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Les Gets restaurant owner shot by hunter

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dave of the Marmottes, He's watched The Deer Hunter too many times perhaps ? Toofy Grin
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It interesting that, in Europe, there are few opportunities for people to legally hunt unless they have passed a hunting test - such as the Jagdschein in Germany. Despite the compulsory requirement for hunters to demonstrate competence, there are numerous hunting accidents each year.

In the UK, there has been some political pressure (so far deflected) for hunters, particularly of deer, to demonstrate their competence before being allowed to hunt, by passing tests - DSC1 and DSC2, the theoretical and practical tests for deer stalkers administered by DMQ. The problem with such tests, as with the driving test, is that they only prove that an individual can meet the required criteria on the day. That is no guarantee that they will continue to do so in the future (again compare with the driving test and driving performance in the UK).

As an assessor for DMQ I have tested many candidates for both DSC1 and DSC2. There are quite a number of those who I had to pass as they had met the criteria on the day, who I would never let near any land I had any responsibility for, as I doubted their willingness to comply with safety and legal requirements. However, having said that, I am aware of only one serious incident in Scotland, where some years ago an estate stalker was shot up the backside by a foreign client who had disobeyed his instructions. The stalker lived to tell the tale. So, hunting in the UK, despite the absence of (or possibly because of) compulsory testing is safer than on the continent.

However, in the same way as firearms legislation banning handguns has had no impact on their illegal use, but politicians believe they have done the right thing (!), I fear we will eventually have compulsory hunting tests here too..
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
In Germany (and possibly Austria and elsewhere), you even need to have lessons and take an exam to get a fishing licence.
And kids are only allowed to fish unlicensed with a licensed adult.

So not at all surprising that hunting is also so strictly monitored.

Only saw the one hide in action yesterday. But huge wide open meadow bounded by forest, and a main bike path (as in one for commuting, not sick to the power of rad MTBing) going right past about 100m away from the hide. All of the "danger of death" signs blocking bits of the forest are for the logging activities. Although I am curious about one bit of forest that has "danger of explosions" signs round it. (edit: should have googled before - it's WW2 bombs that are apparently only in the trees and not on the paths)
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A tragedy. Terrible.

I have the DSC 2 deer stalking qualification here in the UK. Although testing isn't mandatory here, the last time I checked shooting (hunting) in the UK was statistically safer (in terms of injury rate to self or third party) than golf (and God knows where skiing ranks). In the same vein, the Scandinavians, Germans, Austrians and Swiss are avid hunters and also seem to be very safe. Seems to be more to do with attitude than tests per se.

But France... well, I don't wish to engage in clumsy stereotyping, or blaming the decent majority, but a friend who moved to rural France some time ago had been telling me for years that a minority of the local hunters are downright scary - and he should know, because he's an experienced (and very safe) hunter himself.
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This is a truly terrible accident, our thoughts and prayers are with the family of this poor man.

This happened 6 miles ( as the crow flies) from where we live, and as we moved over here many years go with our young family to open a restaurant, it resonates with me.

There is clamour for the president to suspend hunting, but a ban on hunting does not need to come from Macron.
Hunting can be prohibited in a Department by the Prefect, or in a Commune by the Mayor.
(Montriond has already imposed a ban).

On the thread called La Chasse, I gave an example as to how conflicted local Mayors can be on this.
On the one hand, they want to uphold local heritage and do not want to be seen as stopping Savoyard traditions at the behest of outsiders, be they from Paris, or beyond. Nobody wants to be told what to do by a bunch of people who do not understand, and who have no connection to the region.

On the other hand, they are looking to expand the range of activities available ( hiking / MTB trails ) so that the resorts can continue to be viable as the skiing seasons become more unpredictable.

The paradox is that were a mayor to go out on a limb and ban hunting in the commune at weekends, it could attract more tourists to the trails and resorts, but at the same time lose votes with the locals, and jeopardise their re-election.

While we see hunters strolling around with un-cocked guns, or carrying bottles, or abandoning their dogs at the end of the day leaving them on mountain roads to find their own way home, not all hunters are bad people.

