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Salomon S/LAB Shift binding

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@spyderjon, oooh you are clever! So what degree climbing aid would the extra piece provide (or how much extra over and above the existing 10 degrees?)
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@spyderjon, oooh you are clever! So what degree climbing aid would the extra piece provide (or how much extra over and above the existing 10 degrees?)

Dunno, I haven't measured it yet. The part's in my shop but if I recall correctly it adds 30mm of lift above the existing riser. It may even be too high but a guy on TGR a few months ago made a bent wire one from a bike spoke so I'd used his as a guide (assuming that he might of measured/researched it first) plus that was the width of the piece of bar I had in my scrap bin!

I know Salomon quote 2 degrees (ie flat) and 10 degrees for the Shift but I've never seen anything published as to what sole length that's based upon as the closer the toe and heel are together the steeper the angle will be. If I get a minute tomorrow I'll work out the height/angle but Saturdays are choka so it might take me longer.
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@spyderjon, yes that is true, it’s probably based on a sole length of 340mm or something. I’m not sure what the ‘average’ sole length is really.
No rush for measuring it.
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KenX wrote:
@clarky999, best buy 2............ Very Happy


Laughing Laughing
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@spyderjon, If you have a cad file it would be interesting to see how they would 3D print. The new carbon material would be interesting. Obviously Non disclosure etc.
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
@spyderjon......I’m not sure what the ‘average’ sole length is really.....

IME it's about 310/315mm
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AndAnotherThing.. wrote:
@spyderjon, If you have a cad file....

Laughing
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
spyderjon wrote:
AndAnotherThing.. wrote:
@spyderjon, If you have a cad file....

Laughing


Isn't that the one on the toolboard next to the bastid
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spyderjon wrote:
AndAnotherThing.. wrote:
@spyderjon, If you have a cad file....

Laughing


the traditional analogue solution Laughing
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Had a chance this afternoon to do a bit of measuring of my protptype climbing bar angles measured off a Shift that was mounted for my Dynafit Mercury 304mm bsl boot (which actually measures 306mm in the Shift jig).

Here's the ski mode which gives sufficient room for the binding crampon to be fitted. I'm sold out of crampons and I've lent mine to a customer so I can't yet measure what the shortest sole length you could have without my bar reaching the crampon, although the crampon could quite happily sit on top of the riser.



Here's the factory lowest skinning mode which is advertised as 2 degrees but with my boot it measures 5 degrees:



Here's the factory riser which is advertised as 10 degrees and with my boot it's very close to that at 11 degrees:



Here's my high climbing bar which measures out at 17 degrees:



As a comparison I mounted up a pair of Tectons for my boots (jig also set to 306mm). The Tecton climbing heights are advertised as 2, 9 & 13 degrees but with my boot they measured out at 3, 10 & 15 degrees.
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@spyderjon, ooh well that might explain why I quite liked the flat setting for quite a lot of the time if potentially it went up as much as 5 degrees. I didn't think it felt like 2 degrees compared to the 7 degree setting on my Marker Tour F10s.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Rubber hinge spacer now sorted (used an off-the-shelf cable grommet but cold temperature performance is an unknown) and the lock nuts swapped out for a proper washer/nylock nut. Assembly is rock solid but currently lacks any feature to be 'ski pole enabled' so currently requires the user to hand operate.

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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I went for another skin this morning, exactly the same route as 2 weeks ago.
Anyhow it seemed easier this time so I'm either fitter or better with technique or both.
I don't think I'd need a higher riser but like you say it all depends on the skin track the guide or person at the front puts in for you.
I'm considering doing an all day one (including skiing down) tomorrow somewhere else and that's a lot more ascent than what I've done so far. Luckily I don't need to tell them if I'm coming or not until tomorrow morning as I'm pooped after just this morning's 2 hour one. It would be good to try it 2 days running though to see what it's like.
I swear it's harder than any other exercise including running.
You feel alright at the time it's when you sit down afterwards.
P.S the snow was fabulous this morning on the descent, it was spraying up like smoke/dust and everything
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Whether you need a high riser or can depend upon the boot sole profile you're using which effects the delta angle of the binding - and the greater the delta the greater the effective height of the riser. The Shift delta with my boot is 8mm and I use a 6mm shim under the toe (not shown in the pics above) to reduce that to 2mm so I've effectively taken 6mm of the height of the factory riser.


