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360 Cameras

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar wrote:
kitenski wrote:
@rob@rar, once bitten twice shy on cases as my fully waterproof Contour case filled with water and killed the camera many years ago!!
Oops! Did Contour replace the camera?


Nope I think it was also the time they went bust!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
kitenski wrote:
rob@rar wrote:
kitenski wrote:
@rob@rar, once bitten twice shy on cases as my fully waterproof Contour case filled with water and killed the camera many years ago!!
Oops! Did Contour replace the camera?


Nope I think it was also the time they went bust!
Oh well, karma is a b!tch. Frustrating for you though.
ski holidays     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kitenski wrote:
@rob@rar, yeah the Insta looks good but not waterproof and the "venture" case was withdrawn when last I looked.
New Venture case for the Insta 360 One X.
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Cheers @rob@rar, only just seen your post. I’ll definitely be adding that to my Christmas list!

Loving the insta 360 one x so far. Great stabilisation, great picture quality, easy to use with simple editing app.

Silly one minute video below of us walking (and slipping) through Avoriaz - I love the way the background buildings stay in focus when you speed the footage up (0.35).


http://youtube.com/v/EDJrbBLv-S0
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
New Gopro Fusion (and Hero8 range) launch date 1st October. Current models getting discounted.
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@ansta1, is there a launch event on Tues 1st Oct?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Has any one heard of/tried the camorama 360?
http://www.camorama.com/Index/index
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
kitenski wrote:
@ansta1, is there a launch event on Tues 1st Oct?


Yep 6am PDT.

Some good changes, some will feel like a step back to earlier hero cameras, think back to when you had Wi-Fi backs, screen backs etc. Hopefully they've ironed out some of the h7 manufacturing and firmware issues (not that I had any).
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I’d thoroughly recommend the Insta360 One X but it needs molly-coddling or the Venture case. I think the case messes with the optics and the stitching is compromised. Mine is now dead having been water-damaged (water-pouch leaked 1/2 litre in pocket whilst skinning).
It took great footage - all the attached was shot on it -
3 Mars 2019 AdH from Grinning
https://vimeo.com/321111404
I mounted a tripod stud in ski pole handle and screwed camera to that. Didn’t have to carry the selfie stick. Compromise as ski pole is fatter than selfie stick but I found it less faff than dealing with two ski poles and a selfie stick...
Battery life is fine for all day in winter but you have to take it out after each shot (which I got into the routine of doing anyway as the camera would so easily trigger). 2 friends have bought them after skiing together.
Waiting for their next 360 for a replacement.
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Merci Ignaki 333 Ski School, Tignes and Val d’Isère from Grinning
https://vimeo.com/315333959
One minute sequence

Or an eleven second sequence

Lap 7 in la Petite Balme from Grinning
https://vimeo.com/328668991
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Grinning wrote:
I’d thoroughly recommend the Insta360 One X but it needs molly-coddling or the Venture case. I think the case messes with the optics and the stitching is compromised.


It seems to produce great videos, but I've had bad experiences in the early days with other non waterproof cameras that needed a case, hence why I think the approach GoPro took to waterproof the camera without a case is the way forwards!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So the GoPro max is now announced, does anyone know how it compares to the Insta 360 x?

In its favour it appears to be waterproof without a case and has included protective lenses vs the Insta which needs a case and appears very fragile.

I guess it needs to ship before quality vs the Insta can be analysed.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kitenski wrote:
... It seems to produce great videos, but I've had bad experiences in the early days with other non waterproof cameras that needed a case, hence why I think the approach GoPro took to waterproof the camera without a case is the way forwards!
My Rylo is unprotected, and it's been fine. I just wipe it after a run if it's snowy and protect it from condensation when going into the warm at the end of a day (wrap in a towel or goggle bag or something until it's warmed up). Of course different people have different requirements, but as a stick-user I'd always trade weight for weatherproofing.

I was a bit disappointed that GoPro don't appear to have moved 360 quality forward, from the specifications. At all.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
philwig wrote:
I was a bit disappointed that GoPro don't appear to have moved 360 quality forward, from the specifications. At all.
I agree, I think the new Fusion has a marginally smaller 360 frame resolution than a few other cameras, including the Insta 360 One X (5.6K v. 5.7K). Would be nice to punch in to the 360 frame and get something better than a 1080 frame out of it.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I wonder if Insta will respond with another camera??

Also appears if using the Max in "hero" mode the video quality is greatly reduced... HERO Mode 1440p60 / 1080p60

Also GoPro doing a £50 trade in of any digital camera for £50 off the HERO7 Black or HERO7 Silver.

I was tempted to upgrade my 5 to a 7 Black, but then I'm thinking I may as well always shoot with a 360 camera as you can then capture better shots, move the camera angle etc etc

https://gopro.com/en/gb/shop/tradeup
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
kitenski wrote:
I wonder if Insta will respond with another camera??
I'm sure they will. They are very active in on-going developments, for example, with major feature changes to the Insta 360 One X coming through ongoing firmware releases. They seem to me that as a company they are not standing still, unlike GoPro who bring out new models annually, but existing models seem to stay fairly static in their feature list.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@rob@rar, that's a good point! I'm wanting to get something for this ski season.

