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Bindings - why so many?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I was looking at one mail order ski shop today (can't find it now) and they listed something like 30 different bindings, ranging from under 100 quid to 500+, although the ones over 300 tended to be specialist ones (telemarking etc).

How can one decide?

Not all bindings were orderable with every ski they sold.

I am probably intermediate and looking at buying my own, for 100% piste use.

As a guide, if you buy a pair of skis for say 400 quid, and they come with bindings, wouldn't those bindings be the rock bottom priced ones? But they seem to work just fine.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Cheaper bindings tend to have more plastic, more expensive more metal. Plus if you want to geek out you might develop a preference for one brand over enough. But also DIN is DIN it's normalused for a reason so no reason a cheaper binding shouldn't do the job unless you are hard on gear or putting a lot of days on them.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If you buy separately and at the right time you can get amazing deals. Like, 50% off on really decent kit.

If a pair of ski's comes with bindings it doesnt necessarily mean they are bad. It depends if its a "package deal" or not The difference being, a manufacturer shoving something in for "free" vs. you selecting which binding you want to go with your ski at a special package price.

Based on my experience, I wouldn't have the bindings pre-fitted if you buy online, have them mounted locally.

Edit: I have Marker Griffon and my wife has Marker Squire. We've both done 3 weeks on them from new this year without a single problem. Wife is upper intermediate skier and I've just made it to middle intermediate. I chose Griffons because I'm heavy. We paid about half RRP for them using a combination of deals and discount codes.
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Alternatively...buy the package and have no problems at all. Me and MrHL.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I’d be very surprised if any people have problems with new bindings within 3 weeks of skiing.
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@Peter Stevens, if you buy ski+binding packege from glisshop or Ekosport they will as standard pair the ski with a budget binding and then give a list of options with an additional amount to be paid depending. Naturally as you move up the price scale the binding will be better. Budget v better is largely about the quality of materials being used, and hence their robustness. If you are a fairly light skier or doesn't ski anything to serious or very aggressively, then a budget binding may be perfectly fine. There isn't really a safety issue in terms of release but of course a budget binding will have a shorter life and or more like to bend or break under force.

Buying separately for me doesn't make sense financially or hassle wise IMO.
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1 choice is a good thing.

2 it means I can use different bindings for different things, its cheaper to use some brands than others when your quiver killed in terms of brakes as I use Tyrolia and Salomon for my Q,K'd skis and looks for the non inserted skis.

3 large bugs like me tend to brake 'system bindings / plastic bindings' with ease, I can count on two hands the number I've snapped / sheered off.

4 I like to mount my own bindings as I don't have much faith in shops or top sheet printed guidelines...

5 When your bindings survive a lot longer than your skis its cheaper to invest in the best. (I only tend to use all metal so Look Pivot 18's, Solly 916's and Tyrolia Peak / Attack 18's).
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I don't think i would buy a ski and binding package from a online retailer and get a local shop to mount them, to me that is wasting time and money! if you are quiver killing (one binding shared between many skis) that is totally different.

Hard to beat some of that prices online, i was considering buying a pair of salomon QST's and off loading the binding on here or fleebay (DIY quiverkilling with shift bindings) the skis would have cost me less than £200!
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@Peter Stevens, as an intermediate piste skier best to just get the bindings fitted to skis as a package. No real point in buying separately, although do pay attention to what you are buying.



The first pair of skis I purchased came with bindings attached as in the above photo. The bindings have a piston which apparantly changes the flex in the ski. I have had these skis for 18 years now, and never tried turning the piston on (never investigated the piston and never read anything in the instruction manual which was not given to me)

So I have a new objective next time I go piste skiing, to test out the piston and see what difference it makes.

I have also noticed a piece of covering plastic is missing from one of the bindings. It does not look like it does anything, other than advertise the name of the binding and be a different colour. So I just put some tape over the area to stop snow getting into any gaps.

