.

I think the element of blame that we attribute to each party will vary from person to person but to say it is solely one of the other is wrong.

Also agree that the boarder is breaking 'the rules' in the way he is boarding.

But it's still the dad that pisses me off the most in the instance.


Looks like we pretty much agree.
Before the crash I'd give the boarder 90% of the fault.
After the collision I'd give the father 100% of the fault.
There's no way a grown man should be hitting anyone after a crash on the slopes let alone a 15 year old child.
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Mr.Egg wrote:
Riccardo wrote:
Boarder totally at fault. He gave himself zero margin of error and events conspired against him. The expectation that everyone below you will remain as still as a statue until you pass is unreasonable. If taking avoiding action sends you towards other people, bail out, don't try to slalom through them.


rubbish
the kid done the equivalent of stepping out onto a busy road without looking


Yes but onto a road where someone was dangerous driving at high speed in the gutter.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
@zikomo, Nice simplistic world you live in. Well done. But we've had this debate before and you weren't persuaded then either. Maybe one day someone will jump switch from tree cover onto a cattrack you are on and you'll be hit (happened to me last year). Then you'll appreciate the importance of rule 5. Until then.....


and like we said before you know nothing about how I ski but keep up the ad homs anyway....


Yes we have. You are still wrong. And I did not then and do now buy your description of your level and ability. It is too far at odds with your attitude and the level of understanding you exhibit here. I have never heard such tosh from any genuinely advanced skier and certainly not from anyone qualified to a reasonable level. Ski within your ability, taking account of terrain and traffic, and you will find you massively reduce the number of incidents and close shaves you clearly suffer just now.

And your point about someone jumping switch from tree cover being somehow relatable to this debate is almost too asinine to respond to.
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I have been that idiot.

I jumped onto a cat track while skiing through trees many years ago. Stopped, looked up and was hit by a boarder who was trying his damnedest to put the anchors on. No injury to either party, but my boot buckle knackered one of his edges.

He was uphill. Was it his fault?

According to most of the above: yes.

But I still bought his board off him, repaired it and resold it.
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@zikomo, I'm not describing anything about my ability. And I've never actually collided with anyone rather than being collided into. I skied over one person's skis once who had set off blind from cover at point blank range while I was comfortably avoiding the person they were hiding behind. But judge away because I view all the FIS rules as equivalent in importance.....

And in view of the number of days I've skied and boarded I don't think my stats are particularly punchy...
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@Mosha Marc,

If you ski from offpiste onto the piste in such a way that a skier or boarder has no time/chance to avoid you then you are at fault. I generally take the speed out and look uphill while joining the piste giving the piste users right of way. Similar to how I join a motorway from the slip road.

Good on you for sorting his board out though.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Tough call. Boarder simply should not have been there, wrong line choice way too many risks both snow quality and people around. BUT the kid does step out right in front of him without looking. Father should have shown leadership and protected child. Both parties at fault.

Always look up cat tracks before dropping in from trees!!!

I had a tit step out blind in front of me on a cat track this season. Dodged him but did result in a wtf are you doing arguement! I believe if you step out blind you're equally at fault. I don't buy the uphill skiier is at fault arguement.

Also, why do beginner snowboarders stop behind rollers and are invisible??!!! I've shouted at a few people this season who did this. Could decapitate someone, and it would be my fault......
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Mosha Marc wrote:
I have been that idiot.

I jumped onto a cat track while skiing through trees many years ago. Stopped, looked up and was hit by a boarder who was trying his damnedest to put the anchors on. No injury to either party, but my boot buckle knackered one of his edges.

He was uphill. Was it his fault?

According to most of the above: yes.

But I still bought his board off him, repaired it and resold it.

I've done it once, exactly once. No collision.

But in retrospect, I understood how and why it happened.

I was skiing through trees, looking for the next open space between trees. One tree, next tree, next tree, in a rhythm. Suddenly, the next "space between trees" is actually the cat track!