I can get a decent price on an Insta 360 One X bundle from Apple....guess I'll wait and see if there are any rumours about a new Insta camera! Looks like the One X came out Oct 2018 which was a year after the One.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kitenski wrote:
...I was tempted to upgrade my 5 to a 7 Black, but then I'm thinking I may as well always shoot with a 360 camera as you can then capture better shots, move the camera angle etc etc...
Yeah, but you get significantly better image quality @4K from any of the recent GoPro models. I can't remember which mine is (I don't use it as I have the Rylo...), but since ProTune the GoPro has better quality than anything else in that price range. The 360 cameras cropped into, as noted, are a huge step backwards in terms of image quality.
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The major gripe at the moment with the max is that it only has on SD card slot which reduces the reported. Bit rate capture. That's true on the face of things but what's often lost in the headlines is that it's using a new codec which actually relates to an overall higher bit rate.

Also I think that gopro have played clever in respect to hero mode, sure it's only 1440 but is enough for most stuff, not all for sure, but it's nice to combine both in on unit. It's actually capable of more than 1440 but is downgraded to utilise the v2 stabilisation I am told, so they may be able to tweak the firmware to up that quality in future.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
philwig wrote:
Yeah, but you get significantly better image quality @4K from any of the recent GoPro models. I can't remember which mine is (I don't use it as I have the Rylo...), but since ProTune the GoPro has better quality than anything else in that price range. The 360 cameras cropped into, as noted, are a huge step backwards in terms of image quality.
That's right. The 4K on the GoPro 7 is amazing quality in even half decent light, and the GoPro 8 now adds their super stabilisation at all frame sizes & rates. For absolute video quality later models of the GoPro (or the DJI Action camera) are way ahead of any of the 360 cameras. But what they don't give you is record first, point the camera afterwards; or some of the funky 360 possibilities. Best plan is a 360 camera and a GoPro!
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philwig wrote:
kitenski wrote:
...I was tempted to upgrade my 5 to a 7 Black, but then I'm thinking I may as well always shoot with a 360 camera as you can then capture better shots, move the camera angle etc etc...
Yeah, but you get significantly better image quality @4K from any of the recent GoPro models. I can't remember which mine is (I don't use it as I have the Rylo...), but since ProTune the GoPro has better quality than anything else in that price range. The 360 cameras cropped into, as noted, are a huge step backwards in terms of image quality.


I think you've just confirmed what I was thinking though, even the GoPro has much better quality, you don't use it as you have the Rylo....

Not sure I'd be able to carry 2 cameras Rob, or get away with owning two!!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
can I get some honest answers?

Are you managing to get your video edited and pruned or are you filling massive amounts of cloud storage with superfluous footage?

I'm pretty bad about editing even photos and while I think these cams seem brilliant I'm a bit nervous about my tendency to do nothing with it Embarassed
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
jedster wrote:
can I get some honest answers?

Are you managing to get your video edited and pruned or are you filling massive amounts of cloud storage with superfluous footage?

I'm pretty bad about editing even photos and while I think these cams seem brilliant I'm a bit nervous about my tendency to do nothing with it Embarassed
I do edit some things I video, which is mostly holiday and family stuff rather than skiing, but I also keep the raw footage as I never know what I might want to re-visit in the future. Local storage (rather than cloud) gets cheaper and cheaper.
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@jedster, I did a segway tour in Valencia and the company used the GoPro app QuikStories from their footage which did a pretty decent job IMHO.

I've done some edits, but also have a load of local stored videos, that are backed up to a 2nd small server.

The edited stuff is available here: https://www.youtube.com/user/MrGreghilton/videos?view_as=subscriber
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some really interesting stuff on the Max file formats

https://gopro.com/en/us/news/max-tech-specs-stitching-resolution
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and Abe's usual good good stuff on the non 360 Hero 8, including a full list of the presets he uses.

https://abekislevitz.com/
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Anyone seen any reviews of the quality of the stabilisation of the GoPro Max?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
jedster wrote:
..Are you managing to get your video edited and pruned or are you filling massive amounts of cloud storage with superfluous footage?
I'm pretty bad about editing even photos and while I think these cams seem brilliant I'm a bit nervous about my tendency to do nothing with it Embarassed
I don't store personal stuff in the cloud, although I always create backups.

In my view the trick is not to shoot things which won't work. It's pointless, and burns time editing out the garbage. You don't need huge amounts of extra batteries and storage if you only shoot when the light is brilliant and the action worth capturing. You may only get one hour in a week when the light is good, sometimes it just doesn't happen. These small-sensor cameras seem particularly sensitive to the quality of the light. You'll know you're with someone who knows what they're doing when they almost never get their camera out.

