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Rooms for those who identify as female* (cis, trans, intersex and non-binary)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@clarky999,
Quote:

It's pretty irrelevent to this thread

Hats off to you for knowing what might be relevant to this thread. There are more tangential comments than I've had hot dinners!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Clarky the definition of homosexual is:

homosexual
/ˌhɒmə(ʊ)ˈsɛkʃʊəl,ˌhəʊmə(ʊ)ˈsɛkʃʊəl/

adjective
sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.

noun
a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

It has NOTHING to do with gender identity, or anything else. It is about sex. Biological, binary sex. That is literally the definition of homosexual. If a lesbian is attracted to an XY male they are at the most bisexual, and not a lesbian. Out of interest, assuming you are a hetrosexual male, would you consider dating a transwoman with a pen is if you found them attractive before seeing them naked?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
clarky999 wrote:
Most attractions occur before seeing the other person naked, for a start.

Isn't there a Channel 4 dating series that explores this premise? Very Happy
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Just thought I would add in some stats for discussion/thought

Click the image for the full set - didn't want to create a scrolling monstrosity for everyone

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hurtle wrote:
@clarky999,
Quote:

It's pretty irrelevent to this thread

Hats off to you for knowing what might be relevant to this thread. There are more tangential comments than I've had hot dinners!


Please don't derail the thread by bringing food into it.














Are you including cooked breakfasts and lunches in this? Or purely hot evening meals? Laughing
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justabod wrote:
.

Essentially your point was that any concerns someone might have about sharing a room with a man who says they are female are only in the minds of bigots.



Nope that isn't my point at all. My point as you seem to have missed it is that any concerns that "someone" might have depend on that "someone" alone and are better dealt with on a case by case basis rather than what some (ususally) grumpy white males believe should be their concerns and want to pre-emptively protect them against.

It's not that hard is it, some cis males are able to share a lunch, dinner or even a private space with cis females on a platonic basis without raping, perving on or otherwise threatening the females (although clearly not Mike Pence). Yet we accept that single women may prefer to be a public place when meeting (stranger) men for the first time, without deciding that all private interactions between a man and woman are dangerous outside of a declared relationship.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 8-11-19 15:50; edited 1 time in total
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Quote:

gender appears to be a choice.


Some people think sexuality is a choice too...
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Stinkpickle wrote:


It has NOTHING to do with gender identity, or anything else. It is about sex. Biological, binary sex. That is literally the definition of homosexual. If a lesbian is attracted to an XY male they are at the most bisexual, and not a lesbian. Out of interest, assuming you are a hetrosexual male, would you consider dating a transwoman with a pen is if you found them attractive before seeing them naked?


A few points, but:

I have seen beautiful women on the street and online who I have found attractive, and later found out they had male genitalia.

I am sure lesbians have also.

Sexuality can be fluid, and being lesbian or bisexual at one point in time does not preclude one from changing or being the other at another point in time.

For myself, well never say never, but I can't envision it. However that 1. wouldn't preclude a sexual attraction being there initially; 2. is just me and doesn't neccessarily apply to anyone/everyone else; 3, according to a few trans activists it seems that actually many heterosexual men do seek out sexual encounters with transpeople, because, to put it as bluntly as the activists do, they think they might have better 'pint handling skills' (men, huh...).
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justabod wrote:
@leggyblonde, those are tiny quantities of people who often only find out when they have medical tests for unrelated symptoms.

If people only find out they have different chromosomes when they have medical test for unrelated symptoms, it stands to reason there maybe many more of those who never knew about it in their entire life.

So the actual number maybe a fair bit higher (higher than whatever "tiny" is defined by justabod)
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@clarky999, what is the definition of a lesbian?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, for someone who rails against bigotry you're happy to indulge in it yourself aren't you? What does the sex of the people you imagine to be complaining matter especially given that it's actually women and (particularly) feminists who're upset about the trans activists' claims?

What the hell does race have to do with it? As I pointed out in my other comment 87% of the UK is white so it's pretty likely that someone opposing these activists will be white.

Secondly, you say that women could decide on an individual basis if they're willing to share a room with a man rather than make a blanket decision, as after all some men can share a meal etc etc. If women then refuse to share with any men who aren't relatives/partners etc does that make them bigots? After all they would be tarring all men with the same brush as potential rapists: your argument would then be that if you don't support unisex toilets you're a bigot.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@clarky999, is sexuality fluid? I thought gay people were born that way which is the crux of the argument in not discriminating against them, certainly that was used by gay rights activists in the 90s and 00s.

