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hard shell jackets and layering - advise needed

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Russeh, It looks ok from here.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yes in socks you will obviously get frostbite with no boots for the snow gaiter to seal around .
So long as you bought pants from the snowsports range the gaiters are inside .

Wearing ski or snowboard boots will allow a better seal at the boot also the inseam lenght will seem less .

Then you wear base layers under the shell pants depending on temp/wind.... just like you wear clothes under a raincoat .

Without the expedition fit "room" that you are concerned about inside on carpet..... then during athletic activity with layers... the ski clothing can bind and not fit comfortably in endurance/athletic mode .

The fit allows articulation with layers ...the jackets work the same which is very different to fashion fit and look .
You must stay dry or its game over in really cold weather often its sweat causing dampness hence the zipped vents .


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 6-11-19 7:51; edited 3 times in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Russeh,

shells are not designed to keep you warm.
Its there to keep weather from penetrating in, while allowing you underlayers to breath.

20k shell lets very little in, if they was lined as well, then they would leave very little out. To the point where you would probably overheat. Plus your sweat would not be able to escape your base layer & making things uncomfortable.
If you are really worried about temperature warmth, then you can buy bottom midlayers. I know the brand Picture used to do such a pair called mitty.
I wear Burton expedition base layer, 3/4 length tracksuit bottoms & that keeps me warm enough when moving. Can feel the wind chill on lifts though.
On top, I use a mid layer to suit the weather & conditions.
Shell is about layering. Base layer to wick sweat, mid layer for warmth, outer lay to keep weather out.
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@Russeh,
Quote:

I think i already know the answer to this, but this amount of volume isn't going to be good for staying warm is it?

I've got some Arcteryx ski specific shell pants and they are styled quite baggy. I don't find them cold - they do trap a layer of air.
It's more a question of taste whether you like the baggier look or not.
I wouldn't call mine "expedition fit" if only because the lack of full length zips / drop seat etc doesn't make them suitable for full on mountaineering etc.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My Arcteryx pants have what they call light insulation ( Sabre) It's very light. I am happy with a 3/4 length thin merino under them in cold conditions, and in a typical march / april spring week am happy with them on their own. YMMV. Of course I have socks to almost knee, and long boxers to mid thigh, so there's not much not covered underneath.
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Yeah I would not be worried about how baggy they are unless you don't like the look of them in the mirror!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
started a new job this week so only just got round to logging on.

OK so i'm led to believe that if you have excess space in your shell then this just becomes too much of an area to create warm pockets of air, so you don't stay warm, probably more of an issue in jacket than pants. It's kinda hard to show just how baggy they are in the photos but could easy wear my jeans under them no problem. The other concern is i think the excess material will just rub and get in the way when walking. On the plus side i'm not at all worried about being restricted in movement in these.

I'm probably going to send them back and get the Sabres, i tried this seasons on in the regular fit and they are a much better shape.

@endoman Question: because the sabres are lightly insulated do you find that the inside layer catches your base layers and restricts movement? also do you think you could wear them without base layers or do you think you think they'd stick to you if you got hot?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I would wear with base layers even though lightly insulated.
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@Russeh,

No catching I noticed. I have worn without base layers and again no issues. The insulation is just like a very thin brushed cotton. Probably something else, but that’s my description.
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I've got Arcteryx Sabre shell trousers and they are baggy similar to that, maybe more. If it's very, very cold then I sometimes have a base layer as well, but most times I don't even bother with that.

All personal though.
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@Russeh, I'm not sure the Sabre pants I had contained any real insulation. They did have an inner liner but that wasn't insulated in the manner of traditional ski trousers.

I agree with @endoman regarding the no catching and as they have an inner liner they don't stick to anything either!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I have sabres and they're way baggier below the knee than the ones in that photo. I have only ever worn 3/4 length merino underneath and have never been cold - even in -30 Norway.

The amount of space you have in there doesn't affect the heat you build up if the shell itself is windstopping and not getting you wet.

The 'insulation' in the sabres is a smooth light flocking that just separates the outer facing layers from your skin/base layer.

I would imagine the 'pettes you have there are just like the sabres protection-wise, in that they do what they are supposed to do very very well, being an Arcteryx product that's almost always a given.
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