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 20-03-19 18:22; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@spyderjon, that's probably it then.
Speaking of sole profiles, I've got Tecnica Zero G Guide Pro W boots from last season and I understand they've changed the sole material this year?
Reason I ask is I've done a lot of walking in ski boots this season, to and from bus stops, train stations etc, I was going somewhere different every day depending on my fancy and I didn't want to carry my shoes around, besides I don't think I'd get them in my pack with everything else as well.
Anyway the soles are coming off at the toe and heel of each boot.

To be expected I suppose with so much pavement abuse but they wore a bit too quickly for my tastes.
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I note that the Skywalk soles like I have on my boots are replaceable though and the Vibram soles on this season's version are not replaceable, so maybe I will just get new soles!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I've been cutting skins to fit my Shift mounted Mythics.

Has anyone else experienced difficulty locking the brakes out of the way without a boot in place? I've got the ski/walk plate in the right place before anyone asks. On one ski they'll lock, but trigger with the slightest touch - ask my mangled little finger... On the other ski they go into position, but won't lock up unless there is a boot in place - which is obviously a PITA for faffing with skins.

Am I doing something wrong? Or do they all do that Sir?

Edit: resolved, but I am going to leave this here as I deserve whatever abuse is coming.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@IanTr, glad you got it sorted.
I've pinged my little finger on the knuckle a few times when getting skis sorted for skins. I'm not sure how but yes it bloody hurt!
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Anyone had any joy mounting a Shift on BC Orb Freebirds - the guys in my local ski shop set it up with their jig and reckoned they won’t fit, but subsequently had a chat with BC customer support who checked with their tech folks and thought they should with my BSL (322).
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@NeilPratt, fair enough question, but why would you want 800+ grams of binding on a ski like that?
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NeilPratt wrote:
Anyone had any joy mounting a Shift on BC Orb Freebirds - the guys in my local ski shop set it up with their jig and reckoned they won’t fit, but subsequently had a chat with BC customer support who checked with their tech folks and thought they should with my BSL (322).

NeilPratt, No idea why they say it won't fit. My first thought is that the ski is too narrow for the binding but the Orb is 91mm underfoot so that's not the issue. I think that the problem could be the pi$$ poor Salomon jig width so with the standard width feet installed jig won't go down to that ski width. Salomon also supply wide feet with all their jigs to combat this but it's a pain in the neck for techs having to swap the feet all the time. There's also a 'dead spot' ski width which is to wide for the standard feet set installed on their thinnest side but that's still not wide enough for the wide feet etc. The solution is just to borrow the feet off another brand of jig that has wider feet. If the shop can't figure this out then they're idiots and you should go elsewhere.

And HammondRtheChamonixslayer is correct in questioning why you're putting a 890g binding with only one climbing bar height on a sub 1400g ski? I'd be recommending a Superlite 2.0/MTN/Alpinist and certainly nothing heavier than a Rad 2/Tecton/MWerks Kingpin.
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This issue is fore and aft at the toe piece, rather than lateral. I printed out a template on acetate to have a peek myself, and the toepiece is longer than the mounting area of the Orb, so there’s no way it can be mounted within the defined area. I’m guessing, given the BC tech folks are suggesting it’s okay, that the metal mounting plate extends further than what is marked on the top sheet.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
NeilPratt wrote:
This issue is fore and aft at the toe piece, rather than lateral. I printed out a template on acetate to have a peek myself, and the toepiece is longer than the mounting area of the Orb, so there’s no way it can be mounted within the defined area. I’m guessing, given the BC tech folks are suggesting it’s okay, that the metal mounting plate extends further than what is marked on the top sheet.

Ah ok. The issue then is the toe stud location out front but I wouldn't be concerned - just make sure they epoxy the screw in rather than using the usual PVA. In fact after seeing a number of pull-outs from Freebird cores I'd recommend epoxying all of the locations.