Bindings are different, but the main adjustment is to the DIN setting. I applied some WD40 PTFE lubricant to some of the areas this year, and wiggled things around. I usually do a binding test once a year or more frequently. This pdf file might help

www.bobski.com/safety/french_binding_system_self_test.pdf

Another thing I did not realise for a long time was that there was a din setting at the back of the ski binding as well as the toe piece. The toe pice DIN setting is obvious, the heel piece DIN setting is underneath the clip and can be hidden. Luckily the front and rear DIN settings were the same on both skis, probably set by an expert binding assessor in Verbier when I last had my skis serviced other than by myself.

I find the self test very difficult to achieve, although I get very close to releasing both at the toe and the rear. I know they release if I fall, and so I think I just have them slightly tighter than an intermediate but less tight than a downhill racer DIN setting.
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Quote:
I only tend to use all metal so Look Pivot 18's, Solly 916's and Tyrolia Peak / Attack 18's


I looked those up, and they seem to be mostly plastic, and/or very old products.

But perhaps what matters is whether the bits which hold the boots are made of metal.

I rented some skis with (what looks like, on google images) MXT12 Bindings and they worked really well. The skis were probably 500 quid skis (looking at some reviews).

This may sound dumb / noob but one thing which seems important is the ease with which one can release the binding, either by poking a pole into the back part, or even by pressing with one's hand. If one has fallen over this can be tricky. Some of the bindings look like poking a pole into the back end might be quite difficult. Obviously once one leg is out you can release the other one easily.
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Peter Stevens wrote:
Quote:
I only tend to use all metal so Look Pivot 18's, Solly 916's and Tyrolia Peak / Attack 18's


I looked those up, and they seem to be mostly plastic, and/or very old products.

But perhaps what matters is whether the bits which hold the boots are made of metal.

I rented some skis with (what looks like, on google images) MXT12 Bindings and they worked really well. The skis were probably 500 quid skis (looking at some reviews).

This may sound dumb / noob but one thing which seems important is the ease with which one can release the binding, either by poking a pole into the back part, or even by pressing with one's hand. If one has fallen over this can be tricky. Some of the bindings look like poking a pole into the back end might be quite difficult. Obviously once one leg is out you can release the other one easily.


Don't confuse paint colours with plastic, the peak / attack 18's are pretty much solid magnesium, the only plastic on the others is a small part of the heal / brake. Pivot 18's are still in production as new, Peak's are now Attacks but I've got Metal Sollys from the 90's which are still going strong.

The ease of in and out is relative, the Solly / Tyrolias are a lot easier to get into if you have a powder bail, the Looks have the best elasticity of any binding, your far less likley to eject without warning if you flex and rebound in the bumps etc.

I'm not the average end user, I've broken a few pairs of system / demo bindings (I snapped a pair of marker jester demos clean of a pair of skis pushing them a bit too hard as the demo plate cracked under the ski with the flex). I've torn the toes and heals of Solly / Tyrolia demos too many times.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Peter Stevens wrote:
I was looking at one mail order ski shop today (can't find it now) and they listed something like 30 different bindings, ranging from under 100 quid to 500+, although the ones over 300 tended to be specialist ones (telemarking etc).

How can one decide?


I faced this dilema buying new skis back in the summer. You can find loads of reviews/advise/opinons on skis but it all goes a bit quiet when it comes to bindings - other than a set of threads for each binding with some people saying they aren't very good/the rest saying they have them and they are great.

I ended up going for Marker Griffon 13IDs because:
- They support all the new boot soles, so I should snooker or limit myself when I replace my boots.
- They were middle of the road for price.

Other than that it was really a case of closing my eyes and throwing a dart!
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@Peter Stevens, with all due respect I don't think lord's usage is the same as yours.

And I think Mit's is more appropriate although I confess to having no idea what he is referring to when he talks about new boot soles. I have just bought some new boots and there was no mention of the soles being different.

