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Saalbach and Zell am See connection

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@robboj, I don't think they'd get planning permission to extend westwards towards Schattberg, although I might be wrong. Even if the lift up to the Saalbach side doesn't happen (and it still might), I'm sure that Zell will stil market its skiing area as linked with Saalbach. (Puts me in mind of the St Anton/Stuben situation, as it used to be). As for the two relatively minor inconveniences that you allude to (the tricky piste and the ski bus), they might help to stem the potential swarms of migrant skiers coming over from Zell in search of a better existence. wink (incidentally it struck me today that the design of the Austrian flag appears to be inspired by the 'No Entry' sign?)
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tatmanstours wrote:
@robboj, I don't think they'd get planning permission to extend westwards towards Schattberg, although I might be wrong. Even if the lift up to the Saalbach side doesn't happen (and it still might), I'm sure that Zell will stil market its skiing area as linked with Saalbach. (Puts me in mind of the St Anton/Stuben situation, as it used to be). As for the two relatively minor inconveniences that you allude to (the tricky piste and the ski bus), they might help to stem the potential swarms of migrant skiers coming over from Zell in search of a better existence. wink (incidentally it struck me today that the design of the Austrian flag appears to be inspired by the 'No Entry' sign?)


Sorry, yes, Westwards rolling eyes

ZamS is a place that attracts return visitors year after year (I used to be one) because of what the town is as much as what the skiing is. I've probably had almost as many summer holidays there as skiing ones. It would certainly increase the flow into S/H for the better skiing although afaik Zell is pretty much full most weeks now anyway so would it probably just make the Schmittenhöhe a bit quieter from maybe the Tuesday of a typical week onwards once the competent skiers have covered it all. I wonder if the Kitzsteinhorn might be the bigger loser if the full link goes ahead. Early/late and poor seasons apart who really wants to take and hour or more from ski room to slope to freeze in a blizzard on bare slopes when you could nip over into the circus for more skiing than most could cover in a week?
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https://www.inthesnow.com/big-expansion-of-austrias-zell-am-see-ski-area-gets-green-light/amp/

Not seen this anywhere else
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@mbeaney, Yes, I saw this on Facebook earlier. It of course concerns the proposed expansion in the other direction towards Piesendorf. I hear that people are worried about the altitude of the south-facing slopes in that direction.
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Yes, should have bought that hotel in piesendorf that was on the market last year!
I used to have a copy of the plans from 2010 but can’t find them now but if I remember there was 3 new lifts and 4 new runs, which is more what the area needed I believe rather than the link run to Saalbach which will only be a transit route as far as I’m concerned, not bad to ski but maybe a little narrow and steep in places for some and not worth lapping round
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@mbeaney, If the Piesendorf project helps to alleviate pressure on the link to Saalbach and the Schoenleiten area, that will obviously be welcome. I was talking to our French neighbour a couple of days ago - she has lived in Munich for many years -, and she was very strongly of the view that large numbers of people will pour in from Zell am See, and that Saalbach will cop for the additional pressure, owing to its central location in the Ski Circus.
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mbeaney wrote:
https://www.inthesnow.com/big-expansion-of-austrias-zell-am-see-ski-area-gets-green-light/amp/

Not seen this anywhere else


I genuinely thought this was a dead duck years ago so surprised to see it. Still think what I thought then. A three month wonder in most winters that will be strictly mornings only by late Feb.
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@mbeaney, I'm assuming the new lifts are the ones listed here as planned (minus the zell-am-see-xpress I)?
https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/schmittenhoehe-zell-am-see/ski-lifts/
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Tubaski wrote:
@mbeaney, I'm assuming the new lifts are the ones listed here as planned (minus the zell-am-see-xpress I)?
https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/schmittenhoehe-zell-am-see/ski-lifts/


Seems to be the same as was published years ago then apparently but seemingly not actually shelved?