Otherwise, always shoot small segments, because they're easier to edit. Never leave the camera on even if you're just waiting for someone to catch you up, because you'll have to edit that "wait" out later. Even if the result is two usable clips, it's easier to separate them from the start, by powering the camera off and on. The cameras start up reliably and quickly.

One problem with 360 cameras is that you have to crop into the video, then edit the results. That gives more flexibility, but it's an extra step in the edit. My approach to that is to triage the stuff as 360 video, and only crop into the good bits. Hence I'll be doing "360 editing" with (say) 100 clips, but I'll only have 10 extracted standard videos to edit together. I'm expecting that someone will produce a free plugin for DaVinci or PPro which will allow the frame extraction, as doing that on the phone isn't ideal (because reworking the extract later is annoying if you can't do it in the editor.

--
As an example of only shooting what works... I sometimes shoot stills at airshows. The sun is in one part of the sky, and the planes fly about. I always hear camera users banging away when the planes are badly lit. These people have decent cameras and lenses, but they're filling their devices with thousands of useless photographs. I just wait until the planes are in the right place, then press the shutter. Much easier.

--
Stabilisation - it depends what you mean. For general use it's all perfect, because you have a complete sphere.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
philwig wrote:
Stabilisation - it depends what you mean. For general use it's all perfect, because you have a complete sphere.
The ability to stabilise a regular video frame punched out from the sphere, despite significant movements of the camera. I have the Insta 360 One X and the ability to choose an extremely stable frame, pointing in whatever direction you want, when the camera is bobbing around is amazing. Reviews of other 360 cameras don't show such a good ability to do this, so I'm wondering how well the new GoPro Max does in this regard.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@rob@rar, yes! https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/10/gopro-max-360-action-review.html

I went on the GoPro website, they have a £100 tradein for the 8 on any digital camera (even if not working). I asked via chat if they'd do this for the Max and the guy didn't know, but even without asking he offered me a 25% off code for the Hero 8!

Quote:
Similarly, within that single lens Hero mode there’s the new ‘Max HyperSmooth’, which essentially uses aspects of the much wider lenses to create an incredibly smooth recording. It’s able to handle far more rotation than a typical GoPro can without hitting the limits of stabilization (remember: Stabilization on most action cams these days is accomplished by essentially having a larger sensor size and then cropping into that for what is actually outputted to you. So imagine two boxes, with the smaller box being suspended inside the bigger box. Your footage is the smaller box, whereas the actual sensor is the larger box.


Finally, on single-lens features, there’s the new horizon leveling mode. This is super cool to watch in real-time on the back of the display, because you can actually see that the horizon stays level inside the display, despite the fact that the camera is tilted. It’s a bit of a mind trip. Again, box in a box capabilities going on here too.

Quote:

Finally, on single-lens features, there’s the new horizon leveling mode. This is super cool to watch in real-time on the back of the display, because you can actually see that the horizon stays level inside the display, despite the fact that the camera is tilted. It’s a bit of a mind trip. Again, box in a box capabilities going on here too.


and then some sample footage https://www.youtube.com/user/dcrainmakerblog/videos
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kitenski wrote:
... but even without asking he offered me a 25% off code for the Hero 8!
That's tempting. I have an old GoPro, 5 I think, which I've not used in a long time and I don't think I'd get close to £100 for it on eBay.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
also some good info on reframing on the app here


http://youtube.com/v/gy5zClAirQU
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Wow is all I can say!!
http://youtube.com/v/I4ZD8wnbehg

Now to find a discount Smile
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Anyone with a unidays account, you can get 20% off GoPro which works on the Max. Bullet bitten Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just got an advert for £45 off the
Insta360. Seems like the reduction is open to all but set to expire tomorrow if anyone is thinking about getting one.
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@extremerob,
Insta360 offer runs 25/11-2/12 so still time...
https://inst.campaign-view.com/ua/viewinbrowser?od=27218d28c96aa859ef3c8a052863e8ea21185630859ca1fd0&rd=16c4b71e36055400&sd=16c4b71e36052965&n=11699e4c318a54f&mrd=16c4b71e36052955&m=1
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Tried the max out yesterday, think I must have recorded the video in time lapse mode so no good, but did snag a decent still from the footage!

Sadly the GoPro mount that slides onto my helmet snapped last night so can’t try it on my head! Hopefully will get some more footage today.

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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Strange, same thing again today first video was in fast forward, rest were ok.

Little snippet...


http://youtube.com/v/P6Pfp-Tn7Wk
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Took my max for a surf this morning. Been waiting for a small day because I mounted it to a 1 metre stick poking out the front of my board. Kinda dodgy for anyone in the way Very Happy

I snapped the base of the mount going over the falls and into the sand bar on the second wave I had, but I think with a bit of re-engineering it will work OK, but definitely not something for more solid waves. The colour is a bit dull because all the smoke from the fires over in Oz is blocking the light.


http://youtube.com/v/LUd9XwVbRkU

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Hey 11 toes. That’s sweet footage. Don’t go losing the Max...
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