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Changes to Ski Club Off Piste policy

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
davidof wrote:

To an naive outsider like me, that appears to be the case unless someone more knowledgeable can shed light on the dispute between the SCGB and French Authorities?


It is, but the cynic in me sees it as somewhat more complicated than that. It would be fair to say the FSF is highly protectionist in nature and spends a great deal of it's time and energy trying to block anyone else operating in France. They have won numerous cases in French courts only for them to be overturned when it gets to the ECJ as they are clearly running fowl of EU legislation. With the trend for more people going off-piste they felt that their was a market opportunity if they could force out the SCGB and possibly others. So far they have won rulings in French courts. No surprise their they usually do. I am not aware that the ECJ has ruled on this yet and till they do rulings in the French courts count for little.

Most sports clubs have membership fees. Everything from a your local bowling club, to The Scottish Ski Club (membership fees for this year £46 for an individual) and in addition to activities in Scotland organize an annual club holiday to the continent. The Ski Club of Ireland are similar, what we have is the French being nothing more than their protectionist usual self.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jabuzzard wrote:
It would be fair to say the ESF is highly protectionist in nature and spends a great deal of it's time and energy trying to block anyone else operating in France. They have won numerous cases in French courts only for them to be overturned when it gets to the ECJ as they are clearly running fowl of EU legislation.


You could say that ESF are behaving in a poultry manner....... Toofy Grin
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Davina Goldballs, I find it appalling that once again you have to post the names of the victims of the Verbier accidents. I said to you before on this forum when you did this, that we have no idea who follows Snowheads and the nearest and dearest of those who died may well be reading this. It is a long time since 1989 but what if a son or daughter should read your insinuations? It is perhaps one thing to mention the incidents but definitely unnecessary to name the victims.

As you are well aware the Swiss courts exonerated the ski club leaders. That hopefully may have brought some form of closure to some people, but by you still implying there was negligence, you may be disturbing that closure process.

You question why the 2007 accident dragged on for five years, implying that the Swiss authorities were convinced of guilt. One of the reasons it went on for so long, is that it took forever to get witness statements, which is understandable as ski club members come from all over the place. I think it was terrible for all concerned that it went on for so long, but my understanding is that it was all because of Swiss procedure and that included the subsequent appeal.

When you blagged your way into the 2017 ski club AGM, I was surprised that afterwards you suggested that you and I go for a drink to which I agreed. During that conversation I made it absolutely clear to you that when the accident in Les Arcs occurred, the ski club leader who was there was not on ski club duty, yet you drag this up again, which again shows how you manipulate information and shows no consideration for the person involved who as we know definitely is a member of Snowheads.

How low will you go in pursuit of your sad agenda?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
davidof wrote:
Davina Goldballs wrote:


Well, yes, remuneration seems to be the crux of it. The French authorities (not surprisingly) seem to view the post-2001 SCGB as a commercial organisation



To an naive outsider like me, that appears to be the case unless someone more knowledgeable can shed light on the dispute between the Ski Club and French Authorities?

I think being based in resort all season is obviously different from the club model where club groups come and go and are often only present on certain days. From my knowledge of French Ski clubs the "remuneration" thing is taken very seriously with leaders no even accepting a being bought a beer in a bar at the end of the day.

Certainly if you are doing anything professionally there are higher legal standards in force in most jurisdictions.


The French prosecutor decided the Ski Club was a 'corporate entity' and therefore all Leaders were employees because of the level of control the Club had over their daily activities. The French authorities are ok with French clubs but the Ski Club of Great Britain were a load of British people coming to their country and doing things the ESF didn't like. It was all politically charged and the foreigners were always going to be up against it. Right to appeal to the ECJ was denied by the Paris court.

That's the French State looking after the interests of its citizens, something the UK should have done more of. It's a big part of the reason why I voted to leave the EU.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
...
It's a big part of the reason why I voted to leave the EU.


Impeccable.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Gerry wrote:


The French prosecutor decided the Ski Club was a 'corporate entity' and therefore all Leaders were employees because of the level of control the Club had over their daily activities.


Ok, thanks Gerry, I'd forgotten all the details.