It mentions two gondolas and two new chairs one of which I reckon must be the link to the existing system. If it is the one called Kettingkopf then that presumably means its top station is around the Kettingalm hut which would seem a logical place. Might be the end of the skidoo tow back up from the Pinzgauerhütte though?
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@robboj, Yes I thought so too, I was guessing that the Kettingkopf would somehow link up there, either to meet the kappelbahn, or possibly the top of the Hahnkopf (?) drag. Unless they plan to replace the drag and meet another lift or piste at the top of that run. That would be a shame for me as I rather enjoy lapping that quiet shallow blue to practice things.
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tatmanstours wrote:
@mbeaney, If the Piesendorf project helps to alleviate pressure on the link to Saalbach and the Schoenleiten area, that will obviously be welcome. I was talking to our French neighbour a couple of days ago - she has lived in Munich for many years -, and she was very strongly of the view that large numbers of people will pour in from Zell am See, and that Saalbach will cop for the additional pressure, owing to its central location in the Ski Circus.


I don't see it being that bad TT and can't think that Saalbach itself will be much affected. I think it'll only be the competent to expert skiers that will want the extra terrain on a regular basis and they will ski as much of the circus as they can in a day then head back to Zell before the lifts shut. They are only likely to transit the Glemmtal villages and likely eat lunch up the mountain. Yes there might be a few who come to party but they still have to get back unless they want to pay for a taxi which isn't cheap or catch a bus which isn't included in the lift pass if they hang around after the lifts shut?

Also an interesting point in the link that mbeaney posted about how the Austrian Federal Court eventually ruled that economic concerns trumped environmental ones in the Piesendorf expansion plan. Suggests to me that if the allegedly last suitable site of the reservoir above Viehofen is geologically unsound then thats not necessarily the matter closed. One of the sites that were already rejected as environmentally unsuitable may then be approved, eventually, on that same basis.
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Tubaski wrote:
@robboj, Yes I thought so too, I was guessing that the Kettingkopf would somehow link up there, either to meet the kappelbahn, or possibly the top of the Hahnkopf (?) drag. Unless they plan to replace the drag and meet another lift or piste at the top of that run. That would be a shame for me as I rather enjoy lapping that quiet shallow blue to practice things.


Yes the Hahnkopf is another possible but I would think they would have to upgrade the drag lift for the return to cope with numbers. Funnily enough that's also where I head to do my drills and get back up to speed on the first day of a holiday in Zell, The drag can be a pain though, I reckon that about every second tow I have to pick up some tumbling urchin or beginner that can't stand for the length of it. Its a better bet on the Sunday/Monday of a week before the ski schools have progressed that far?

I have often wondered why they haven't done something with the drag lift but perhaps this announcement explains why as its quite possibly now going to be part of something much bigger?

The one that puzzles me most is the Hirschkogel Express up from Mittelstation. Literally the only bottleneck on the mountain outside of the busy weeks and for some reason still a 4 man chair and 20 years old which makes its positively vintage in Porsche AG tax write-off resort?
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So are we getting a link to Zell am See to Saalbach anytime soon or are they first expanding Zell am See south?
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südtirolistdeutsch wrote:
So are we getting a link to Zell am See to Saalbach anytime soon or are they first expanding Zell am See south?


Saalbach first, but for now only one way on skis.

From winter 2019/20 you will be able to ski from Saalbach using piste 68 then the newly completed two stage lift up to the Sonnkogel then down into Zell. The other direction will require you to catch a bus from Viehofen to Saalbach until such times as the issue of the location of the reservoir above Viehofen is resolved. As it stands S/H state that the gondola up from Viehofen on 'their' side would not be viable without artificial snowmaking on piste 68. If the environment vs economy argument goes to court it could be years away as was apparently the case with Piesendorf.

No apparent dates for the Piesendorf expansion as yet but maybe season 20/21 at best as I would expect they will need at least one summer to do the major engineering and landscaping, then another one to do the infrastructure and mechanical installations?
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Which ever of these projects goes ahead first I cannot think (when you combine with the K‑ONNECTION in project in Kaprun) of any other ski area world wide that is investing in infrastructure the way Salbaach, Hinterglem, Leogang, Fieberbrunn, Zell, Kaprun has over the last few years and the up coming ones. All available on the Ski Alpin Card for bargain price of 560 Eur (when compared to other areas).