One local hunter was employed by the commune as a school bus driver, colleting and rerturning the young children to remote homes no matter how bad the weather. ( At the time, the school was small - just like in the film Etre et Avoir ). He and his brother are two of the friendliest, kindly people you could meet. He loves the children of the village ( of ALL nationalities ), and during the world cup final when the village united to watch the World cup final on a big screen in the square, he spent a lot of the time with the children ( who are now young adults 16-19) he used to ferry around, and you could see how fond they were of him and vice versa. He has never left the valley, and for him hunting is a tradition & a thing to do on weekends with his friends.

Whilst the morals of shooting at defenceless animals is a different debate, many hunters are responsible citizens, who do not drink, do not shoot indiscriminately, obey safety protocols, hunting locations and times.

Whilst the hunting near us ( in the woods over the road from our house, and also behind our house) frightens the bejeasus out of me, and I would like to see it restricted to prohibit it at weekends, I understand why some mayors will resists this measure, unless it is forced upon them by the Prefect or Parliament, or President.
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@WindOfChange, I can see the dilema however if the local Mayor is looking to grow tourism in his area and attract VTT/ hiking etc he isn't ever going to do it when there's a bunch of hunters firing off at random at everything that moves is he? I've personally no desire to go bike riding where locals kill just about everything and wander around in a drunken state, gun-ready on a Sunday after eating a casserole full of blackbirds and song-thrushes, and the local mayor turns a deaf-one because these people re-elect him/ her and he/ she does not want to rock the boat.

I've witnessed hunting, the hunters and their dogs in rural France in many southern and SW areas and it's put me off going back in summer/ autumn. This almost obsession with protecting local tradition, being distrustful of Paris and beyond, and dislike of incomers affecting their rural lives is at odds with modern day thinking imo. If it works for yourselves in that area fine, but it'd not for me, the countryside should be for all, not just for those with the biggest gun and fiercest dogs. I personally can't see the attraction of a countryside devoid of wildlife, birds or access simply because of the need to protect a rural, local way of life, and because it's always been thus.
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@Markymark29, Agree totally.
It all goes against the grain of modern day thinking.
Unfortunately, our Mayor is the complete antithesis of this.
He lives in the past, is deeply xenophobic, and believes it is his role to uphold Savoyard traditions.
Most people including the locals just think he is a bully and a dick.
The problem is that nobody else stands in the local election, so he gets re-elected.
Even though he is a bully he does not have the balls to stand up to the hunters.
So alas we cannot enjoy the environment in which we live at weekends in the Autumn.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I work for a French business owned by a very prolific local family and my partner is French, again from an old local family. I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks that hunting should be allowed around here on the weekends.

It's a tragedy, countless lives ruined and horrid to see our lovely little resort in the news for the wrong reasons.
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Looks like tragic as this event it is it could be a catalyst for change......surely the mayor needs to respect the views of all his region not just the hunters, maybe time for a change in thinking and vote of no confidence, however you do this in that type of environ......good luck to all involved, must be pretty unpleasant not being able to access the country for fear of being injured or worse.
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Terrible tragedy Crying or Very sad As I understand it, he was wearing brightly coloured clothing too. The hunting season around here started 3 weeks ago - Sundays & Wednesdays. I would never go walking in the woods on those days. Last winter, I gather 25 people died in Liguria from hunting accidents. A couple of weeks ago a 22 year old hunter from the next valley died.
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It's very different from actual stalking, where you take your shots extremely carefully after much preperation. The type of hunting whereby groups put up animals to be shot as they break cover carries a lot of inherent risks.
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Might be time to tone down the grief-signaling...

Lots of folks, including his mom, saying the dead biker was a bad dood.
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If true then karma had a field day.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Whitegold, we have a legal system to deal with crime, not random shoooting in the woods.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Edited - stories are out there, dodgy sources, but i retract my statement


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 17-10-18 9:28; edited 1 time in total
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That is a real hatchet job by the Mail on a man that cannot sue. So mum uses the C word....nice. The Sun also has the story, but naming the "victim" as his sister Shocked

Whitegold is not spreading rumour, he is sharing stories that are published by national newspapers. The guy was never charged.