Putting my brakes on as best as I could, narrowly avoiding hitting or being hit by a few slope users coming down the track. I felt... well, like an idiot that I was!

I learned my lesson. When the tight trees opens up, it could be a clearing, or it could be a piste! SLOW DOWN and look!
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You know it makes sense.
Quote:

Also, why do beginner snowboarders stop behind rollers and are invisible??!!!

Because they have misjudged stopping on the crest, or, more likely got the pitch wrong on the steeper side, panicked a bit and fallen on their transition turn, which to the uninitiated can look like sitting down sometimes. I'm sure they appreciated you slowing down to make sure they were ok, and your adherence to rule number 1. The one rule that, if it was followed by us all, would make all the others, and this whole thread, obsolete.

Respect for others.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

why do beginner snowboarders stop behind rollers and are invisible??!!!

When skier stop, they stop standing up. Far more visible than boarders sitting down.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

Also, why do beginner snowboarders stop behind rollers and are invisible??!!!


I would think it's more to do with the ease of starting moving again, plus if you sit on a slope your feet + board naturally are below you making it easier to stand up - not having any poles. Why though the need to be in the middle is a different matter.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bones wrote:
Quote:

Also, why do beginner snowboarders stop behind rollers and are invisible??!!!


I would think it's more to do with the ease of starting moving again, plus if you sit on a slope your feet + board naturally are below you making it easier to stand up - not having any poles. Why though the need to be in the middle is a different matter.

It's really a lack of experience.

I ski with a pair of very experienced boarder mates frequently. They never sit down. In fact, they rarely stop!

An ideal place for a boarder to stop is a flat top. Easy to stay put while remain standing. And if they stop very close to the edge, it took no effort to get going again. (But if you have a group of boarders, sometimes you can't find a flat top big enough for all of them)
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DB wrote:
@Mosha Marc,

If you ski from offpiste onto the piste in such a way that a skier or boarder has no time/chance to avoid you then you are at fault. I generally take the speed out and look uphill while joining the piste giving the piste users right of way. Similar to how I join a motorway from the slip road.

Good on you for sorting his board out though.


I knew it was my fault, even though he was the "uphill" skier. No argument.

Although if his mates had hit me with a ski I don't think I'd have felt so compelled to sort him out.
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Last year, as a snowboarder, I stopped off the edge of a piste, well out of harms way, and then a skier acquaintance stopped on the piste a few metres away, and proceeded to chat to me. A high speed skier then slammed their anchors on, but still collided (at non-serious-injury speeds) into my acquaintance. First I knew about it was an almighty explosion of white powder...

Now, perhaps this is a case where a snowboarder causes an accident, even though they are off piste, by seducing skiers into becoming hazards?
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Quote:

by seducing skiers

Seductive, the power of the dark side is...
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None of my observations have been based on wether the uphill person is a skier or boarder. Makes not a jot of difference. The boarder in the vid is TOTALLY to blame, as is @Mosha Marc, for his accident. And fair play, he didn't duck out of responsibility for his mistake. As far as i am concerned, this isn't a boarder vs skier argument, no matter what DOM says.
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@crosbie, were you playing Barry White on the buds at the time.
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Richard_Sideways wrote:
Quote:

Also, why do beginner snowboarders stop behind rollers and are invisible??!!!

Because they have misjudged stopping on the crest, or, more likely got the pitch wrong on the steeper side, panicked a bit and fallen on their transition turn, which to the uninitiated can look like sitting down sometimes. I'm sure they appreciated you slowing down to make sure they were ok, and your adherence to rule number 1. The one rule that, if it was followed by us all, would make all the others, and this whole thread, obsolete.

Respect for others.