I am out in Zell at the end of October for a bit of early season skiing on the Kitz and will try and find out any new info.
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mbeaney wrote:
Which ever of these projects goes ahead first I cannot think (when you combine with the K‑ONNECTION in project in Kaprun) of any other ski area world wide that is investing in infrastructure the way Salbaach, Hinterglem, Leogang, Fieberbrunn, Zell, Kaprun has over the last few years and the up coming ones. All available on the Ski Alpin Card for bargain price of 560 Eur (when compared to other areas).

I am out in Zell at the end of October for a bit of early season skiing on the Kitz and will try and find out any new info.


I agree and when you think of what is eventually possible if they did built a horizontal gondola across from The Schmittenhöhe to the Maiskogel then the sheer geographical distance from the Kitzsteinhorn to Fieberbrunn then fully linked would possibly be the biggest anywhere?
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Interestingly the straight line distance between top of Kitz to center of Fieberbrunn is 32.05km or about 55km using actual, planned or mystical transit lifts (between Maiskogel and Piesendorf) according to Google Maps. Would be a great days skiing and would make a great race!
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@mbeaney, It would indeed!
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robboj wrote:
südtirolistdeutsch wrote:
So are we getting a link to Zell am See to Saalbach anytime soon or are they first expanding Zell am See south?


Saalbach first, but for now only one way on skis.

From winter 2019/20 you will be able to ski from Saalbach using piste 68 then the newly completed two stage lift up to the Sonnkogel then down into Zell. The other direction will require you to catch a bus from Viehofen to Saalbach until such times as the issue of the location of the reservoir above Viehofen is resolved. As it stands S/H state that the gondola up from Viehofen on 'their' side would not be viable without artificial snowmaking on piste 68. If the environment vs economy argument goes to court it could be years away as was apparently the case with Piesendorf.

No apparent dates for the Piesendorf expansion as yet but maybe season 20/21 at best as I would expect they will need at least one summer to do the major engineering and landscaping, then another one to do the infrastructure and mechanical installations?

Ah thank you for the clarification
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https://www.schmitten.at/en/service/press/press-articles/the-hochsonnberg-project_p4015
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Piesendorf about 5 years away one last hurdle according to the link above
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JWillsnowhead wrote:
Piesendorf about 5 years away one last hurdle according to the link above


Thanks for the update. Long time to wait yet then. If Saalbach goes to plan it will be fully completed first by a couple of years at least.
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https://www.zellamsee-kaprun.com/de/aktivitaeten/winter/skifahren/news-winter-2019

New visual for the lift down to Viehhofen from Zell for December 2019 as well as stats for the new day ski pass for Zell/Kitzsteinhorn/Saalbach.
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https://previews.dropbox.com/p/thumb/AAdlCPxuqh7yAgPnhmB2vVuTXzS4j6oXOHyPLNeSY9UCUguO9beFArTMb3wGhzxDy7_X3-mb0bCHRVoOv43RlHzG2dNsJHTY7yWnb8uLK2umDWJzC9ADU5U5f3M2bF8hplY85n5j_MyZCqUGVHDkHoIkG5zPVgucuFcovSOvsqjrlB2S9EjhoBXGFhM5xjkm_qKjUuLR5Bwul3yuJ1Qw6dEihLC3SUQUbWbnKVtYKcWboGQQHS5csw7JUh876dnnxSUugFW_7shnUCFZ1smrfIj54MQJF1xJrA-1mKLH5eC6SMINLzML6CV-0r5P9qZsQ2zN6GXtqL0IkgbVB9ljieEs5Oyv6x8-ntHbMynjhPCBaJ64j2mpN1ReVWOLf0NHDZss71FOQ6GHzsz0cfl2HOvD/p.jpeg?size=1600x1200&size_mode=3
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401 error!!