There is a difference between someone having the appearance of a woman from surgery, clothing etc and HAVING A COCK! Genitalia are crucial to sex and sexual intercourse and IF YOU ARE HETEROSEXUAL BY DEFINITION YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT A COCK IN YOUR MOUTH.

I'm having to write in capitals because these are matters of definition. Someone kissing a bloke once, finding someone transsexual attractive or even sleeping with one (a very het Marine I know has) doesn't mean that they are fundamentally gay: a brief dalliance hardly makes you bisexual either.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@abc, the point is it's irrelevant: whilst there may be some chromosomal variation they have the practical essentials of a sex i.e. the anatomy, hormones, ability to reproduce. I someone founds out they have one of these variants but have ovaries, a vagina and have had kids does that no longer mean they are a woman?

Society has a gender binary because it is self-evident, not because there has been some cunning plot to do down the LGBTQWERTY part of society.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
leggyblonde wrote:
Quote:

gender appears to be a choice.


Some people think sexuality is a choice too...


True, and that's a very complex issue taking into account a myriad of factors. A full on nature vs nurture debate in that statement.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
justabod wrote:


I'm having to write in capitals because these are matters of definition. Someone kissing a bloke once, finding someone transsexual attractive or even sleeping with one (a very het Marine I know has) doesn't mean that they are fundamentally gay: a brief dalliance hardly makes you bisexual either.


No-one has said that. You are the one bringing sexuality and lesbians into a thread about whether it's right or wrong for an organisation to be more inclusive of transpeople, presumably in an attempt to obfuscate.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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justabod wrote:
I thought gay people were born that way which is the crux of the argument in not discriminating against them, certainly that was used by gay rights activists in the 90s and 00s.


If you're implying that the genetic makeup of someone defines their sexuality from birth (i.e. the "gay gene"), then no, that particular theory has been effectively disproved.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02585-6
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Really though.... shouldn't this thread be moved to Apres? It's a bit off piste here.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
To be honest I'm losing track of who I'm being bigoted against - probably grumpy white males (with which I self-identify), gay cake non-bakers, computer gaming nerds


I'm just happy the enlightened students of Oxbridge don't seem to have as much of a problem with this as sHs seemingly do. There is hope for the future (even if some of them do subsequently become Tory MPs rolling eyes )
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@clarky999, it's not a simple as that. Women and men have had separate spaces for centuries, rightly or wrongly. Changing that to allow people who say they have an intangible sense of being the other sex to access any space they wish isn't simple: there are risks and people abuse that.

The trans debate has sprung from nowhere over the past few years and a lot of people, particularly women are uneasy about this. It has become febrile and aggressive so I don't believe that a women saying that she is not happy to share a room with a man would be able to do so: unless done confidentially the reaction is likely to be abuse. There was a meeting of feminists recently and there were men hammering on the windows to try and intimidate them as they disagreed with the feminists' views on transgenderism, all this whilst the Police looked on and did nothing. We used to find men abusing and harassing women disgusting whereas now it seems to be OK if they're trans.

@MikeM, yes I've heard that there is a mix of genetics and environmental factors. This isn't discussed much because (I think) the view that 'gay is innate' was so crucial in the rights movement. This could get nasty if people start to use it as a weapon as with the racial variances in IQ, crime etc. Douglas Murray predicted this with the rise of 'you can't be racist against whites' racism in the US, eventually elements of the majority group will start to push back. Hopefully we stop before then as society really will become poisonous then.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
.. the enlightened students of Oxbridge ..

Is that an oxymoron? Toofy Grin
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Well maybe hyperbole
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Well maybe hyperbole

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
justabod wrote:

IF YOU ARE HETEROSEXUAL MALE BY DEFINITION YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT A COCK IN YOUR MOUTH.

Crucial omission.

Or was that intentional? Some kind of orthodox definition of "acceptable sexual behavior"?
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justabod wrote:
Women and men have had separate spaces for centuries, rightly or wrongly. Changing that to allow people who say they have an intangible sense of being the other sex to access any space they wish isn't simple: there are risks and people abuse that.


Agree - but it doesn't mean the change shouldn't happen, and I think it's a good thing that the students are trying to be more inclusive of probably the most discriminated against sector of society.

justabod wrote:
I don't believe that a women saying that she is not happy to share a room with a man would be able to do so: unless done confidentially the reaction is likely to be abuse.