I did exactly this once in Whistler, and recieved the most polite instruction on why I was in error from a nice Canadian chap. Rule 1 in action.
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@thecramps, since when did I say it was a boarder v skier argument. I pointed out some reactionary old BS in the Hatemail that's all.
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I have done dad duty with a 3/4 year old. Honestly, once you have wrestled 15-20kg of wriggling flesh from a slidy surface while on two moving contraptions, you are a sweaty mess! The last thing you are thinking of is that some knobber is going to whizz by just past your lug. 100% snowboarder at fault. Twatting him repeatedly with a ski was overkill, I will grant you.
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@what...snow, sorry not 100% his fault. This notion that you can step out into a piste without looking and blame the person who hit you is ridiculous. While I have sympathy for dad (and kid), I don't care how sweaty dad or mum is, the kid stepped out without looking up the hill. Dad should have managed that risk, he is just as much at fault as the boarder. Imagine this was a road with cars....is the car at fault or dad for not stopping kid.....the concept that person behind is always 100% at fault is flawed.
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Time to move on! snowHead
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@LittleBullet, wrong analogy there. The dad and child are in the middle of the piste, not joining. It isn’t possible to see from the clip how fast they are going or if they are stopped. The snowboarder (obviously a he) is already on the edge of control right at the start of the clip, barely misses a skier to his left, but rather than slowing down, goes for a gap that isn’t there, which he then finds disappears as circumstances evolve. Fully deserves a telling off. Sorry@Hyst, not letting that dangerous nonsense slide.
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@what...snow, I think it’s fairly clear from the clip that the dad and kid are stationary. In the middle of the piste. The kid then sets off without looking.
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dode, agree its fairly clear they are stood still, also the father is facing the opposite direction to which his child moves off to, and not checking to see if its clear for the child to move off.

Remember the snowboarder is also a minor, yes he has blame, but he did stay at the scene and then go to ski patrol to report it, rather than just get out of there. If the snowboarder was your son how would you feel about the adult treating him like he did ?

Btw anyone in Utah skiing/snowboarding if involved in an incident must stay at the scene, give all relevant details etc and treat it as you would a car accident - this is Utah law. I would suspect a lot of out of state visitors would be unaware of these regulations.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Hyst wrote:
Time to move on! snowHead


Perhaps the thread should be renamed "British skier beaten unconscious by snowheads thread"?
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Having just read through this thread I am left with two questions

1. If violence is the answer what was the question?

2. Do those people who want to give a piece of their mind to someone else have any of their mind left after so much generosity?
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ski3 wrote:
It was probably Kosmoz wot done it Laughing usually pretty angry about something.


possible, but not this time. Since it is reported to be a gingerbearded man, I think it was Connor McGregor Very Happy
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Quite embarrassing getting a hiding off a gingerbread man.
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Once I hit a novice skier from behind, wiped him off completely. I was too fast for my skills at that time, he was skiing in unpredictable trajectory. Nobody hurt but my board base, I knew it was my fault, he thought it was his, since nobody hurt - shook each other hands and went off.

was hit by skiers like 4 times, but only one time I ended up falling. They fell every time. And my GF was wiped off like three times by novice skiers. It's so easy on skis to start skiing relatively fast, faster than able to control. She really dislikes skiers Laughing
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@kosmoz,
Quote:

It's so easy on skis to start skiing relatively fast, faster than able to control

Absolutely the crux of the matter.
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Hurtle wrote:
@kosmoz,
Quote:

It's so easy on skis to start skiing relatively fast, faster than able to control

Absolutely the crux of the matter.

It is.

I was taught by an Instructor, with a racing background, who promoted the idea that you should start skiing every slope above a certain difficulty, as if it's steeper than you think it is. This way you can always adjust your speed from a position of control.

That Instructor is called Aaron Cassells (from NI as it happens) and is with Progression Ski in Val D'Isere.
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Hurtle wrote:
@kosmoz,
Quote:

It's so easy on skis to start skiing relatively fast, faster than able to control

Absolutely the crux of the matter.


Actually I think I'd more...
It's so easy on snow to start traveling faster than you're able to control.

Doesn't matter how you choose to slide.
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@adithorp, not sure. I'm not generally aware of snowboarders going at hairy speeds. Perhaps this is a false perception.
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Has anyone heard how the bloke that got is ?
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