I'd be intersted to know why you're going for the Shifts on that ski?
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I’ve largely skied frame bindings in the past, so I guess I see the Shifts as offering a lighter option for the same downhill performance. The Orbs were just a chance bargain that I picked up.
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HammondRtheChamonixslayer! That'll be the day.

@NeilPratt, having laid your hands on a cracking lightish ski like the Orb Freebird they really merit a compatible binding. Jon mentions the Superlite and other excellent lightweight bindings. I have Superlites on Salomon MTN 95's and have done about 24,000m uphill on them this winter, and much more down. They seem tough as old boots and have never been a limiting factor in any descent I have made, unlike me.

You may be a strong as an ox guide type and if so, please disregard.
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Have just returned from a week in resort with a couple of day tours thrown in - followed by a week on the Haute Route. Skied with Shifts mounted on K2 Wayback 96s - driven by Dalbello Lupo 120 AXs.

Really loved the set up - which didn't feel at all heavy even on the big days, and the shifts performed brilliantly - no icing up, easy transitions - and released well on the one occasion when needed.

Hardly used the riser bar and the couteaux have plenty of depth/bite even when on the riser.

Only slight frustration with the set up was the removable tongue on the Lupos - which added a slight faff factor on transitions - but was a known compromise for a boot that will work as well for lift served off-piste as for day tours.

The shifts got lots of admiring comments!!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Nothing beats a bit of peer pressure - after much to and fro’ing with Black Crows tech, including printing out a Shift mounting template on acetate so they could have a look at the mounting position, they recommended that I don’t fit them. I’ve managed to pick up a set of Vipec 12s which will fit the Orb Freebirds, although that still leaves me looking at something a bit lighter to fit the Shifts on...

...and in need of a solid story to expla in to the wife why there are multiple sets of skis she doesn’t recognise kicking about my office
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Does anyone have a link to the shift mounting template?
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You know it makes sense.
http://www.skipass.com/forums/sports/ski/sujet-139966-200.html#3361404

As always, try it on a bit of 4x2 first!
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NeilPratt wrote:


...and in need of a solid story to expla in to the wife why there are multiple sets of skis she doesn’t recognise kicking about my office


Which is why, when buying new skis, the colour has to vaguely resemble existing skis on the rack in the cave......... Laughing
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@KenX, merci
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KenX wrote:
http://www.skipass.com/forums/sports/ski/sujet-139966-200.html#3361404......


@skimottaret, That template is incorrect so do NOT use it as virtually all the dimensions are incorrect as is the position of the boot centre line. If you want a correct template you just have to ask.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@spyderjon, Thanks mate, that would have been a major nightmare using an incorrect template... have emailed you...
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spyderjon wrote:
The only company that retro fit toe tech inserts is CAST in the US. They add tech inserts to non tech boots but AFAIK they will only undertake the work if you're purchasing their own quick release Freetour binding plate/tech toe system (https://casttouring.com/collections/freetour-bindings)....SOLE in Chamonix used to do this conversion but no longer offer it.


Is this still the case ? Does anyone know if there is anywhere that you can get Plug boots modified for tech front inserts? Using my proper boots along with a pair of shifts would be a very nice solution for all round skiing, bring your avi gear and skins and all sorted short skins and retaining performance when skiing on hard snow.

Talking to Dave Norman, one of the Snoworks guys on a chair lift he mentioned that they were gonna get their boots done for next season but I didnt have time to ask him where or by who..
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@skimottaret, honestly if you're skinning in plug boots you may aswell just stick with frame touring bindings - you'll have a miserable enough time on any big ascents in them that the binding probably won't make any appreciable difference!

But surely there must be something amid the current crop of freeride touring boots that'll work for you?
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@skimottaret, not of any help but a couple of weeks ago there was a bloke and his young daughter, clearly on her first or second skinning experience (she was maybe 8 or 9?) and someone, somewhere (it is Chamonix after all) had converted her dinky little Atomic Redster kids race boots to tech inserts (front and rear) - or at least, I'm pretty sure that's not a standard option wink
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