Saalbachsnowhead wrote:
https://previews.dropbox.com/p/thumb/AAdlCPxuqh7yAgPnhmB2vVuTXzS4j6oXOHyPLNeSY9UCUguO9beFArTMb3wGhzxDy7_X3-mb0bCHRVoOv43RlHzG2dNsJHTY7yWnb8uLK2umDWJzC9ADU5U5f3M2bF8hplY85n5j_MyZCqUGVHDkHoIkG5zPVgucuFcovSOvsqjrlB2S9EjhoBXGFhM5xjkm_qKjUuLR5Bwul3yuJ1Qw6dEihLC3SUQUbWbnKVtYKcWboGQQHS5csw7JUh876dnnxSUugFW_7shnUCFZ1smrfIj54MQJF1xJrA-1mKLH5eC6SMINLzML6CV-0r5P9qZsQ2zN6GXtqL0IkgbVB9ljieEs5Oyv6x8-ntHbMynjhPCBaJ64j2mpN1ReVWOLf0NHDZss71FOQ6GHzsz0cfl2HOvD/p.jpeg?size=1600x1200&size_mode=3
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That's the first time I've seen that the lift from Viehhofen up the north side of the Glemmtal (towards the Polten chairlift) should come in 2020/21. I trust the Grand Hotel in Zell knows more than I do and it isn't just a grand plan Laughing. Strangely the official piste plan for Saalbach doesn't even show the Zell am See Xpress which is coming in this next winter (maybe because it is a Zell lift?).
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Quote:

Strangely the official piste plan for Saalbach doesn't even show the Zell am See Xpress which is coming in this next winter (maybe because it is a Zell lift?).

@espri, Equally strangely, the Saalbach website says nothing about the new Zell link under its "Innovations - news for winter 2019/20" section, which I find absolutely bizarre. It's definitely happening for this winter, and I would have thought that it merited more than a mention or two.
I agree, it's very interesting to see the new lift from Viehhofen to Schoenleiten "pencilled in" on the above map for 2020/21. This is earlier than I had anticipated, but the Saalbach Lift Company appears to have a head of steam (with the innovations and renovations of the last few years), and it wouldn't be entirely surprising to see them soldiering on with it next year. It will of course completely transform piste 68 (the Viehhofen Abfahrt), and it won't do any harm to the business of our favourite mountain restaurant, the Hecherhuette, halfway down that piste. I had heard that the go-ahead for the new lift up the Saalbach side depended on the result of ongoing geological tests for the suitability of that area for a new reservoir and snow-making. Perhaps that has now been resolved.
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tatmanstours wrote:
I had heard that the go-ahead for the new lift up the Saalbach side depended on the result of ongoing geological tests for the suitability of that area for a new reservoir and snow-making. Perhaps that has now been resolved.

Yes, I too had understood there was still preparatory work to be done. We shall see.
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espri wrote:
tatmanstours wrote:
I had heard that the go-ahead for the new lift up the Saalbach side depended on the result of ongoing geological tests for the suitability of that area for a new reservoir and snow-making. Perhaps that has now been resolved.

Yes, I too had understood there was still preparatory work to be done. We shall see.


Also heard that some of the farmers are being difficult.
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We were chatting about this with our hotel staff in Hinterglemm last winter & their feeling was that there was not much return on investment for Sallbach/Hinterglemm as they already had a great ski area, so what was the benefit to S/H of building the remaining lifts.

The connection would just bring skier-traffic in from Zell - ie Zell benefits so why should S/H pay for the new lifts...
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Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but why not.
We've booked for Zell am See again this winter, and I thought the connection had been built this season...
but perhaps not

It was probably too much to ski in a day anyway.

So best bet is to go over and down to Vierhofen or Vordaglem and either come back by bus or get across to Leogang and come back by train.
Is this right?
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There's a map of the Piesendorf plan here...
https://zellamseeholiday.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/seilbahn-hochsonnberg-piesendorf1.jpg?w=478
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@DrLawn, I am sure Mr Tatman or other Saalbach locals will give clarity, but in the meantime I will give what I understand.