My opinion as a straight white guy is that if a woman doesn't want to share a room with someone who has a pint, that is absolutely her right, and her reasons are none of my business. I don't think that is, or should be, incompatible with being more inclusive to transpeople.
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justabod wrote:
The trans debate has sprung from nowhere over the past few years and a lot of people, particularly women are uneasy about this.

It didn't "sprung from nowhere". They're the oppressed group, who are now in an environment they feel they could speak up!

But too many people wish to turn back the clock and push them back into the closet, like they pushed homosexuals into the closet before.

That's said, I'm against political correctness. So yes, if some women are uneasy about trans being in the room, they have as much right to express their uneasiness as the trans to express their wish to be in a room with women!
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clarky999 wrote:

My opinion as a straight white guy is that if a woman doesn't want to share a room with someone who has a pint, that is absolutely her right, and her reasons are none of my business. I don't think that is, or should be, incompatible with being more inclusive to transpeople.

Isn't one of the points being made here is that said woman is having that right removed by having to share with a transexual who has a pen is if she opted not to share accommodation with males. The only route out of this moral quagmire is to have separate rooms for everyone, or just don't go on that ski trip.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
MikeM wrote:
clarky999 wrote:

My opinion as a straight white guy is that if a woman doesn't want to share a room with someone who has a pint, that is absolutely her right, and her reasons are none of my business. I don't think that is, or should be, incompatible with being more inclusive to transpeople.

Isn't one of the points being made here is that said woman is having that right removed by having to share with a transexual who has a pen is if she opted not to share accommodation with males. The only route out of this moral quagmire is to have separate rooms for everyone, or just don't go on that ski trip.

Has anyone met a specific woman who do not wish to share a room with a specific transsexual?

It's a non-issue that got blown out of proportion by the bigots!

A true transsexual is someone who wish to be a woman, whether via surgery or just in behavior. I have a hard time seeing any women would have problem with sharing a room with such a "woman". (for those who don't know, I'm a biological woman) I for one, would have no problem sharing a room with a skirt wearing, giggly women who happen to have a peniis. Most likely I wouldn't get to see it anyway, as I've never seen the genitalia of any of the "women" I've shared rooms with.

The worry, particularly from parents, is the potential some men may used that "self-identified as woman" as a way to be in a room with their daughters. That's a reasonable concern, however unnecessary. But that reasonable concern has been blown out of proportion by those who feel uneasy about there exist so many homos and trans who used to be invisible! Every time a I see a discussion about trans right, it eventually turned into rants against homos and trans being the root of the emotion.


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 8-11-19 19:19; edited 2 times in total
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Stinkpickle wrote:
Out of interest, assuming you are a hetrosexual male, would you consider dating a transwoman with a pen is if you found them attractive before seeing them naked?



http://youtube.com/v/f4Mc-NYPHaQ
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@thecramps, I'll see your Queen, and raise you a Crying Game.

Everyone else, sorry for lowering the tone of a serious thread.


http://youtube.com/v/sdTwY-0iqGU
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Tom Doc wrote:
@thecramps, I'll see your Queen, and raise you a Crying Game.

Everyone else, sorry for lowering the tone of a serious thread.


http://youtube.com/v/sdTwY-0iqGU


At least its not Goodbye Horses

http://youtube.com/v/X_DVS_303kQ
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Tom Doc wrote:
Everyone else, sorry for lowering the tone of a serious thread.


I'm not. Just going to be another thread full of acrimony and bitter divisions at a time we should all be happy. Winter is here! Madeye-Smiley


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 8-11-19 21:03; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sometimes, ….. out in the cold, … the pen is not a pen. wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
thecramps wrote:
Tom Doc wrote:
Everyone else, sorry for lowering the tone of a serious thread.


I'm not. Just going to be another thread full ov acrimony and bitter divisions at a time we shoulx all be happy. Winter is here! Madeye-Smiley


Good point!!
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@skimastaaah, a penette?
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@skimastaaah, sometimes just a ballpoint
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Richard_Sideways wrote:
@skimastaaah, sometimes just a ballpoint

Sounds like a little bic
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Laughing Laughing Laughing
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“And then he got his lad out...”


http://youtube.com/v/gT9xuXQjxMM
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@Ingemar_Skidmark, Perfection. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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