Sympathies to those that loved him
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
“Fled to France” where of course the British police aren’t able to pursue him with warrants for his arrest, especially as he was living under an assumed identity so that nobody in the local area knew who he was and he studiously avoided posting on social media for fear of being brought to justice.

Nothing more than bullshit measured in column inches.

Not the finest day for some of the murkier bits of the British media. Family splits are sad to see, especially when close relatives are happy to trash talk about a recently killed son or brother. I didn’t know the man who was killed so have no idea about his character, although I do know a couple of people who did know him and they seem shocked and genuinely saddened by this event. But whatever the case that’s a horrible hatchet job by the British tabloids, no doubt generating lots of clicks for their advertising sales.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@rob@rar, agreed, the articles are all terrible, like a string vest.
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Articles also mention his father who says the rape allegations are a result of a longstanding family feud. But they also mention his ex-girlfriend who says that he served time for breaking her cheekbone/eye-socket.

Difficult to know what to believe, and all the points made above about the merits or problems of hunting are all still valid: unfortunately we can't rely on karma to choose the victims of hunting accidents.
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https://www.morzinesourcemagazine.com/a-statement-from-jo-watts/
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@MeMyselfandI, thanks for the link. Wonder if our estimable rags will provide an opportunity for those people who loved Marc Sutton to put their side of his story? I guess if it provides more clickbait they'll write anything.

Condolences to the family and friends of Marc Sutton who loved him and will miss him.
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MeMyselfandI wrote:
https://www.morzinesourcemagazine.com/a-statement-from-jo-watts/


Good link, thnx
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@rob@rar, saw the Sun article getting my haircut today and they had the gall to call the shooter "the marksman" who "gunned down" the guy...
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@rob@rar, +1
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skimottaret wrote:
@rob@rar, saw the Sun article getting my haircut today and they had the gall to call the shooter "the marksman" who "gunned down" the guy...
It's shameful. They won't retract, they won't do an alternative article, and the man's reputation is posthumously trashed.
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OMG. This story goes from bad to worse. Unforgiveable. Sad
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OMG. I can't believe what the gutter press will print. Dreadful.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
"They won't be so cocky when we shoot them" - the shocking statement by a local hunter before a 23 year old student was fatally wounded walking on a public path near Grenoble.



https://www.ledauphine.com/faits-divers/2018/10/18/etudiant-tue-par-balle-en-2015-un-chasseur-renvoye-devant-la-justice
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
https://www.victimeschasse.fr/type-dincident/personne-tuee/marc-sutton-74-haute-savoie-personne-tuee-velo-13-10-2018/

Quote:
Name: Marc Sutton
Age: 34
Address: 74 Haute-Savoie
Date: 13.10.2018
Incident: Person killed
Activity: Velo

Unfortunately, Marc is not here to tell his own story. He was killed by a hunter; As he was riding down a well-known bike path from Montriond, Morzine, Marc was fatally shot by a 22-year-old hunter. Marc wore a bright colored helmet and the visibility was 100%.

Marc was enthusiastic, enterprising, dynamic, adventurous, athletic, and a chef in his professional life. He was our friend. This homicide devastated the community of Morzine.

Marc loved nature, he felt good in the French mountains. He was very well integrated with the local community. He was happy to collect wild mushrooms and his knowledge of the local flora allowed him to create new recipes for his recently opened Wild Beets restaurant. He was eager to go to the mountains, be on his bike or snowboard and enjoy life at every moment. He loved France, he loved long walks and picnics with his friends and family. He was well aware of the practice of hunting.

This young man, full of life, went for a bike ride and never came home.

What happened to him can happen to any of us.

The 22-year-old hunter, charged with manslaughter aggravated by a deliberate breach of security, said his shot was aimed at a boar that "fell at his feet". The young age of this hunter, the fact that he fired with such a powerful weapon in a place accessible to all, that the whole area of ​​the huntwas not clearly defined: all this indicates a more general problem related to the absence regulatory and security procedures.

Some rules could have been put in place to prevent Marc's death. Of course, it's too late for Marc, but if his story can save other lives, we may be able to make sense of it.


I notice the local hunts are taking security more seriously following this death, about time.
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