You can now ski down to Saalbach (viehhofen) and get a lift back to Zell, but it’s not truly linked as you then need to catch the bus to the Schoenleiten lift to get into Saalbach
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Just to clarify: the gondola to Viehofen is a download (there is no piste to ski down) then a short bus ride to get into the Saalbach system.
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I’m in Saalbach at the moment. The new Zell am See Express gondola from Viehhofen up to the Schmittenhohe has been running several times as I’ve driven past it recently - presumably being tested for the grand opening in December. The new base station is quite a sizeable construction, as it would be expected to be, if (as it appears) they intend to put in another new gondola from the same base station up the Saalbach side in the new few years.
The situation from this December is that you will be able to ski from Saalbach down piste 168 (formerly 68, but most of the pistes have been renumbered, seemingly to harmonise with the pistes in the Zell area), to the new gondola, and then up the other side into the Zell system.
On the way back, there is a piste as far as the middle station on the Schmittenhohe, above the village of Viehhofen. From there you will have two options: either to download to the new base station in Viehhofen, or to follow a ski route that leads down to the road between Viehhofen and the Schonleitenbahn gondola station at Jausern. In the latter case there is a ski bus stop nearby.
If you download to the base station, the ski bus journey to the Schonleitenbahn takes about 8 minutes. If you ski down the ski route to the bus stop on the road, I would imagine that the journey will take about 5-6 minutes.
The ski bus has always run every 20 minutes between the centre of Viehhofen (where piste 168 ends) and the Schonleitenbahn. However, because of the new link, I understand that it is proposed to increase the regularity of the service to every 10 minutes.
Thus the Ski Circus and the Zell am See area will be fully interlinked from December, apart from the necessity to take that short trip on the ski bus on the way back from Zell to Saalbach. Obviously anyone staying in Zell, who skis over to Saalbach, will take the ski bus to the Schonleitenbahn on their outward journey but will be able to return entirely on skis and ski lifts.
There is one big caveat: much will depend on how much snow is on piste 168, which descends to a relatively low altitude in Viehhofen, is south-facing, and does not (yet) have snow-making.
Piste 168 (many people’s favourite in the whole Ski Circus) has always been an enigma - a beautiful, quiet, off the beaten track, 7km, blue piste, which most people either overlook or decide not to do, as the only way back is to take the ski bus to the Schonleitenbahn. Clearly things are about to change. However, until snow-making is installed on it (which apparently depends on the result of ongoing geological tests to establish whether the terrain will support a new reservoir), the snow conditions will continue to determine whether it is open or closed.
However, if piste 168 is closed (which can be established by consulting the on-line piste map, or an electronic board at the Schonleitenbahn top station, or a notice board at the Polten chair lift), it only means skiing down piste 161a (formerly 61b), from the Wildenkarkogel (top of the Schonleitenbahn) to the base station of the Schonleitenbahn at Jausern, and then taking the ski bus from there to the new Zell am See Express base station. This probably wouldn’t take any longer, as it would cut out the necessity to ski down to the Polten lift and then (after taking that lift) to ski down piste 168.
Timewise there would probably be little difference.
Anyone heading in the Saalbach direction from Zell, who for some reason did not want to go up the Schonleitenbahn and back into the system, could change ski buses at the Schonleitenbahn base station and travel directly to Saalbach (or Hinterglemm).
By the way, I haven’t yet done the ski route from the Schmittenhohe (Zell am See Express mid-station) down to the road between Viehhofen and Jausern, but others have, and I’m told that it’s within the capability of an intermediate skier.
Happy as always to answer any questions.
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Sorry if this is answered within but will the S/H lift pass this year include unlimited access across the whole Zell area too? I agree with all the earlier remarks about plenty to be going on with S/H alone.... May bring more the other way etc, so its more of a theoretical question. Or is it one days skiing across like some lift passes? Out to S/H in January and can't wait.
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toyah807 wrote:
Sorry if this is answered within but will the S/H lift pass this year include unlimited access across the whole Zell area too? I agree with all the earlier remarks about plenty to be going on with S/H alone.... May bring more the other way etc, so its more of a theoretical question. Or is it one days skiing across like some lift passes? Out to S/H in January and can't wait.


Starting this coming winter, S/H, Zell and Kaprun (including the Kitzsteinhorn glacier) will all be included on the local pass.
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@tatmanstours, why do you think the run down from the midstation towards the Saalbach valley is a ski route and not a proper piste? Is it just because it's narrow?

Seems strange that (what will become) such an important linking piste is only a ski route.
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denfinella wrote:
@tatmanstours, why do you think the run down from the midstation towards the Saalbach valley is a ski route and not a proper piste? Is it just because it's narrow?

Seems strange that (what will become) such an important linking piste is only a ski route.


Isn't the general rule that Ski routes are un prepared...
I'd guess that they haven't yet 'dozed' the last bit down to the valley floor.
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