But yes, go middle of the road and throw a dart or two Very Happy snowHead Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The Marker Griffon 13ID looks good... how much of it is plastic?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Peter Stevens,

Quote:

I am probably intermediate and looking at buying my own, for 100% piste use.



As all bindings are certified to release, you have to make your choice based on other criteria. As you description does not suggest any off-piste or ski touring, you can look a little lower down the catalogues and save yourself some money...perhaps something like this..https://www.marker.net/en/201819/products/bindings/pisteall-mountain/110-tp-4090/

Have you already bought your skis? Pretty much all skis for piste use come with a plate to mount the binding on --- which will only work with the binding designed for it (for example Salomon will only work with Salomon etc) If you let us know what skis you have we can point you in a better direction.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
That's something I am looking at too.

Rossignol Experience 88 Ti
Fischer F18

perhaps...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Layne some alpine boots are coming with rockered sole (wtr or grip walk) for easier walking and you need compatible bindings for these new soles. Some bindings are compatible with traditional alpine soles, wtr and grip walk such as the salomon warden MNC.
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Pick up some tyrollia attacks - either the 13 or the at compatible 14s if you're worried/clueless on boots. Griffons are notoriously shite (can confirm) and other more durable options (sths 16s/p18s etc) are undoubtedly overkill if you're having to ask the question. Would steer away from attack 11s/squires unless you are or have the body type of a small child.
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@Peter Stevens, Both those skis come with bindings .... You might want take a trip to your local ski shop (if you have one), and chat with them. You may even find their prices are not so bad...
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WASHOUT wrote:
@Layne some alpine boots are coming with rockered sole (wtr or grip walk) for easier walking and you need compatible bindings for these new soles. Some bindings are compatible with traditional alpine soles, wtr and grip walk such as the salomon warden MNC.


Wardens would be my choice as a fit and forget binding for any boot I could own, I've demoed a lot of skis with them on and never managed to break a pair (which is quite an achievement) the power transfer is nice, they adjust well and they click in well. Personally I'd have them over any Marker binding.
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Quote:
Both those skis come with bindings .... You might want take a trip to your local ski shop (if you have one), and chat with them. You may even find their prices are not so bad


Probably similar to buying it at a resort Smile

I thought perhaps they came with choices of bindings. One site I looked at showed various ordering options.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
But also DIN is DIN


It is indeed, it's the Deutsches Institut für Normung (German Institute of Standardization)
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@lordf I can only agree! The Warden 13 is awesome!
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Quote:

I thought perhaps they came with choices of bindings. One site I looked at showed various ordering options.


If a ski has a plate made for a specific binding manufacturer then only theirs will fit. If you looked at a "flat" ski, then you are free to choose whatever you like. Given your previous comments..
Quote:


I am probably intermediate and looking at buying my own, for 100% piste use.


choice of ski binding (if you have a choice) will have little on no impact on the performance and your enjoyment of your new skis. Bindings are made to adhere to a set of standards (DIN) to regulate release, so in terms of function for you there is not very much to differentiate them. If you get into more specialist areas of skiing - eg Ski touring, then it get's a bit more complicated, but for your intended use pretty much adult binding will do.

Do you know what DIN setting you have had your bindings set on in the past?
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No idea, sorry.
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@Peter Stevens, So what is your weight and shoe size. Also are you older than 50?
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80kg, shoe size not sure. 55.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Peter Stevens, Cool. As you are not unusually large or small, any adult binding would be suitable. If you order skis with an integrated binding (the Rossi comes with Look Nx12 for example), they will be absolutley fine and fit for purpose. I would not spend more than you have to at this stage --- when you have more experience and have a better idea of what you want you will have the info you need to make more of a choice. I do think a trip to your local ski shop and a chat with the folks there would be a good use of your time. Do you have boots yet?
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You know it makes sense.
Many thanks.

Actually the reviews of the Rossignol seem to talk about "expert level" all the time. I am now looking at the Volkl RTM 79 which also comes with bindings, which look perfectly ok.
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