The missus tells me that it is going to get more difficult to appeal stuff even out of the local alpine courts in the future so I think things are going to get more protectionist in France. The Brits are really minnows in a shark pool in the EU.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
davidof wrote:
Gerry wrote:


The French prosecutor decided the Ski Club was a 'corporate entity' and therefore all Leaders were employees because of the level of control the Club had over their daily activities.


Ok, thanks Gerry, I'd forgotten all the details.

The missus tells me that it is going to get more difficult to appeal stuff even out of the local alpine courts in the future so I think things are going to get more protectionist in France. The Brits are really minnows in a shark pool in the EU.


You obviously know more about this that me but my observation has been that local judges are influenced by local politics. Is that a fair statement? My evidence comes in the form of legal advice which said that only the higher court in Paris would be impartial. If this is even remotely true, then France doesn't have a AAA legal system.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Gerry wrote:

You obviously know more about this that me but my observation has been that local judges are influenced by local politics. Is that a fair statement? My evidence comes in the form of legal advice which said that only the higher court in Paris would be impartial. If this is even remotely true, then France doesn't have a AAA legal system.


I assume the person who gave you that advice knew what they were talking about.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
davidof wrote:
Gerry wrote:

You obviously know more about this that me but my observation has been that local judges are influenced by local politics. Is that a fair statement? My evidence comes in the form of legal advice which said that only the higher court in Paris would be impartial. If this is even remotely true, then France doesn't have a AAA legal system.


I assume the person who gave you that advice knew what they were talking about.


Indeed. Apparently there were two main problems, first was no being a local and second was not even being French. I ask you, in a leading EU member state?
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Gerry wrote:
... . Apparently there were two main problems, first was no being a local and second was not even being French. I ask you, in a leading EU member state?

I'm not sure what you mean. What does that have to do with the EU, precisely?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@philwig, all EU citizens have the right to a far trial.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Leaving the EU will just make things worse
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
On the rocks wrote:
Leaving the EU will just make things worse


With right to appeal blocked, I don’t see how things could be worse.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I was thinking wider than Scgb leaders’ narrow interest to all professional British Ski instructors and seasonal workers
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Gerry wrote:
On the rocks wrote:
Leaving the EU will just make things worse


With right to appeal blocked, I don’t see how things could be worse.
Not having the right to provide your services at all. No doubt it's frustrating, and the system should work better than it does. But giving up those rights won't make it any better.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:
Gerry wrote:
On the rocks wrote:
Leaving the EU will just make things worse


With right to appeal blocked, I don’t see how things could be worse.
Not having the right to provide your services at all. No doubt it's frustrating, and the system should work better than it does. But giving up those rights won't make it any better.


Those 'rights' were just all part of the great EU lie. See davisof's comment about the French justice system denying appeals.
snow report     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Gerry wrote:
Those 'rights' were just all part of the great EU lie.
Not really.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
On the rocks wrote:
I was thinking wider than Scgb leaders’ narrow interest to all professional British Ski instructors and seasonal workers


Skiing is just a hobby for me and I have more important things to consider.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
So do all of us, my skiing depends on European Integrated supply chains and those of all my manufacturing industry clients who pay my wages
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
On the rocks wrote:
So do all of us, my skiing depends on European Integrated supply chains and those of all my manufacturing industry clients who pay my wages


Well then, looks like you're in the s hit.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Yep, Unless..........
snow conditions     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Gerry wrote:


Those 'rights' were just all part of the great EU lie. See davisof's comment about the French justice system denying appeals.


The idea in making appeals more difficult is to reduce costs, not to target foreign claims. It should affect everyone, equally Happy
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
davidof wrote:
Gerry wrote:


Those 'rights' were just all part of the great EU lie. See davisof's comment about the French justice system denying appeals.


The idea in making appeals more difficult is to reduce costs, not to target foreign claims. It should affect everyone, equally Happy


Agreed but what you have there isn't a triple-A rated system of justice.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Gerry wrote:
... Those 'rights' were just all part of the great EU lie. ..

I think you can't have it both ways, though.
Either the evil EU was telling us all what to do, or it's a "great lie".
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
We already have a (very) long running thread for DG to tell us how everything the SCGB does is wrong and Gerry to tell him he is wrong. We do not need another in our Off Piste space.
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